Battlestar Galactica (spoilers/speculation)

[Yegolev]

Why does anyone still have razor blades?

[Kitsune]

We'll see what's what next year.  If the Vorlons pop up in the story, Starbuck isn't the fifth, she got saved by them, and I gathered from people more into the show than I that the creator said he did mean to have that super-powerful third species involved in the show, just not the stupid 'Satan shows up to fuck with humans' plotline.  If no Vorlons, then she's the fifth.

And if she is the fifth, that whole secret is going to be blown real fast the instant they go back to Galactica, because you know the first words from everyones' mouths are gonna be, 'So, uh, Starbuck.  Great to see you back and all, but hey, didn't you explode a few thousand light-years from here?  Maybe you'd like to explain that?  In a manner that covers how we found you in a place full of Cylons?'

[bhodi]

Yeah. 9 Months. Fuck this show, I won't care by then.

[Lantyssa]

Starbuck was gripping the eject lever in some of the scenes.  Since she was chasing a raider, even if she was the only one to see it, she can claim it scooped her up after ejecting.

If she is the fifth though, encountering all her sisters in the surrounding fleet will be the giveaway.  (Same with the others.)

[Lum]

The Pegasus was able to manufacture new Vipers, so crafting razors and uniforms is probably somewhere within Galactica's capability.

Also, the BSG Freespace mod demo is out. It looks pretty sweet.

http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61591&postcount=1

[MrHat]

Starbuck was gripping the eject lever in some of the scenes.  Since she was chasing a raider, even if she was the only one to see it, she can claim it scooped her up after ejecting.

If she is the fifth though, encountering all her sisters in the surrounding fleet will be the giveaway.  (Same with the others.)

But where did she get the new viper?

[Abagadro]

It was actually an old-style viper if my memory serves. I believe it has been stated a few times that the Cyclons captured a lot of equipment when they wiped out humanity.

[MrHat]

Eh, I'm going w/ Head-Starbuck.

[Nevermore]

It was actually an old-style viper if my memory serves. I believe it has been stated a few times that the Cyclons captured a lot of equipment when they wiped out humanity.

She always flew an old-style viper.  She didn't get upgraded to a shiny new one like daddy's boy did.

[Jayce]

Head-Starbuck is intriguing.

The Cylons also have Raptors, as they established a while back (when they brought back Hera IIRC).

[HaemishM]

The Raptor they brought Hera back on is the same raptor Athena/Boomer took out when she ran over to the base star in the first place.

[Lantyssa]

I didn't pay attention at the time.  Was there a call-sign printed on the side of her viper?

There could be several explainations depending upon how they decide to write it.  If my guess about which cylons were in those ships is correct, it was either a captured ship from the original war or one they fabricated/grew more recently for her.

[Yegolev]

I didn't pay attention at the time.  Was there a call-sign printed on the side of her viper?

I am going to rewatch the end to verify, but I seem to remember it was unusually clean.

[Jayce]

The Raptor they brought Hera back on is the same raptor Athena/Boomer took out when she ran over to the base star in the first place.

Athena had Helo shoot her to make that trip.

[Evil Elvis]

Eh, I'm going w/ Head-Starbuck.

[HaemishM]

The Raptor they brought Hera back on is the same raptor Athena/Boomer took out when she ran over to the base star in the first place.

Athena had Helo shoot her to make that trip.

D'OH. You're right about that. I must have made up the part where Athena steals a ship, because as of the season finale, it's apparently so easy to steal a goddamn ship, that a disgraced pariah son of the Admiral that everyone knows not only quit his commission but defended humanity's most hated man could waltz into the flight deck and take a ship in the middle of a huge fight.

It's a goddamn wonder humanity made it to the 3rd season.

[Lantyssa]

They made it because the cylons wanted them to.

[Ironwood]

Um.

Tyrol made a ship from spit and baling wire.  A high tech stealth ship.  Is it such a stretch to think the cyclons can't put a raptor together ?


(also has anyone else noticed that the lead singer from the killers is just a young, thin version of the Chief ?  Strange.  He must be a cylon.)

[Roac]

it's apparently so easy to steal a goddamn ship, that a disgraced pariah son of the Admiral that everyone knows not only quit his commission but defended humanity's most hated man could waltz into the flight deck and take a ship in the middle of a huge fight.

Lee: I need a ship.
Guy: You're not an officer anymore.  Ya'know, regulations and all...
Lee: There's tons of Cylons out there looking to wipe everyone out, and I'm the best pilot here.  Your life, or your regulations?
Guy: *tosses the keys*

[HaemishM]

They should have played that scene. It wouldn't have made much sense, but better sense than what we got.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that "bonus scene" they showed at the end of episodes was a retarded thing to do? I mean, it isn't like having the bonus scene shown took the show over the 1 hour time frame, it fit right in. So why the fuck not just put it in the show where it's supposed to go? Oh right, to keep the punters watching the commercials after the show is over.

Fucking advertising.

