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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: What are your paranormal beliefs? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Poll
Question: Which of the following (if any) do you believe in?
UFOs/Alien visitations - 38 (23.3%)
Ghosts - 26 (16%)
Telepathy/Telekinesis - 17 (10.4%)
Bigfoot/Yeti - 10 (6.1%)
Demons/Exorcisms - 12 (7.4%)
Chupacabra/Nessie/other Cryptids - 9 (5.5%)
Mediums/communications with the dead (including EVP) - 8 (4.9%)
Other (explain) - 43 (26.4%)
Total Voters: 87

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Author Topic: What are your paranormal beliefs?  (Read 61002 times)
Sky
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Reply #35 on: December 15, 2006, 06:47:52 AM

None. Thanks for not putting that in the poll, you tard.
Quote
Ghost Hunters:  The people in the show seem pretty reasonable, but whoever does the editing jacks it up by splicing it to be scary.
Really? The whole looking for EM fields, 'cold spots' and photo 'orbs' really seems like you're fucking reaching a bit hard to me. Reasonable would be "Hey, we've had two seasons and haven't found shit, let's call it decided."
Roac
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Reply #36 on: December 15, 2006, 07:42:54 AM

Other (None).

Poll suggests a reasonable number of [moderate] new agers on here.  Interesting.

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Reply #37 on: December 15, 2006, 10:37:03 AM


That is, they're fun to think about, and the mythology they present makes our world that much more rich, but in broad daylight, I can't really espouse a strong belief in their existence.

I can't resist asking:

So you don't believe in them in broad daylight, what about at night?

After a few beers, the ceiling lights start to look like UFOs... :)

Quote
Ghost Hunters:  The people in the show seem pretty reasonable, but whoever does the editing jacks it up by splicing it to be scary.
Really? The whole looking for EM fields, 'cold spots' and photo 'orbs' really seems like you're fucking reaching a bit hard to me. Reasonable would be "Hey, we've had two seasons and haven't found shit, let's call it decided."

Hilarious how far they'll stretch to find what they're looking for, isn't it? True believers come in all stripes.
tazelbain
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Reply #38 on: December 15, 2006, 10:56:59 AM


Really? The whole looking for EM fields, 'cold spots' and photo 'orbs' really seems like you're fucking reaching a bit hard to me. Reasonable would be "Hey, we've had two seasons and haven't found shit, let's call it decided."
I am sure they are reaching.  That's their job.  But at least they aren't the usual nutjob psychics wondering around with their hands in the air moaning "I feel an angry presence." and they don't mistake every unexplained bump as a ghost.  They look for alternate sources.

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Reply #39 on: December 15, 2006, 11:47:47 AM

Too bad the poll didn't include some other wacky modern mythology, like MIBs and Orgone.

Them thar's some wacky shit.
Bunk
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Reply #40 on: December 15, 2006, 12:46:05 PM

I voted UFOs, with the qualification that I belive in the likely hood of intelligent life out there. It most likely has not actually done a flyby on us, but I still think its out there.

As for the ghost stuff, one of my biggest pet peeves right now is watching Myth Busters on Discovery, and ever other commercial break is for a re-enacted ghost story show on the same network. The two don't belong on the same fucking channel, damnit.

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Reply #41 on: December 15, 2006, 01:29:15 PM

Aliens, sure.  Aliens visiting earth, not so sure.

But based on the size of the universe, there pretty much HAS to be intelligent life out there somewhere.  Roll a 200,000-sided die 900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times and it's bound to land on 1 a few times.

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Reply #42 on: December 15, 2006, 02:55:44 PM

But based on the size of the universe, there pretty much HAS to be intelligent life out there somewhere.  Roll a 200,000-sided die 900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times and it's bound to land on 1 a few times.

The problem with this kind of thing is that we have no idea how rare it is for life to form.  Even one cell of our bodies is astronomically complex, and the number of planets, excluding Earth, where we have proof of that kind of thing happening is zero.  So maybe life is super rare.  On the other hand, maybe we're defining life too narrowly (like, could life exist on a planet without liquid water), so maybe  life is more common than we'd assume.  I'm not really ready to jump to a conclusion like this until I have some statistics that are more accurate than someone's random guess.  Just saying "big numbers divided by other big numbers equals a kind of high probability, maybe!" isn't being very scientific, to my mind.

