Heroes (SPOILERS)

[Nevermore]

That's because he keeps buying new powers instead of spending his XP on the ones he already has. 

[Tebonas]

I don't think Peter is stupid, he's just easily led because he's all too eager to help people. Though he hasn't convinced me, Adam has had 400 years to learn how to manipulate Peter, and we don't know all the conversation they had while Peter was locked up with him. Suresh has the same problem, way too trusting of what people say.

The thing is, Peter can read minds. He showed this very episode that he can do it as needed. He shouldn't be that easily manipulated. Trusting or not, at least try to get all possible information if two people say different things about the same occurence (Pratt vs Adam).

[Riggswolfe]

The thing is, Peter can read minds. He showed this very episode that he can do it as needed. He shouldn't be that easily manipulated. Trusting or not, at least try to get all possible information if two people say different things about the same occurence (Pratt vs Adam).

Yeah, but Peter still seems to not totally understand how to turn his powers on at will. He seems to use them instinctively in great need, and I guess he didn't feel the need at the moment. His powers, and how he uses them, have plot device written all over them. He'll use whatever power is needed to move the story forward at that moment.

[Evildrider]

Peter is the naive hero on the show.  He's out to do the right thing, but he goes about it so blindly he doesn't always catch what is really going on fully. 

[Venkman]

The niave hero thing, I agree with. The heroes of last season are all pretty one-dimensional though. The thing that's pissing me off this season is that there's really been no real advancing storyline at all, and I blame the dialog. Every Noah, Suresh, and Bob conversation is just a bunch of hackneyed oneliners where nobody understands the others' motivations and are too stupid to even ask. That was bad enough until this recent episode where Hiro goes for Peter with almost no dialog beforehand. These guys saved freakin' New York together and don't give each other the benefit of the doubt?

Oh, and Peter and Adam walking around the facility in Odessa with nobody asking them what's what? Try walking into any distribution facility or factory and time how long it takes before you're asked why you're there.

The prior two episodes felt sped up through some great editing and cutting of bullshit stuff. This episode felt like everything prior to that with completely irrelevant storylines about characters and plots nobody cares about. Filler stuff. Mica's cousin needs to become St Joan or whatever to save a medal he got from a guy that was implausibly killed (saveable if angsty Nikki gets to go all Jessica on those punks) while Maya loses the brother nobody liked and beds the powerless has-been-psycho who's got no real reason to be on the show anymore (saveable if Parkman gets to introduce Sylar to his own recursive mental funhouse)

The finale better rock something serious or, well, I'll fume until I forget and watch the next season's premiere if it comes.

[stray]

Well, Hiro did know Adam pretty well, knows he killed his father, sees Peter conjure up a ball of lightning in his hand and tells him to leave...

Can't really blame him for charging in, I guess.


The show isn't all that great right now though, I agree. Hell, the only reason I keep sticking with it, and not giving up like I do with EVERYTHING ELSE is the comic book/superhero thing. I'm a real sucker for this stuff, but it's just not playing out all that well.

P.S. Smallville's better, "cape" or not.

[Nerf]

Oh, and Peter and Adam walking around the facility in Odessa with nobody asking them what's what? Try walking into any distribution facility or factory and time how long it takes before you're asked why you're there.

I've done this on more than one occasion back when I was still selling, the trick is to not look like you're lost and walk with some authority, people tend to leave you the fuck alone.

[Merusk]

Oh, and Peter and Adam walking around the facility in Odessa with nobody asking them what's what? Try walking into any distribution facility or factory and time how long it takes before you're asked why you're there.

I've done this on more than one occasion back when I was still selling, the trick is to not look like you're lost and walk with some authority, people tend to leave you the fuck alone.

This works in any building.  We took a whole group of 10 college-aged Architecture students to the top of the Chiquita building and were standing in one of their conference rooms admiring the view before anyone thought to ask, "why are you here?"

[Riggswolfe]

I need to update my "two will fall" wishlist:

Maya
Nikki

Get rid of both women whose only role on the show is to whine and cry please.