[Roac]

Also, am I the only one who thinks that "bonus scene" they showed at the end of episodes was a retarded thing to do? I mean, it isn't like having the bonus scene shown took the show over the 1 hour time frame, it fit right in. So why the fuck not just put it in the show where it's supposed to go? Oh right, to keep the punters watching the commercials after the show is over.

Yes for the advertising motive, but it's also not really long enough to stand on its own.  At least, they haven't been so far.  Doesn't matter to me much though, since I'm staying on to watch Dresden (having likely mised the first run) anyway.

[Kitsune]

Why the hell would you want to watch Dresden?  That show is absolute shit compared to the books, and the books aren't reaching new heights in fiction to start with.  Although, in its defense, trying to condense a novel into an hour of TV is pretty much a lost cause from the get-go.

[Roac]

Why the hell would you want to watch Dresden? 

Because it comes on after Galactica.  That's really the only reason.  I admit to watching it, but I'm not going to defend it; it aspires to mediocrity.  Dresden is the best character on the show, and he is terribly flat, and the plot is very disjointed.  Reading the background on wiki helped put together what all is going on, but the background has been introduced in the show poorly.  The new Dr. Who is better than this.  Heroes is better than this.  But neither is showing on Sci-Fi Sunday evenings.  With Atlantis starting soon and Galactica on break for a year, I'll probably drop off watching it before long.

[Nevermore]

It makes me sad that a show with good, solid writing and well rounded characters like Blade wasn't renewed while a show like the Dresden Files gets to exist*.  The premise behind Dresden is interesting enough but the characters are one-dimensional and boring, the dialog is horrendous and the writing in general is just plain bad.

*Yes I know, different networks.  But still.

[HaemishM]

I don't think Dresden is that bad, but it really, REALLY could use someone better to put the script pieces together. I can tell there's a lot of character history and interaction we aren't getting, and lots of the continuity seems to be inconsistent from week to week. It definitely feels like it aspires to be a typical, cable, monster-of-the-week show, but I feel like it could be more than that.

[Yegolev]

Good foundation, needs more Raymond Chandler and less Peter Parker.

[Riggswolfe]

Why the hell would you want to watch Dresden?  That show is absolute shit compared to the books, and the books aren't reaching new heights in fiction to start with.  Although, in its defense, trying to condense a novel into an hour of TV is pretty much a lost cause from the get-go.

Maybe they ought to do what Dexter did on showtime. It took a book and turned it into a (short) season. The book was padded with some sideplots and side characters were more developed but it actually worked really well.

[Roac]

I don't think Dresden is that bad, but it really, REALLY could use someone better to put the script pieces together. I can tell there's a lot of character history and interaction we aren't getting, and lots of the continuity seems to be inconsistent from week to week. It definitely feels like it aspires to be a typical, cable, monster-of-the-week show, but I feel like it could be more than that.

There is a ton of background.  If you watch the show, you really need to read the wiki stuff on it (or the books, although I haven't read them so can't comment on their quality).  There's a ton of stuff they could do with the show, and the background of the IP is done well enough that they could've headed in any number of directions.  But yeah, they decided to just do monster of the week.  Magic use isn't thought out well at all either, to the point that you can just fill in the blank with "deus ex" for pages of any script.  Neither do the same solutions work from week to week. 

But, it's still good enough to entertain me for an hour while I mess on the PC.  For now anyway.

[Kitsune]

The books aren't literary masterpieces of our generation by any means, but they are enjoyable reads.  And they do have characters who behave consistently (if not rationally) and a very clearly-defined scope of exactly what ol' Harry can do with magic, what the relationships between him and the other supernatural groups are, etc.  While in the show, he can just do whatever the hell he wants with magic, the other characters relationships with him change in every show, and many other things that show signs of very bad writing.

[Johny Cee]

I don't think Dresden is that bad, but it really, REALLY could use someone better to put the script pieces together. I can tell there's a lot of character history and interaction we aren't getting, and lots of the continuity seems to be inconsistent from week to week. It definitely feels like it aspires to be a typical, cable, monster-of-the-week show, but I feel like it could be more than that.

There is a ton of background.  If you watch the show, you really need to read the wiki stuff on it (or the books, although I haven't read them so can't comment on their quality).  There's a ton of stuff they could do with the show, and the background of the IP is done well enough that they could've headed in any number of directions.  But yeah, they decided to just do monster of the week.  Magic use isn't thought out well at all either, to the point that you can just fill in the blank with "deus ex" for pages of any script.  Neither do the same solutions work from week to week. 

But, it's still good enough to entertain me for an hour while I mess on the PC.  For now anyway.

I think the object in Dresden is to keep it bland while you throw backstory at viewers,  and before you know it you want to watch it.  I had the same reaction to this as to SG1.  Bland away team stuff for a while,  and they snuck a storyline up on you.  Before you know it,  you're watching the reruns to see the marginal increases in story,  even though you expect standard away team type stuff.