Which isn't problematic if you don't base your beliefs on science, which I don't, so I checked all the boxes.  Life's more interesting that way.  Not that I'm shelling out fifty bucks for Himalayan Salt Crystal Lamps to protect my home from "negative ions", or anything.  I just find it more productive to say "I believe in UFOs, but that guy who claims he was abducted is full of crap" than to just dismiss all UFO sightings out of hand because "UFOs don't exist!"
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Reply #43 on: December 15, 2006, 02:57:28 PM

Too bad the poll didn't include some other wacky modern mythology, like MIBs and Orgone.

Them thar's some wacky shit.

I read this book in college called Daemonic Reality that discussed ghosts, MIBs, UFOs, fairies, etc. The premise was that all of these things, stretching from fairies and such in medieval times to MIBS and UFOs now are the same phenomenon but that they change how they approach us to suit the mentality of the time period. So for instance, 100 years ago my ancestor might have been visited by some mysterious ghost, today I'd be visited by a MIB because I understand that better.

It was a very bizarre but kind of interesting book.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Reply #44 on: December 15, 2006, 03:00:32 PM


The problem with this kind of thing is that we have no idea how rare it is for life to form.  Even one cell of our bodies is astronomically complex, and the number of planets, excluding Earth, where we have proof of that kind of thing happening is zero.  So maybe life is super rare.  On the other hand, maybe we're defining life too narrowly (like, could life exist on a planet without liquid water), so maybe  life is more common than we'd assume.  I'm not really ready to jump to a conclusion like this until I have some statistics that are more accurate than someone's random guess.  Just saying "big numbers divided by other big numbers equals a kind of high probability, maybe!" isn't being very scientific, to my mind.

Well, mathmatically, life pretty much has to exist somewhere else in the universe. Hell, simple calculus "proves" that the chance of life approaches 1 (or 100% statistically).

Quote
Which isn't problematic if you don't base your beliefs on science, which I don't, so I checked all the boxes.  Life's more interesting that way.  Not that I'm shelling out fifty bucks for Himalayan Salt Crystal Lamps to protect my home from "negative ions", or anything.  I just find it more productive to say "I believe in UFOs, but that guy who claims he was abducted is full of crap" than to just dismiss all UFO sightings out of hand because "UFOs don't exist!"

I still maintain that on both sides you have a type of faith. For skeptics faith boils down to "I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist no matter what you or anyone else says."
« Last Edit: December 17, 2006, 09:05:50 AM by Riggswolfe »

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Kail
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Reply #45 on: December 15, 2006, 03:20:56 PM

Well, mathmatically, life pretty much has to exist somewhere else in the universe. Hell, simple calculus "proves" that the chance of life approaches 1 (or 100% statistically).

I'm not denying the certainty that life exists in the universe.  That would be among the stupider arguments I could make.  I'm just not sure if it exists outside Earth.

If you're working on the belief that there are an infinite number of planets in the universe, that could work, but I don't think that's a universal (haha) position these days.  If you've got a closed universe, you're dealing with a finite number of planets, and the question of what the exact probability of life is becomes more important (like, if there are X number of stars, for us to assume extraterrestrial intelligence, we'd have to have some way to establish that probability for a star to have life would have to be at least 1 to X/2 (Earth + 1 other)), and I don't see reliable data to support that.

Every statistical model of extraterrestrial life I've ever seen has had MASSIVE gaps in it.  What's the chance for life to evolve on an Earthlike planet with conditions exactly like ours?  Who knows; we're limited to a sample size of one.  How is that chance affected by, say, not having a moon?  Er, I dunno, it's lowered, a bit, maybe?  Or raised?  Who knows?

Edit: spelling...
« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 03:28:19 PM by Kail »
Azazel
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Reply #46 on: December 15, 2006, 03:44:39 PM

I believe that there's a real possibility of intelligent life out there somewhere, though like others have said, whether they've been here or not isn't something I feel strongly about.

Similarly, I don't have any specific beliefs in any cryptids, (ie Nessie, etc) but I think it's certainly possible that there are a few relevent undoscovered species left out there, mostly in the depths of jungles and deep deep sea. I'd tend to lump the Bigfeet and Yeti and Wampas in here as well, though I think they're much less likely to be around nowadays.

For "other", while I dont believe in a god (or gods) I do believe that Jesus and Mohammed and most other major prophets lived. I think that they would have either been either really powerful and self-convinced orators or a little bit touched in the head, or both. The stories of their amazing adventures have no doubt been embellished to no end over the years and centuries.

Demons, curses, gods, all that stuff - man explains stuff that he cant explain as best he can, and traditions and religion does the rest over the years. The sun is Ra's chariot, after all...

