Player Housing Coming

[Venkman]

According to this article Zonk found

“Another small but potentially profound concept for ‘WoW’ is player-generated housing. Gamers don’t have a room of their own for their characters to live and decorate right now. This matters to Kaplan, who is a big fan of ‘Animal Crossing,’ the Nintendo franchise centered around cultivating a home and sense of unique, personal space. ‘I think housing can take World of Warcraft to the next level,’ Kaplan said. ‘I want to make sure that when we introduce player housing to World of Warcraft we do it right and give the feature the credit that it deserves, which is a massive amount of production time on the programming, design and art time. It’s something we actually wanted to do for the original shipping game.’ But it’s not coming, he said, until it’s a “Blizzard-quality feature.”

I don’t think anyone would be surprised if housing came to WoW. It’s on the short list for broadening the mid- and endgame for any MMO, particularly the linear ones.

As long as they do it in their own instances, it’ll be fine. I know people have fears of houses on Hyjal, but the days of players building wherever they feel like ended with UO’s first expansion.

[Riggswolfe]

SWG showed that devs never learn. I think though that Blizzard is smart enough it won't be an issue. I remember the instance behind the grate along the canal in Stormwind. Rumors were it was a housing zone.

[Simond]

Rip off EQ2 housing wholesale, and add the usuall Blizz polish - maybe instanced streets/plots rather than just rooms? Or both?

They may as well steal EQ2's collection 'quests' too, while they're at it.

[bhodi]

I figured they were just going to steal ffxi's housing, plus anyone in your party has the option to come into your room with you.

[Slayerik]

Rip off EQ2 housing wholesale, and add the usuall Blizz polish - maybe instanced streets/plots rather than just rooms? Or both?

They may as well steal EQ2's collection 'quests' too, while they're at it.

By the way, I believe Neocron had the first instanced housing that I ever saw. Upgradable apartments with keycode access ...

[Rasix]

Eh, AO had instanced housing.  Not that it matters much who's first.

I'd welcome some housing. Being able to pimp my pad would be cool and if they can add any sort of side activities (like UO/FFXI's plant raising) that'd be great too.  Storage, personal supply vendors, crafting stations would all be gravvy. 

You can really do no wrong with instanced housing, unless you manage to create it in a way that melts your database. 

[Slayerik]

Eh, AO had instanced housing.  Not that it matters much who's first.

I'd welcome some housing. Being able to pimp my pad would be cool and if they can add any sort of side activities (like UO/FFXI's plant raising, that'd be great too).  Storage, personal supply vendors, crafting stations would all be gravvy. 

You can really do no wrong with instanced housing, unless you manage to create it in a way that melts your database. 

Ah thats right...I played AO and didnt even remember that ... heh

[Dren]

What Rasix said.  They could open up a whole new mini-game system and broaden their appeal even more.

Really, I'm surprised they haven't done it already.

[Fabricated]

I'm banking on them using the FF11 system. You know that big gate in Stormwind that's been there since release? That was intended for the player housing area.

[Merusk]

It shouldn't surprise me, but for some reason it does.  Then again I'm also thinking, "crap that's awesome" and "crap now I'll never unsub." at the same time.

[Venkman]

Long ago I ranted that to create a successful virtual lifestyle experience, you first need to attract players to the game. This is largely because virtual lifestyles are so much more complex to create than a comparatively simpler linear multiplayer RPG. If you can have success with that, you can then broaden into lifestyles, alternative activities that have nothing to do with 25-/40-man raids.

AC1 I think stands as the first game to really try this once they integrated their housing in the Dark Majesty expac, with vendors, furniture and so on. DAoC took it a step further by integrating so much customization, and the side-games surrounding it. I'd say EQ2 is the pinnacle, except I'm not a big fan of AO-style apartments because there's no real sense of ownership in the visceral sense. You don't get to see your house.

I like AC1's system the best. They integrated civic zoning such that you could only place houses on specific tagged spots, and it was part of the persistent world.

For WoW, I'd like to at the very least have instanced zones off the main cities already populated with houses of various sizes in various neighborhoods. Players would buy the house that's there (no deed placing required) and customize/minigame it beyond.

[Jayce]

You can really do no wrong with instanced housing, unless you manage to create it in a way that melts your database. 

Clean up Brittania, lol.

[Azaroth]

Housing is fun.

Usually.

In WoW, I can only imagine how they'll turn it into another horrible grind of some sort.

