Someone Explain WoW PvP to me plz

[Mr_PeaCH]

WoW nub here.  I finally got on board the WoW train.  Suscriber 7,000,001; that's me.

Anyways, before I sold my soul again to Bliz, I gave EQII a try.  It was actually a lot of fun except it ran like ass on my crappy old PC.  (WoW by comparison runs fantastic.)  But during my EQII stint I tried a PvP server and I could not leave sight of the city walls (or even quest in some of the in-city mob zones) for more than 3 minutes without being set upon by enemies.  I'm not crying about it, it just "is what it is". 

I'm wondering because I'm trying to understand the difference between the 'consensual' PvP on the regular servers in WoW and the PvP servers.  It sounds like there are still wide areas on the PvP servers where if you're not consenting to PvP you're not exposed.  Am I rite?  How does it work in practice vs. theory.  Feel free to analogize with DAoC PvP servers.

I know that WoW is in the throes of a new patch but it seems like, even on a regular server I've got PvP 'instances' (battlegrounds?) to choose from or I can flag myself and PvP 'anytime anywhere' with other PvP flagged opponents.  So what is the lure of WoW PvP servers?  Just a Ganker's Paradise?

[pxib]

Step into a PvP positive place (an enemy city in RP and PvE servers, most zones past level 20 on a PvP server) and you're likely to get ganked... not immediately, but as soon as you get seen and outnumbered. The instanced PvP siphons off the borderline carebears, not the assholes.

So if you like the "challenge" of getting killed at random from time to time, a PvP server is for you. Otherwise you can still have a lot of fun, consentual PvP in the battlegrounds on PvE and RP servers. If you're feeling crazy there, just walk around with your PvP flag up and surely someone will attack you eventually. Probably a level 60.

[Strazos]

In lower zones of your faction, you must be flagged to be attacked by enemies, but once you get into the mid to high-level zones, they are contested. That means you can be attacked at any time. In certain zones, such as Arathi Highlands this isn't too bad.

But other zones, such as Stranglethorn Vale or Hillsbrad, the higher level people rolling through constantly can be pretty obnoxious. Especially when they go FAR out of their way to gank someone 20 levels lower than themselves. And then camp your corpse.

This is typically done by people who are not actually good at PvP.

[Rhonstet]

First off: if you don't like PvP, you shouldn't play on a PvP server.  Disclaimer done.

Part of the PvP server's appeal is that the gameplay is somewhat 'harder' once you break level 20 and you have to leave friendly areas (in general, you are in an exposed/autoflagged zone anytime you see a mob above level 20).  Most people I talked to started on a PvE server, then found joy on PvP servers when they wanted a more 'active' game. 

I liked the PvP servers because grouping was a lot more common.  Once you leave the starting areas, you are pretty much always flagged.  Because of that, there is a lot more incentive to form groups and guilds.  I'll bet that PvP servers will get a lot of use out of the new LFG interface for that reason.  Another weird fact is that there is usually a lot closer balance on PvP servers between Alliance and Horde, which leads to less zerg-raiding of Crossroads and Westfall.

As for PvP servers turning into GankerLand, that only starts happening on the older servers.  And since losing in PvP causes no durability loss and requires nothing more then a corpse run, its PvP is fairly painless compared to most other games.

[ajax34i]

On PvE servers, you have to type /pvp if you wish to allow others to attack you, or if you wish to attack a player who has /pvp'd himself.  Generally, the result is that Alliance players go about their business doing quests, and Horde players do the same, even in zones that are "contested" (anything past the starting areas).  PVP mostly happens in the battlegrounds, and those are segregated by level and/or gear tiers.

RP servers are like PVE servers except there are slightly fewer asshats and 1337 kiddies.  The pace is slower, though, and there will be fewer guilds ready to do, and focused on, the end-game instances.

PVP servers, you're automatically /pvp as soon as you enter the "contested" areas, which is anything other than the starting areas.  Most of the WoW areas have a Horde city and an Alliance one, usually at opposite ends of the zone, and the quests given in both usually send players after the same monsters, so you're likely to be found and interrupted.  More realistic in terms of the Horde vs. Alliance thing.  I guess, how much you enjoy it depends on how good the server's community is.

Actually that's true of all servers.

Other than this world PVP, all servers have battlegrounds (separate areas for team PVP and the grind for PVP honor, ranks, and points), and of course the old /duel command is available to anyone too.

[Jayce]

As for PvP servers turning into GankerLand, that only starts happening on the older servers.  And since losing in PvP causes no durability loss and requires nothing more then a corpse run, its PvP is fairly painless compared to most other games.

