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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Everquest 2  |  Topic: No, EQ2 doesn't share the same engine of SWG 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: No, EQ2 doesn't share the same engine of SWG  (Read 13528 times)
Soukyan
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Reply #70 on: July 30, 2004, 07:29:18 AM

Quote from: TripleDES
So I was trying to warez me the EQ2 Starter Kit and found out that it is FREAKIN A 482 MEGS ISO! WTF!


Well, umm, the starter kit did come on TWO CDs, so that could have something to do with it. Apparently what you're attempting to get is just the second CD info with the character creator. I doubt anyone would bother with the movies as they're already freely available for download from SOE.

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TripleDES
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Reply #71 on: July 30, 2004, 07:36:37 AM

The release is specifically tagged as CD2 and Character Creator. 480megs is a bit much for a CC, I suppose there's loads of other crap on CD2?

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Soukyan
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Reply #72 on: July 30, 2004, 07:56:09 AM

Quote from: TripleDES
The release is specifically tagged as CD2 and Character Creator. 480megs is a bit much for a CC, I suppose there's loads of other crap on CD2?


Nope, just the character creator. Did you forget how much space the assets for the entire game are going to take? Last count I heard was that they're up to 8 CDs for the release game.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
Alluvian
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Reply #73 on: July 30, 2004, 08:55:16 AM

I doubt they had much incentive to remove bulk out of the character creation.  They are most likely having a good laugh over the extra size taking more time from those downloading it.  While at the same time they are moving the non-jboots movement speed down day by day, heh.

SOE is supposed to be evil afterall, so just go with it.  There are probably 300 megs of textures that just say "HAHA" on them.
MrHat
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Reply #74 on: July 30, 2004, 08:59:13 AM

Quote from: Alluvian

SOE is supposed to be evil afterall, so just go with it.  There are probably 300 megs of textures that just say "HAHA" on them.


I'm showing 388MB installed.  I wouldn't be surprised if you are right Alluvian.
El Gallo
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Reply #75 on: July 30, 2004, 09:20:42 AM

I have found that I really like WoW's ubiquitous "bind on equip" as a solution that cuts down on mudflation a lot while still allowing a trade economy, and avoiding the annoyance of repair.

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Soukyan
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Reply #76 on: July 30, 2004, 09:30:28 AM

Quote from: El Gallo
I have found that I really like WoW's ubiquitous "bind on equip" as a solution that cuts down on mudflation a lot while still allowing a trade economy, and avoiding the annoyance of repair.


So how does this "bind on equip" work? Does this mean I can't carry several bind-on-equip armor items to swap on and off, or does it just mean once you loot the item and wear it once, you can no longer drop or trade it? That would suck if it worked like a cursed piece of equipment that had to be destroyed if you wanted to replace it to wear something else.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
El Gallo
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Reply #77 on: July 30, 2004, 10:03:20 AM

The latter.  When you find it, you can trade it.  Once you put it on, you cannot trade it.  You can still take it off and on all you want, and you can still sell it to an NPC vendor (nobody else can buy it from the vendor).  

WoW uses this for most of the good loot that drops randomly.  The good loot that drops from particular mobs (usually bosses in instances) tends to be "bind on pickup" to prevent farming.  Those you can only sell to a vendor or destroy once you loot them.

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Venkman
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Reply #78 on: July 30, 2004, 10:52:07 AM

Quote from: Hrose
Make me an example of an object like a box or whatever, that isn't a building, and that will allow my character to not be in direct contact with the ground. I mean something I can climb. There is NO collision system (that isn't a general "box").

Again, that's not a function of the engine. It's a function of developer choice. And if any collision system in any MMORPG is anything but a general "box" (or strung-together boxes), I'd love to hear about it.

Quote from: El Gallo
WoW uses this for most of the good loot that drops randomly. The good loot that drops from particular mobs (usually bosses in instances) tends to be "bind on pickup" to prevent farming. Those you can only sell to a vendor or destroy once you loot them.