[Rasix]

You can really do no wrong with instanced housing, unless you manage to create it in a way that melts your database. 

Clean up Brittania, lol.

There are many, many ways you can screw up non-instanced housing. Look at your nearest Raph Koster inspired game to see how!   :-D SWG had massive DB problems.  The crafting system and its unique IDs, did not help at all, I'm sure.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't UO (like EQ) use a flat file system and not a RDB?

UO for the longest time basically had infinite item storage.  That's rough on any system.

[Kitsune]

I believe that AO has the best system.  Player-built non-instanced cities that actually provide nice in-game bonuses as incentive to build them, with limitations on placement to make sure that the world doesn't turn into a giant ghetto.  The game needs to be designed with enough space to allow for those cities, though, and WoW is not.  The housing will, of course, be instanced, fairly generic, and likely exist solely as a money sink.  Expect it with the next expansion, along with some carpentry-ish tradeskill.

[Dren]

I believe that AO has the best system.  Player-built non-instanced cities that actually provide nice in-game bonuses as incentive to build them, with limitations on placement to make sure that the world doesn't turn into a giant ghetto.  The game needs to be designed with enough space to allow for those cities, though, and WoW is not.  The housing will, of course, be instanced, fairly generic, and likely exist solely as a money sink.  Expect it with the next expansion, along with some carpentry-ish tradeskill.

I'm happy with that myself.  I really do not get off on seeing houses built as far as I can see.  I get that in real life, no need to have it here.

I would like to see them do more with the guild systems too.  A good start would be to provide something similar to the GW system of providing an instanced space for guild members to visit for training, vendors, chat, etc.  Perhaps if the guild put together their resources and time, constructs could be built at the headquarters that provides buffs for the entire guild regardless of level, gear, etc.  It might even provide for some guild versus guild competition a la ATitD.  I'm not saying the benefit would be game-breaking, but something to brag about.

There seriously is a lot of potential for this stuff.

[Triforcer]

Although it hasn't been done right to date, non-instanced housing is really the only way to go.  Instanced housing is fucking stupid.  The whole point of housing is to wave your e-peen at other people by showing the riches in your house and/or the size of your house and/or its awesome location.  Also, it adds the excitement of house looting.  Instanced housing is just a glorified bank vault (although they'll probably eventually use it as an excuse to implement something retarded like 50k gold teleportation portals to the Azeroth locations of your choice or a personal AH terminal).  What's the point?

[Rasix]

If you're unable to think outside the bounds of e-cock and griefing, nothing. 

[Mazakiel]

Well, the way Stormwind is set up to look, there's chunks of city you see, but can't reach.  The instance portal could just lead to different neighborhood groups or streets.  I had something longer written here, but the short version is:  think similar to CoH's instanced zones.  You could travel freely through the neighborhoods and see people's houses, even peek in, but there wouldn't be a ginormous sprawl taking up half the world. 

For stuff to do, one could allow rogues/engineers, for example, to break into houses, though stealing other PC's loot is probably something they wouldn't do for WoW.  Each neighborhood could have a smattering of NPC houses as well, so that the neighborhood looks lived in, and then rogues/engineers could break into those NPC houses for random loot.  There could be repeatable breaking and entering quests on a timer or something, that had you needing to evade people in the house from seeing you to get some sort of special item.  It could even be how the quest to get lockpicking is done, or something. 

Anyway, there's lots of ways they could use instancing to prevent ghetto sprawls from arising, while still allowing for some of the aspects of housing that are more worldy.  It doesn't have to be like FFXI's housing. 

edit:  Paragraph break

[Triforcer]

If you're unable to think outside the bounds of e-cock and griefing, nothing. 

Someone had their their chest of wood and garlic, two paintings, and 1500 gold stolen from their shack in Jhelom back in the day  

[Rasix]

If you're unable to think outside the bounds of e-cock and griefing, nothing. 

Someone had their their chest of wood and garlic, two paintings, and 1500 gold stolen from their shack in Jhelom back in the day 

  I broke into plenty houses in UO.  Do I get some sort of badge now? Maybe a participation ribbon? Broken into a few times as well. It was UO.

It wasn't bitterness, it's just continued amazement at you inability to think in a manner that doesn't involve scraping your knuckles on the ground. Do you want them to implement people popping up under someone's floorboards using a spell and bugged geometry too?

If you're going to see housing in WoW, it's assuredly going to be two things:
1) Safe
2) Instanced
Just the nature of the beast.