Mediums. Please reference Penn & Teller, Southpark. There was some kind of universal contest involved, as I believe.


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Tale
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Reply #47 on: December 15, 2006, 03:48:01 PM

I voted "Other". In 1991 I did volunteer work on an Aboriginal community northwest of Ayer's Rock/Uluru, in the Australian desert. I saw many examples of Aboriginal people's close relationship with the land. In fact, they consider themselves part of it, along with all the animals on it.

One day, a group of us (workers and an Aboriginal family) were travelling in two vehicles. A friend of mine was driving in the lead car, and I was a passenger. Our other two passengers were two Aboriginal kids, aged about five and eight. They were bored and snoozing in the back. The dirt road was going around the base of a hill, so it was curved and made a constant blind corner (couldn't see around the hill).

Suddenly both kids sat up and the eight-year-old yelled "kangaroos, go slow". We couldn't see much of the road due to the blind corner, but the driver braked. And sure enough, a little further around the bend, there were kangaroos on the road and we would have hit them if the kid had not warned us. But there was no way he could have seen them through the hill. The driver and me just looked at each other, because it was an undeniably supernatural moment. That kid had some kind of awareness of the land or the animals that we did not have.

I've also driven out there on my own, on the highway. There are whirlwinds called "willy-willys" that are considered supernatural spirits by the Aboriginal people. As far as I was concerned, they were just weather effects. But I was driving along and at the side of the road ahead, there was a grey patch on the red sand. I got closer and the grey patch "got up" and "moved" onto the centre of the road. It "stood up" higher and higher, until it was a willy-willy. Then it "ran" off the road, out of the path of my car, and headed west over the land. It wasn't just like some of the red sand blown up in the start of a willy-willy, it was made of grey stuff and I saw it "get up" off the red background.

I swear I saw that, and it's very hard to explain as just some random weather effect (though possible), and any scientific explanation is dismissing 40,000 years of Aboriginal knowledge of living in the area. So I'm open to believing they're something more than weather effects.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 03:53:04 PM by Tale »
Engels
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Reply #48 on: December 15, 2006, 03:54:06 PM

Quote
I got closer and the grey patch "got up" and "moved" onto the centre of the road. It "stood up" higher and higher, until it was a willy-willy. Then it "ran" off the road, out of the path of my car, and headed west over the land.

Supernatural my ass. It was Pigpen, from Peanuts.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

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Reply #49 on: December 15, 2006, 04:37:53 PM

I'd like to mention a couple of strange experiences I had when I was younger, and want to know what your opinions are on them (I should also add the disclaimer that I used to be a regular drug user back in my teens....But during these two episodes, only marijuana was involved).

I had these two strange instances where I "attracted" wild birds to fly on me. Perhaps that sounds unremarkable, but let me explain:

The first time, I was just sitting on my porch taking a cig break, was slightly stoned, and all of the sudden I kind of "zoned out" (if you don't know what zoning out is, it's that feeling when you fall asleep for a brief instant, have your conscious and subconscious thoughts briefly merge, and for whatever reason, you get kicked back into an awakened state.....Make sense?).

Anyways, for a brief instant, this happened to me: But it was stranger than the usual kind of "zoning out". I distinctly remember this awful, pulsating, and deafening noise surrounding me as I slipped into this state. It was like being swallowed up by something.

This lasted maybe a few seconds, and instead of being "kicked" out of that state and back into consciousness, I emerged out of it much more smoothly. As I woke up, everything seemed more serene -- sights, sounds, my own attitude -- and then all of a sudden, a sparrow just came out of nowhere and landed on my hand. Not to sound corny or anything, but it was like some scene out of a fairy tale.

When that happened, reality sunk in, and I freaked out. That bird wasn't supposed to land on me. I started shaking my hand, he flew off, and then I was just left there to contemplate it. I didn't tell anyone what happened.

--

The second instance happened several weeks after that, this time in front of 3 people. We were just standing out in someone's front yard talking for awhile, and then, somewhere in the conversation, I stopped paying attention. The only thing I recall is slipping into that weird, deafening state again. When I woke, a bird came right out of the tree above us and landed on my arm. Everyone else noticed. I ended up panicing again, and shook the bird off.

They thought it was weird for a minute, and I tried to explain to them the previous instance where it happened, but all in all, it was a fairly unremarkable thing to them. They picked up where the conversation left off. And I just stood there for the rest of the night wondering what the hell was going on.