I'm on a release server, and I don't necessarily find this to be true (though Gankerland is a subjective term).

In STV, you can count on having periodic trouble, but it's not so that you can't quest or grind there.

On the other end, you have places like Desolace or Feralas where you'd be lucky to see another player, much less an enemy, every few hours.

The whole thing is situational though.  Sometimes the Horde will decide to raid and you can even see things like "Aldrassil [night elf starting town] is under attack" on WorldDefense.  Other times STV will be a ghost town.  It's all down to unpredictable luck and circumstance.  That's one reason I enjoy PvP servers so much :)

[Morfiend]

More detail.

On PVP servers there are 3 types of zone. Faction, Contested and Enemy.

-Faction (Safe Zone). A zone that is controlled by your faction. It is a safe zone. If you are not flagged, members of the other faction cannot attack you, you can attack them. If you do attack them, you become flagged for PVP for 5 minutes and then anyone of the other faction can attack you.

-Enemy. This is the other factions Safe zones. You cannot attack them in less they are flagged. They can attack you.

-Contested. Once you enter a contested zone, you are flagged for PVP, and you will stay flagged for 5 minutes after you leave the contested zone. about 65-70% of zones on a pvp server are contested.

You will run in to your first contested zone around level 15 alliance and level 18-20 horde. There are some zones that are badly designed and lead to ganking, like Hillsbrad. The problme with hillsbrad is it has horde quests starting at level 20, and leading up to 28 or so. The alliance has quests in Hillsbrad starting around levels 30-32 and going up to 35+. You can see the problem here, if you put a bunch of level 20s pf one faction and a bunch of level 30s of another, the level 20s feel the pain.

I refuse to play on a PVE server, because I like the freedom to attack some one if I want to, and in general it feels much more like the factions are at war. Yes there is ganking, and corpse camping, but if that happens you can just move to a different zone for a while, or try and get your faction members in the zone to organize and drive the gankers off. PVP servers are much more exciting, but can also be much more frustrating if some high level decided to kill lowbies in the zone you are trying to level in. I personally will take the good and the bad of PVP over the steril safe feeling of a PVE server. Now if you just want to be left alone to level, go play on a PVE server.

[Venkman]

Peach, you sound frustrated with the inability to travel the world freely in EQ2. That may mean you see PvP as a fun activity but not the very essence of your being. That's basically as I am.

If that's the case, I highly recommend a PvE server. Battlegrounds are only a step away, inside an instance or by talking to an NPC. Meanwhile you're free to play the RPG side of things, alone or in a group.

[Rasix]

Peach, you sound frustrated with the inability to travel the world freely in EQ2. That may mean you see PvP as a fun activity but not the very essence of your being. That's basically as I am.

If that's the case, I highly recommend a PvE server. Battlegrounds are only a step away, inside an instance or by talking to an NPC. Meanwhile you're free to play the RPG side of things, alone or in a group.

One of the main reasons my old guild fell apart is that they severely underestimated the how conflict would mess with what they wanted to do (transfered to Black Dragon Flight).  They weren't prepared at all for fights at popular raid interests slowing down beginning raids and switching members in and out of raids. 

Basically, I'm a person that likes PVP but doesn't want to be bothered when I'm trying to level or do PVE activities with friends.  Battlegrounds work perfectly for this.  Flagging works perfectly for this.  This isn't saying though that I don't like PVP games or servers, I just don't think they work very well in the diku framework (I didn't like it on the few DIKU muds I played either).

[Mr_PeaCH]

Thanks a lot everyone for your replies.

Well, I actually enjoyed myself in Shadowbane, so I'm definately not open-PvP-adverse, but a lot of that had to do with the group I ran with.  Starting from scratch with no guild to claim I suppose I can content myself with the PvEs for now.  Hell, I still am trying to figure out what class I want to play.  My highest so far is a Hunter (20).  Oh, and I love the Horde and the Tauren starting zones.  The game is very fun to play solo so far which is always good for me given my lack of time to devote.  I haven't even bothered trying to get in PUGs to do some of the instances and I've been meaning to do that for the loot.

But you've all given me a lot to think about.  I may roll a character on a PvP server to just see for myself.  As some have mentioned, I do like the tingle of excitement that PvP servers give; when you just never know what could happen next.  Anyway, I'm in the process of trying to track down some old guildies and see what they're up to and what server they're on.

Speaking of re-roll fever... recommended solo race/class combos?
Hunters and Warlocks seem to do very well what with the pets.  How are Shamans and Druids?  I take it they're more group friendly but still have a lot of solo utility?