That's a pretty compelling solution actually. Nice way to mitigate the min/maxxers who realize they only got a 0.5% effectiveness boost after parsing their four-hour logs from screwing up the economy.
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Reply #79 on: August 01, 2004, 02:48:07 PM

Yeah 480MB for the chargen is friggin huge.  But the game itself will be multiple DVDs, so comparitivly it's tiny, right?!  It's going to be a bloated storage space hog, that's for damn sure.  (For comparison, EQlive is taking up 4.81 gigs on my hard drive at the moment.)

I would expect the EQ2 j-boots will be a permanent run buff like those currently in EQlive.  They can go ahead and do this because it's been stated several times that EQ2 will strip/suspend movement buffs and slow your movement down when you're in combat mode in order to elminate the kiting "problem" that plagued EQlive.

I've been following EQ2 and WoW for a while now.  I'm not sure which will be the more 'casual friendly' game.  I'm beginning to suspect neither will, though becuase both are inviting the hardcore and using their feedback to develop the games.  C'est la vie.  I'll still check both of them out  and see which has better combat options for the melee types. (Preferably in beta) CoH has done great in this regard with the scrappers.  If I don't get that level of play I'll just move along and  see if casters are worthwhile.  If not, many dollars in monthly subs will be saved on my end.

If it came down to style, I'd pickup WoW hands down.  Polys don't impress me, and much less so when you create models like the EQ2 ones with all of them.  I'll echo Big Gulp's call for some pink slips. Even when they move they're still stiff and unimpressive. They look more like they're moving along planes than any type of natural movement.  Bring back Milo, bish.

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Numtini
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Reply #80 on: August 01, 2004, 08:51:25 PM

Quote
I'm not sure which will be the more 'casual friendly' game.


It would be hard for me to imagine a more casual friendly game than WOW. Mind you, I hated the game, but it's all solo. Very very very dumbed down and very very easy to play with a low commitment required to play and succeed at.

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Reply #81 on: August 01, 2004, 10:09:25 PM

Quote from: Numtini
Quote
I'm not sure which will be the more 'casual friendly' game.


It would be hard for me to imagine a more casual friendly game than WOW. Mind you, I hated the game, but it's all solo. Very very very dumbed down and very very easy to play with a low commitment required to play and succeed at.


That's not much better.  Casual friendly doesn't have to = 'stupidly simple.' It just means that you shouldn't be required to dole out chunks of your life in 5+ hour chunks on a regular basis to advance in game.  That's what I see as 'low commitment'  Low-commitment doesn't have to = 'dumbed down'.  CoH is also low-commitment but it's got some decently complex mechanics. It just lacks depth of game experiences.  

Meh. I'm still unimpressed then.

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Venkman
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Reply #82 on: August 02, 2004, 11:01:06 AM

The deeper issue is using "time" as a rating in "casual" at all. The true casual do not sit down and say "I have 2.5 hours to play, I will therefore do a quest and work on achieving 25% more skill in crafting." They say "I'm going to play a game for a bit of time. I'll leave when I get bored or something more interesting comes along".

Sure, experienced MMOGs know how to scale their per-session expectations to 20 minutes or 5 hours ("I'll log in to check harvesters", "I'll log in to do a quick task", "I'll log in to move myself to a more convenient point for hunting tonight"). But they're experienced. And they accept the rules of the game because they do have the time to invest, and mentally justify doing so.

Until devs understand this, and stop with the nonsense about "we've reduced 5 hours to a 2 hour investment", they'll keep missing the point. Planetside is the closest to a "casual" game. CoH comes closer, but inevitably scales into truer MMORPGs by the teen levels.

If WoW can keep the casualness throughout, they'll score good with the true casual who're coming to MMORPGs for their first time through Blizzards godlike status. But they aren't coming looking to invest time. They are coming to play until bored.
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Reply #83 on: August 02, 2004, 02:55:31 PM

Quote from: Darniaq
They are coming to play until bored.

So they are probably coming to catassing.