[Signe]

I hardly ever talk about my UO days.  I did all sorts of mean stuff.  I never tell anyone what my name was or what guild I was in because then they'll suddenly remember how much they hated me back then.  I'm much nicer now.  Not that I wasn't nice back then.  I was just mischievous.

[angry.bob]

I hardly ever talk about my UO days.  I did all sorts of mean stuff.  I never tell anyone what my name was or what guild I was in because then they'll suddenly remember how much they hated me back then.  I'm much nicer now.  Not that I wasn't nice back then.  I was just mischievous.

You were in Keepers of Chaos, weren't you?

In WoW, I can only imagine how they'll turn it into another horrible grind of some sort.

You know the bare minimum is going to be:
1) Exalted with whatever faction the city is
2) 10,000 gold for a one room shack/hut (as currently in game), scaling from there

I hope there's also insane resource gathering involved as well. Like add lumberjacking and require thousands of stone, wood, and metal bars.

I wonder if that's one of the things the guy from the Silvermoon Builder's Association is for...

[Jayce]

I fail to see what bearing instancing has on breaking and entering, unless everyone has their own house instance, which would be fucktarded.

Also, house looting was never "implemented" in UO.  That would imply they wanted it to happen.  They WANTED a CS nightmare.  Also, fucktarded.

I for one would love to see AC1's model, but the world isn't wide open and largely empty like AC was.

[Calantus]

I fail to see what bearing instancing has on breaking and entering, unless everyone has their own house instance, which would be fucktarded.

Also, house looting was never "implemented" in UO.  That would imply they wanted it to happen.  They WANTED a CS nightmare.  Also, fucktarded.

I for one would love to see AC1's model, but the world isn't wide open and largely empty like AC was.

Well they did call it a creative use of game mechanics until enough people bitched about it, so you never know.

[Rasix]

I fail to see what bearing instancing has on breaking and entering, unless everyone has their own house instance, which would be fucktarded.

Also, house looting was never "implemented" in UO.  That would imply they wanted it to happen.  They WANTED a CS nightmare.  Also, fucktarded.

I for one would love to see AC1's model, but the world isn't wide open and largely empty like AC was.

I would be shocked to see an implementation where someone's house entrance wasn't an instance portal.  But hey, they might surprise me.

As for house looting, there were ways to bleed someone dry without exploiting.  Lockdowns and secure containers weren't always part of the game and it was plenty easy to either steal a key or get into a house through subterfuge/brute force. 

I've never seen AC1's model in action but it sounds great.  I just don't see it happening in a game like WoW in a way that doesn't leave the non-poopsocker disenfranchised.   But hey, again.. being surprised by Blizzard would be grand.

[Morat20]

The thought of "Neighborhoods" is pretty cool -- you can choose to make your house accessibly to your guild, and thus it gets placed in the guild "neighborhood".

I suspect only you will be allowed to pick up your stuff, though.

[Venkman]

This is not going to be some dream of old-UO. This is Blizzard. I think angry.bob has it right: 10k gold, Exalted++, maybe the ability to place some stuff, though I doubt they'd go so far as the pretty-decent system of item placement EQ2 uses.

We gotta remember, most of the stuff we have in our inventories and banks do not exist as 3D models, quite unlike SWG. And I haven't really seen much proof that the WoW engine can support equipped items as static world objects either (not sure that's important though). There needs to be a whole new class of item, which they might as well filter into world drops and crafting recipes, along with the associated resource nodes and skills.

But there won't be house looting and all bugs found will be squashed. This is a game about continually amassing riches whereas in UO that was just one type of activity. Blizzard knows damn well people quit over large amounts of lost items. It's bad business to allow players to steal shit in a diku.

[Morat20]

This is not going to be some dream of old-UO. This is Blizzard. I think angry.bob has it right: 10k gold, Exalted++, maybe the ability to place some stuff, though I doubt they'd go so far as the pretty-decent system of item placement EQ2 uses.

We gotta remember, most of the stuff we have in our inventories and banks do not exist as 3D models, quite unlike SWG. And I haven't really seen much proof that the WoW engine can support equipped items as static world objects either (not sure that's important though). There needs to be a whole new class of item, which they might as well filter into world drops and crafting recipes, along with the associated resource nodes and skills.

But there won't be house looting and all bugs found will be squashed. This is a game about continually amassing riches whereas in UO that was just one type of activity. Blizzard knows damn well people quit over large amounts of lost items. It's bad business to allow players to steal shit in a diku.