It's interesting enough on a night of TV where nothing else is even remotely worth watching at the time.  HBO doesn't count,  since only a tiny minority of people subscribe to it,  and they subscribe to it for the purpose of watching their Rome or Deadwood or Sopranos or etc.

The problem with Firefly is they threw story at you in big bold letters,  and then dragged their feet on actually dealing with any storyline.  I watched the DVDs (aggressive pricing for the win),  and I was getting pissed at how little story was told when they made a big deal about STORY ARC being important.  What,  two episodes tops had any significant story progression?

It's the same thing dragging down BSG.  At this point,  most regular viewers are pissed when they don't get their dose of story/battle set piece and get yet another character based episode.


In my opinion,  Whedon's major problem isn't network execs it's his own pretensions and ego.  Firefly's schedule got fucked with after he started playing hardball on his other properties (the Buffy bidding war he started round the same time.)  And then he makes snarky comments in interviews.

That and the fact he likes to write waaaaay too many characters in the same smarmy, witticism laden manner.  He's really a high and low guy.  His high points are damn nice,  and his low points are guh.  (I'm looking at you "Heart of Gold",  or the fact that everyone on the ship pulls off one-liners,  or Mal going to wounded idealist well too often)

He's basically playing to his devotees at this point,  and not making any effort to branch out or bridge the distance with other viewers.

Blade had some real uneven character work.  Blade was not great.  The female protagonist was up and down.  And they jumped into freaky vampire politics way too soon.  If they had eased into it,  I think it would have gone alot better for them.

[Velorath]

Having just watched through all three seasons over the past few weeks, I have to admit there are some things I'm confused by.  At the start of each show, where it talks about man creating cylons and there are many copies and all that, the last thing it says is "and they have a plan".  I can't for the life of me figure out what that plan is, and it doesn't seem like the cylons can either.  They act more like a kid who doesn't have any interest in a particular toy until they see some other kid playing with it.  They wipe out most of humanity and take over the 12 colonies.  The remaining humans say, "fuck this we're going to Earth".  So the cylons say "hey guys, we're leaving the colonies, and looking for another place to settle down, so we're heading to Earth".  What the fuck?

Then for a while Caprica Six and Boomer help convince the Cylons to try co-existing with the humans rather than wiping them out.  To that end they... follow them to New Caprica and oppress the fuck out of them and then wonder why the humans are fighting back?  Everything after the initial attack on the colonies has made the Cylons look like complete fucking bunglers with no idea of what the really want or how to get it.  If they wanted to go to Earth all along, they could have done it without ever needing to wipe out humanity.  Likewise if they wanted to find ways to crossbreed with humans  So what exactly is this plan that the beginning of every single episode ominously wants to remind me they have?

[Kitsune]

Well, there's a reason that 'Don't worry guys, I have a plan... just like the Cylons' has become a laugh-producing line.  The reason is that anyone who laughs is a giant nerd.  But aside from that reason, the Cylons don't have a plan; they're fucking around like a bunch of teenagers.  I mean, literally.  If you gave a fleet of warships and battle robots to teenagers, this is probably the same level of planning you'd get out of them.

[eldaec]

I think they are refering to God's plan. I might be wrong. Also, the idea that the final 5 have the plan would make sense.

 To that end they... follow them to New Caprica and oppress the fuck out of them and then wonder why the humans are fighting back?

The purpose of that was....

1) Hamfisted Iraq allegory.
2) demonstrating that Cylons are like humans.

The Cylon political truism underlying most of the practical decisions on the (inital 7) Cylon body politic is that they believe, if left to their own devices, the human race will come back and wipe out the Cylons. The more practical Cylons want to find Earth for that reason, the spiritual like Cap 6 seem to believe that merging into the human race and hybrids is the way forward.

Cap 6 and Boomer wanted to coexist, the media guy and Al-from-quantum-leap wanted to keep a closer eye on the humans, Cylons have politics too.



btw, Galactica's producer came out and said it wasn't a head-starbuck at the end.

Given that vipers don't have ftl. Starbuck can only really have arrived with the Cylon fleet.

One possibility is that this is a final 5 faction fleet, who don't feel inclined to murder everyone.

But before they can reveal that, I rather hope that they plan to explore these guys knowing they are cylon WITHOUT murdering anyone or being forced to do anything crazy. Starbuck may just return to Galactica, and then rightly or wrongly be accused of being Cylon, while the Cylon fleet buggers off. That sets up potentially interesting Starbuck-Sam and Starbuck-Tigh stuff while everyone figures out what's what. All of this being watchable depends on Starbuck becoming a less irritating character ofc.

The only other solution I see is Starbuck having escaped from the Cylon fleet with some secret to disable or neutralise it - but that sounds too much like a series 1 solution. No doubt metaphysical nonsense will have to be involved these days.

[Lantyssa]

I'm pretty sure the cylon fleet was that of the final five and Starbuck is with them because it was their raider which rescued her.

I too hope they explore the Final (5-1) a bit before showing us all the copies.  Or they will all be Final 5-Earth human hybrids so they can use random actors.

[Furiously]

I really need to download the last few podcasts.