I don't mean that WoW is so perfect that it's impossible to feel bored. But if you are it means that you'll probably choose to cancel directly. If the game appeals you, instead, you'll never encounter a point in the game where there's a "pause" that leaves you with nothing to do or the feel of emptiness.

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Numtini
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Reply #84 on: August 02, 2004, 04:24:47 PM

Quote
It just means that you shouldn't be required to dole out chunks of your life in 5+ hour chunks on a regular basis to advance in game


Then WOW fits the bill. It doesn't require blocks of time; friends; research into items, spells, and so on; or staying very much in practice. One of my friends loves it, but she hated other MMO games. She described it as Diablo 2 in 3d. It's not quite that, but it's closer to that than any of the larger MMO games.

While the blocks of time drive me loopy, the lack of the rest of it left me wondering why I should play a pay to play game rather than just playing a free one. In that sense, I think WOW's big competition isn't EQ2, it's guild wars.

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Reply #85 on: August 02, 2004, 09:21:20 PM

I thought it was established that WoW was D2 in 3D? At least, that was the impression I thought many of us had from last E3.

Not that it matters. I'm right with ya. The reason I can't pay for CoH is the lack of anything to do. WoW is exactly the opposite, but may be lacking the other thing that compels me to pay: reasons to do stuff with other people.

No worries though. Fun can be fun by itself. Whatever else WoW can be only matters at the 29th day.
Big Gulp
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Reply #86 on: August 02, 2004, 10:06:08 PM

Quote from: Darniaq

But they aren't coming looking to invest time. They are coming to play until bored.


I'd argue that those are exactly the kind of people who won't pay a monthly fee for a game.  At their very core, these games require a certain amount of obsessiveness.  That's what most differentiates them from other genres.  Oh sure, you could point out the multiplayer element, put really I think that's just window dressing.  You can try to minimize it, put to a certain extent these games are all about power gaming.

These aren't just games, they're also geekboy dick waving contests, and that's deep down why people are willing to shell out $15 a month for them.
Venkman
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Reply #87 on: August 02, 2004, 10:25:30 PM

I agree there :) I MMOGs are still sort of a sub-niche off of RPG in my opinion. They're not the sorta thing the average Sims players jumps right into. That's why I was hoping Guild Wars would usher in a different direction. Massive without the fee, doable through expansion. Like how PS should be.

But I was more referring to casual MMOGers. The folks that just leave without looking back. The ones who don't bother with game forums much less the meta communities like here. I suspect that's who SOE is thinking will be their ticket to a doubling of the account base or something.

Not that I agree of course. JTL is still an expansion (and initially sold only as an expansion) to a not-very-Star-Warsy game that requires a monthly fee. I personally think it'll do well, but more for ex-SWGers than a whole new age of new ones.

And really not at all for the casual gamer. They've moved on to Consoles for their space sim fixes, or keep playing Freespace 2 :)
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Reply #88 on: August 02, 2004, 11:41:17 PM

Space sims on console?  Don't make me laugh.  Space sims all universally suck on consoles because of the television resolution limitations.
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Reply #89 on: August 03, 2004, 12:43:37 AM

Quote from: Alluvian
Space sims on console?  Don't make me laugh.  Space sims all universally suck on consoles because of the television resolution limitations.


This means you haven't played Colony Wars.

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geldonyetich
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Reply #90 on: August 03, 2004, 12:49:54 AM

I thought Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter was pretty good myself.

angry.bob
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Reply #91 on: August 03, 2004, 08:31:20 AM

Quote from: Darniaq
The reason I can't pay for CoH is the lack of anything to do. WoW is exactly the opposite, but may be lacking the other thing that compels me to pay: reasons to do stuff with other people.


Rawr. You can always join the Bob horde and do Bobish things with those of us still around who will be Bobs. There are many group-friendly Bob activities to engage in... suicidal mass attacks, Shouting demoralizing messages in town, mocking the French (or in this case the smelly gnomes) are just a few.

For more information and some fairly wretched, faggy WoW fiction check out the Bob website. Sadly, it's been very neglected since we bought a 97 year old house and started rehabbing it.

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