So....What was it? Coincidence? Some kind of feral telepathy maybe (am I the freaking Beastmaster or what?). Drug induced hallucination and group hallucination (Mind you, I was barely high on weed at both times. The others were barely high the second time. Weed generally doesn't cause those kind of levels of delusion or hallucination)?

[EDIT] Also, I have more strange experiences (not necessarily related to this one) if you want to hear them.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 04:40:04 PM by Stray »
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Reply #50 on: December 15, 2006, 05:06:48 PM

[EDIT] Also, I have more strange experiences (not necessarily related to this one) if you want to hear them.

I like fun stories. Please share!
Tale
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Reply #51 on: December 15, 2006, 05:07:50 PM

So....What was it? Coincidence? Some kind of feral telepathy maybe (am I the freaking Beastmaster or what?). Drug induced hallucination and group hallucination (Mind you, I was barely high on weed at both times. The others were barely high the second time. Weed generally doesn't cause those kind of levels of delusion or hallucination)?

It fits into the context of my experience of Aboriginal connections with the land and everything on it (similar to Native American and other indigenous people's traditional outlook): you're not the Beastmaster, you're just reverting to your natural state of being connected with everything. You're normally disconnected with that, as western culture has lost it. But your state of mind (due to drugs or zoning out) put you back into default mode. Birds landed on your arm because your western-ness was down and they didn't sense a threat, so it was like them landing on a tree or a cow's back or whatever, because you were just a part of nature. You became a new and interesting place for a bird to land (bird logic: new and interesting = chance of food?).

« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 05:11:34 PM by Tale »
Margalis
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Reply #52 on: December 15, 2006, 05:32:53 PM

The birds wanted to toke up.

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Reply #53 on: December 15, 2006, 07:43:05 PM

[EDIT] Also, I have more strange experiences (not necessarily related to this one) if you want to hear them.

I like fun stories. Please share!

Hmm, I take that back. The rest of the my experiences would just make me look like some drug addled lunatic or, in some cases, just a garden variety lunatic (if I don't seem that way already). Some have also affected my life in such a profound way that I'm not really up for criticism at the moment either.

Other than that, I have one ghost related experience (supposedly)...Which, in written form, would come out as boring as hell unless I spiced it up a bit.  tongue
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Reply #54 on: December 16, 2006, 01:03:45 AM

I picked ghosts, cryptids and other.

Fight!

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Reply #55 on: December 16, 2006, 09:22:42 AM

Stray, I can't blame you for not wanting to share some of those experiences here, especially since f13 is populated by a no small number of smart alecs.

My only true paranormal experience was when my parents visited me, at their own grave site. I was with a friend, and suddenly, an overwhelming feeling of love and affection surrounded me, and the 'flavor', if you will, was unmistakably that of my departed parents. My friend felt it too, and he just bolted out of there, white as a sheet. I left fairly quickly too, utterly freaked out.

I've felt like a complete ingrate since then, but I'm sure my parents, wherever they are, probably understand that we're not really prepared for supernatural visitations, even from ma and pa.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

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stray
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Reply #56 on: December 16, 2006, 04:47:01 PM

Man, that gives me the chills too.
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Reply #57 on: December 16, 2006, 10:10:23 PM

But based on the size of the universe, there pretty much HAS to be intelligent life out there somewhere.  Roll a 200,000-sided die 900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times and it's bound to land on 1 a few times.

The problem with this kind of thing is that we have no idea how rare it is for life to form.  Even one cell of our bodies is astronomically complex, and the number of planets, excluding Earth, where we have proof of that kind of thing happening is zero.  So maybe life is super rare.  On the other hand, maybe we're defining life too narrowly (like, could life exist on a planet without liquid water), so maybe  life is more common than we'd assume.  I'm not really ready to jump to a conclusion like this until I have some statistics that are more accurate than someone's random guess.  Just saying "big numbers divided by other big numbers equals a kind of high probability, maybe!" isn't being very scientific, to my mind.

No, it's not terribly scientific.  I'm going on gut feeling on this, as I do for most of these things.  Because as easy as it is to logically explain a number of things away (including God), these very things may be outside our current understanding of logic, or outside of logic entirely.  But I'm still pretty damn sure God, ghosts, Bigfoot, psychics, demonic possession, etc, are bullshit.