[Rasix]

Shaman and druids are great for soloing.  Healing + DPS + buffs.  Druids get bear form and shaman get to wear mail.  Lots of survivability and you can take on multiple mobs without too much trouble.  Druids have a small problem with not having a reliable way to snare runners (root isn't fast enough sometimes and it's outdoor only).  I mostly soloed a shaman to 60 at launch and now have a 41 druid I'm working on.

For a shaman I'd go with a mostly elemental spec for soloing with some restoration thrown in. For a druid, go feral.  Very effective soloer and they cleaned up the tree a lot with the latest update.

Any class can solo though.  Funny contrast to EQ is that a priest can be one of the most effective soloers in the game.

PS. What server are you on?

[Kail]

Speaking of re-roll fever... recommended solo race/class combos?
Hunters and Warlocks seem to do very well what with the pets.  How are Shamans and Druids?  I take it they're more group friendly but still have a lot of solo utility?

For soloing, generally the DPS classes level faster and easier.  Rogues, mages to a degree, warlocks, and warriors if you have gold to burn for gear.  Hunters are probably the fastest I've seen, in my experience, but they're also the most common and therefore the least in demand for grouping.

Shamans are pretty solid solo, but they've got fairly poor mana efficiency, which means significant downtime (well, significant compared to a hunter.  I'd say they're overall about average in solo PvE).  They're comparatively poor healers, but the fact that they can heal at all makes them sought after for groups.  They rock in PvP, though.  Druids are a bit better at healing, and there are very very few of them on the Horde, so they're pretty sought after.  But they're kind of slow to level solo (especially at low levels).

[Mr_PeaCH]

PS. What server are you on?

Stormrage (I think... so many servers and they all sort of blur together)

When I get around to rolling a Horde char on a PvP I'm looking at Shattered Hand.

[Rasix]

But they're kind of slow to level solo (especially at low levels).

I hit 30 on my druid far faster than any of my other characters.  I have a feeling he's going to clock in at 7 days or less to 60.  My rogue was slower than this.  He's never had a piece of blue gear that wasn't a quest reward either. 

The thing with a druid is that even if you might kill slower, your mana efficiency is amazing.  My usual fight has me popping out of cat form to thrown on a rejuv then back into cat form.  I never have to drink and now that I've innervate, the rare occurence that I do is taken care of.  And even if my kill rate is slow it's still nowhere near as bad as a paladin.  I killed and skinned two mobs in the time it took a paladin (higher level at that) to kill the same mob. 

[Valmorian]

I killed and skinned two mobs in the time it took a paladin (higher level at that) to kill the same mob. 

Speaking of Paladins, the new patch has increased their DPS pretty significantly.  My Prot specced paladin can drop mobs WAY faster than he used to, and with the changes to reckoning taking on 3-4 even level mobs is cake.

[Xanthippe]

I started out on a pve server, played an undead rogue to 53 and grew so bored with the lack of danger and the silly pvp flagging idea that I left and rolled on an alliance pvp server.  (This was before battlegrounds came out).

I really didn't notice the difference until I entered STV, which is pretty much a kill on sight zone.

I don't like to kill on sight, so I do end up getting ganked a lot on my alts.  But when I get frustrated, I can go get my 60 for ganktastic fun.

If I play horde again, I will play on a pvp server.  Pve is just boring for me.

Hunters are awfully fun.  My main is a hunter (also have a 60 priest and a 54 warlock).  I've played most classes to 20 and none are as fun, for me.

[Venkman]

For solo leveling, I'd recommend Rogue or Mage. The former will level faster but the latter is entirely self-sufficient even without any sort of tradeskill. And the leveling speed isn't that different, whether you grind or quest or a mix of both.

If you want to never die though, roll a Priest and spec Shadow :)

[MrHat]

Priests always have a group too.  Less time wasted LFG.

[caladein]

But they're kind of slow to level solo (especially at low levels).

I hit 30 on my druid far faster than any of my other characters.  I have a feeling he's going to clock in at 7 days or less to 60.  My rogue was slower than this.  He's never had a piece of blue gear that wasn't a quest reward either. 

The thing with a druid is that even if you might kill slower, your mana efficiency is amazing.  My usual fight has me popping out of cat form to thrown on a rejuv then back into cat form.  I never have to drink and now that I've innervate, the rare occurence that I do is taken care of.  And even if my kill rate is slow it's still nowhere near as bad as a paladin.  I killed and skinned two mobs in the time it took a paladin (higher level at that) to kill the same mob. 