My bet would be guild based -- that'd be the best compromise between instanced housing and "showing shit off". Your guild gets an instanced area, and you can places houses/inns/whatever there. What you might be able to drop is beyond me -- but I suspect the idea is to allow guild meeting areas. Perhaps there'll be a way to look at others.

Whatever they do, it'll be another thing you can do at endgame. Chase down the shit to turn your house into a tavern for your guild, complete with basic vendors. Make earn fun shit like some of the Darkmoon faire type games.

[Trippy]

This is not going to be some dream of old-UO. This is Blizzard. I think angry.bob has it right: 10k gold, Exalted++, maybe the ability to place some stuff, though I doubt they'd go so far as the pretty-decent system of item placement EQ2 uses.

We gotta remember, most of the stuff we have in our inventories and banks do not exist as 3D models, quite unlike SWG. And I haven't really seen much proof that the WoW engine can support equipped items as static world objects either (not sure that's important though). There needs to be a whole new class of item, which they might as well filter into world drops and crafting recipes, along with the associated resource nodes and skills.

But there won't be house looting and all bugs found will be squashed. This is a game about continually amassing riches whereas in UO that was just one type of activity. Blizzard knows damn well people quit over large amounts of lost items. It's bad business to allow players to steal shit in a diku.

My bet would be guild based -- that'd be the best compromise between instanced housing and "showing shit off". Your guild gets an instanced area, and you can places houses/inns/whatever there. What you might be able to drop is beyond me -- but I suspect the idea is to allow guild meeting areas. Perhaps there'll be a way to look at others.

Too much of a permissions problem if you have to travel through a guild area just to visit a guilded player's residence. And what if you are not in a guild?

[Tale]

Blizzard has been talking about player housing since beta, when they put the player housing instance portal into Stormwind (which remains there - the big one behind a gate you can't get through).

All the quotes are here:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Player_Housing

[angry.bob]

I'm sure there will be guild specific structures, but it's going to revolve around individual housing. From the way the winds seem to be blowing, I think they've caught on that while lots of people are in guilds, more aren't or at the very least are only in guilds for as long as the guild helps them get loot and have no investment in the guild, emotional or otherwise.

I'm predicting that overall design starts shifting to focus on individual achievements and even smaller grouping than they are now, and guilds will have changed to be much, much different than they are now. By the time the next expansion rolls around I'd be surprised if they're even still doing 20-mans.

And even if I'm completely wrong about all that, making housing involve guild structures only still excludes far to much of their customer base for them to design such a system.

[WindupAtheist]

All your swords and helmets and shit exist as 3d models, so that they can be displayed on the character.  How hard can it be to allow you to set them down in a house, assuming you're Blizzard and have their time/resources?

[Venkman]

Depends on how they exist. I'm no expert, but I imagine it's not as easy as simply removing the tag that says "player owned" and change it to "keep it here on the ground at x, y, z. If every house is an instance, it'd probably be fine, with a SWG-esque limit on the number of items stored.

Someone who knows what they're talking about may be able to explain it better though :)

[eldaec]

Although it hasn't been done right to date, non-instanced housing is really the only way to go.  Instanced housing is fucking stupid.  The whole point of housing is to wave your e-peen at other people by showing the riches in your house and/or the size of your house and/or its awesome location.  Also, it adds the excitement of house looting.  Instanced housing is just a glorified bank vault (although they'll probably eventually use it as an excuse to implement something retarded like 50k gold teleportation portals to the Azeroth locations of your choice or a personal AH terminal).  What's the point?

Instancing has nothing at all to do with anything you described above.

Nothing whatsoever stops house-break-ins being implemented in an instanced housing solution. (though it won't happen for other even more obvious reasons)

Nothing whatsoever stops you allowing everyone to enter your house in an instanced solution.

Nothing whatsoever stops premium locations and house sizes being available in an instanced solution.

Assuming by 'instanced' you actually mean multiple houses sharing one entrance (in technical terms all housing will almost certainly be instanced), the only downside to instanced is that people don't get to customise their exterior.


As for the suggestion that multiple houses sharing one entrance makes it just a glorified bank vault, that's just as facile as suggesting that your character is just a glorified GI Joe doll.


Personally, I like the concept of having mass-apartment-bedsit locations for new players, and a limited number of customisable pre-built one-owner-only buildings for players and guilds to rent once they are rich as hell. Any system should give everyone a home of some sort - because shutting new players out of the home decoration system is silly.