Aliens, however, I'm willing to allow because 1) they needn't have interacted with anyone on this planet, so it's not totally unbelievable that they'd exist and we wouldn't know about it 2) our universe is pretty friggin big, it almost doesn't matter how miniscule the chance is of intelligent life forming.  Almost.  My gut feeling, again, based on the sheer amount of life on this planet which really isn't that special aside from its position relative to its star and the abundance of water, is that it has to have happened somewhere else at some point, or will.  Whether we'll ever get confirmation of that I doubt.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #58 on: December 16, 2006, 10:57:35 PM

Quote from: Tale
t fits into the context of my experience of Aboriginal connections with the land and everything on it (similar to Native American and other indigenous people's traditional outlook): you're not the Beastmaster, you're just reverting to your natural state of being connected with everything.
I've heard the read the same thing in that religion I've been stalking, Buddhism, as well.

Perhaps being raised in a materialistic gimme gimme society raises one in such a way as to make it difficult to see the interconnectedness of everything.   It certainly doesn't help the way that we lose our grip on reality by believing power is to be found in ideas, which are abstract blueprints that fail to completely describe reality at best.

So, anything supernatural happen to me?  Not really, but then, isn't everyday life pretty amazing if we pay it adequate attention?

...

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Reply #59 on: December 17, 2006, 08:14:25 AM

I have two videos in my cellphone of a wild bluejay landing on my hand.  It was because I had a peanut.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #60 on: December 18, 2006, 06:30:30 AM

I've seen all kinds of unexplained shit. Still isn't proof of ghosts or the supernatural. Senses can't be trusted, and there is an utter lack of unbiased proof.
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Reply #61 on: December 18, 2006, 07:38:51 AM

I still maintain that on both sides you have a type of faith. For skeptics faith boils down to "I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist no matter what you or anyone else says."

What a gross misrepresentation of what practical skepticism is all about.  How about "I've seen no evidence to support its existence, so I'm going to go with 'no'.  If evidence surfaces that supports the position, I will reconsider."? 
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Reply #62 on: December 18, 2006, 09:25:41 AM

Sorry to post and run, but our power went out at the office about 45 seconds after I posted the thread! I have never messed with a poll before, so blame my n00bness for its lack of perfection.

Interesting discussion so far. I would be interested in hearing any and all stories that affect your beliefs one way or the other.

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Reply #63 on: December 18, 2006, 09:35:59 AM

I still maintain that on both sides you have a type of faith. For skeptics faith boils down to "I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist no matter what you or anyone else says."

What a gross misrepresentation of what practical skepticism is all about.  How about "I've seen no evidence to support its existence, so I'm going to go with 'no'.  If evidence surfaces that supports the position, I will reconsider."? 


That's all well and good, but the types of skeptics represented by posters so far is utterly sure of their convictions and would even ignore many types of proof as not valid. Hence, faith based skepticism.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Reply #64 on: December 18, 2006, 09:51:15 AM

What proof is that again?
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Reply #65 on: December 18, 2006, 10:28:05 AM

What proof is that again?

Seconded.

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Reply #66 on: December 18, 2006, 10:34:50 AM

That's all well and good, but the types of skeptics represented by posters so far is utterly sure of their convictions and would even ignore many types of proof as not valid. Hence, faith based skepticism.

When "many types of proof" amounts to "anecdotes", they're perfectly justified in ignoring them.  That's not faith, that's recognizing the unreliable nature of anecdotes.
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Reply #67 on: December 18, 2006, 10:39:13 AM

Life is certainly easier to understand when you chalk up everything you can't explain as a sensory glitch.

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Reply #68 on: December 18, 2006, 10:43:17 AM

So, is it an anecdote to say that I have seen a ghost face to face? (the single most scary experience of my entire life btw) That I have "felt" it for lack of a better term as well?

Is it an anecdote to say that my best friend who is an agnostic is unsure about ghosts (he doesn't 100% believe, but allows that he can't explain in any rational way what happened) based on an experience he had in Britain?

Is it an anecdote to say that a server admin for a major aeronautics coroporation and her retired air force husband have both seen, heard, and interacted with ghosts in their house, as well as having house guests, some of whom I have met and spoken to, who have also experienced unexplainable events in their house?

For you, it is an anecdote probably because you don't know me. Fair enough. But I know my friend, I know these other people, obviously I know my own experiences.

I'd be willing to bet my life though, that even if you knew these other people, and trusted them with your life (as I do my best friend) you'd find some other way to explain these things away because it doesn't fit your world view. That my friend, is faith.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8024


Reply #69 on: December 18, 2006, 10:43:40 AM

Life is certainly easier to understand when you chalk up everything you can't explain as a sensory glitch.

Bingo!

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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