Your first 10-15 levels after getting Cat Form are great, but leveling starts to suck in the last bit (around the same time Rogue gets annoying to level). It's not nearly as bad as a Rogue simply because you can heal, but you will be drinking a lot (even as Feral). Not too sure now though, with Druids getting such an awesome set of talents it probably helps alleviate that wall of 10+ levels.

[Merusk]

I really didn't notice the difference until I entered STV, which is pretty much a kill on sight zone.

The Expansion is going to be one huge STV.  The first two zones in particular are just going to be ugly on PvP servers.  After spending a few days in Beta I was very glad I didn't reroll on a PvP server.

[SurfD]

I really didn't notice the difference until I entered STV, which is pretty much a kill on sight zone.

The Expansion is going to be one huge STV.  The first two zones in particular are just going to be ugly on PvP servers.  After spending a few days in Beta I was very glad I didn't reroll on a PvP server.

Yep, my server is one of the Hardcore PvP servers (or so we like to brag).  I expect Hellfire Peninsula is going to be neck deep in blood for at LEAST a month after BC hits.  And good luck completing some of those quests on a PvP server without your guild backing you up.  There are a few quests (one of the ones for the REALLY good Blue quest items in an arena thing) that do a ZONE WIDE shout when you start the event.  Every member of the opposite faction within spitting distance is going to make a beeline strait for you when you start one of those things off.

[Zetor]

Yeah... the only upside of me [a European] playing on a PST server is not being bothered much when questing / farming; barely anyone is online when I play, save for a few crazy Aussies. That, and nobody dares to gank an affliction warlock. I may die, but you will, too.  :mrgreen:

Also, a decent levelling alternative for the lv60-70 zones is instances, I hear. You can spend 60->63 just farming the first two instances over and over and over with a good guild group, and it'll be just as fast as solo questing [less varied, though]. Or you can just work on alts if you're REALLY getting frustrated; the hardcore gankers will likely outlevel HFP soon enough.

I've noticed there's a LOT more world pvp lately on my server [Crushridge], due to dishonorable kills getting removed. There are frequently horde raid groups taking over lowbie zones [Darkshire and Lakeshire]. I have my level 60 rogue parked there for such occfasions, just picking out the weakest link and vanishing. :P


-- Z.

[Tale]

I hated playing on a WoW PvP server (Blackrock) for the first few months after launch, despite having really enjoyed triggered-flag PvP systems in SWG and AO. I eventually switched to a "normal" rules server (Proudmoore), where PvP is still an everyday thing, but the community is slightly less vomitous. I was allergic to being ganked by squads of b.net kiddies who truly thought they were being l33t, as opposed to just the unpleasant gankers you find in other games. Can't imagine that levelling up on a PvP server would be much fun these days with everyone 60 and waiting for the expansion, in a game full of typical WoW players.

[caladein]

Can't imagine that levelling up on a PvP server would be much fun these days with everyone 60 and waiting for the expansion, in a game full of typical WoW players.

Having leveled up two 60s on PvP servers (NE Druid, Daggerspine and UD Priest, Wildhammer) and working on my third (Orc Rogue, WH), leveling on a PvP server really isn't that bad. You'll get ganked occasionally, but it's usually just someone passing through. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've been corpse camped. It's just too easy to get away, and too much of a waste of time for whoever is camping you.

On the "full of 60s" comment I quoted, it's the exact opposite. You don't get camped because most people worry about you getting on your 60 main in uber gear that you probably don't even have. Even after the latest patch and people started raiding cities again, you can always move to the other zone in your level range. I admit that high traffic zones like E/WPL, Searing Gorge, and STV are bad, but you're rarely if ever forced to go there, there's simply too many options available elsewhere.

[Xanthippe]

Seems to me to be easier to level up on a pvp server now than it was a few months after launch.

Frankly, the whole pve flagging thing bored me to tears.  I'd rather put up with the ganking in order to have more fun world pvp on occasion. YMMV.

[Fraeg]

been on a pvp server since release (blackrock, horde)

yeah at release anything that moved was attacked by the opposite faction.

And really at this point, there are enough people who are simply leveling alts that the release gankfest is non existent.  Generally speaking if you are grinding an alt, 100 feet from you is someone from the opposite faction doing the same thing.  And neither of you attack each other because both of you are more interested in lvling than low lvl pvp.

Of course plenty of exceptions, bored 60s strolling through etc.  But really it is not that rough to lvl on pvp servers that have been around.

The flipside to this is if you want non instanced pvp there are certain areas you can head to where you know you can find action

silithius
epl
black rock spire
to name a few.

So really, I would not relegate WoW pvp servers to gankfest status.

that said i have to agree with the above poster that when BC is released it will be mayhem in some zones