[stray]

All of the women in this show have been pretty lame, in one way or another, except Claire and Mama Petrelli.

[MrHat]

I can forgive the Nikki character if she starts punching holes through walls and shit.

[kaid]

Make jessica take over for good I have no problem with homicidal psycho ass kicking wenches. The crying snivling thing has simply got to stop.

[Hoax]

People they could kill and it would make me happy:
Sylar
Nikki
the stupid black cousin chick
Suresh
Bob
West
Maya

Please, kill some of them, P L E A S E

In the perfect world they kill the cousin which makes Micah stop wanting to be a hero and him and Nikki just fade out of the story.  Kill anybody else on the list too but I think killing the cousin could be the best way to remove a useless side plot from the show.

[Evildrider]

I wonder if Sylar is going to regret not taking Maya's brothers power.  Not that he could have, but I don't even think Sylar knew he had one.

I think Nikki/Jessica would be fine if they just got rid of the multiple personality disorder part.

[Mazakiel]

So...overall, I liked the episode.  Hiro vs. Peter was nifty.  I was glad to see Maya get shot, sad to see her get the blood.  As to Nathan...wow.  It was not really a surprise, but still....sucks to see him (probably) be gone. 

As to who shot him, I'm fairly certain it'll end up being Noah. 

[Abagadro]

Can't Peter just open up a vein right there and bring him back?

[Velorath]

With Maya having a little more control over her power now, and with her brother gone, she has the potential to not be as annoying in the future.  Or maybe I'm just giving her the benefit of the doubt because I think all TV shows could use an attractive latin woman.

Not sure if Nathan will end up dead or not.  If they really planned to kill him off this quickly, it almost seems like a waste to go through the effort of bringing him back from his uncertain fate at the end of last season.  Besides, one of the first rules of comics has always been that until you see the dead body, you should assume the character isn't dead.  Even after you see the body, it's suspect for that matter.

[Evil Elvis]

I hope Nathan stays dead.  I liked the character, but bringing everyone back from the dead gets old fast.  I wish Nikki would have been the one to go for reals, but you just know she's going to turn out to be alive.

[Nerf]

Why did they have to not only bring back the mexican, but at the same time give Sylar his power back?  He's such a lame fucking evil villian, at least Adam had some tact and purpose, Sylar is just so..meh.

I don't have high hopes for season 3 at this point, especially with the newfound Peek-a-boo death plot device.

Also, why wouldn't Peter just freeze time for a moment the instant his brother gets shot?  I can understand that he hasn't quite mastered the ability to travel back and forth very well yet, but stopping time would at least let you catch the assassin.  And the cute little irish girl?  Wouldn't she just cease to be now that she was dragged into a timeline that no longer exists, or at the very least continue to live in that alternate timeline that Peter will never get to see now (and therefore could never go get her, since traveling into the future would take him to a different timeline, where she isn't)

[Riggswolfe]

My thoughts on the finale:

1)I cheered when Sylar shot Maya and groaned when she was brought back to life.
2)Peter was almost irredeemably stupid in this episode. I mean the writing for him was terrible, or he's had a brain aneurysm that killed off most of his brain. And what was he about to do to Hiro before Matt intervened? It almost looked like he was about to kill him to me. I lost a ton of my liking for Peter in this episode.
3)Nikki's death was cheesy and just when she finally acted like a bad ass for the right reason. And without powers!
4)I, for one, am glad too see Sylar with his powers back. I think he's a great villain. They need more villains.
5) Hiro burying Adam alive was awesome. It also means Adam can come back at some point and probably will.
6)I agree. Noah probably shot Nathan. On the plus side, I think Noah is a much better character when he is borderline evil and working for the company, so I'm glad they figured out a way to bring him back. I wonder what will become of Claire now? One of her dads is dead, and the other one is back to his old ways.

[Tebonas]

I hope it it wasn't Noah. Killing the bio dad of his daughter? Thats too daytime soap for my tastes.

[SnakeCharmer]

What a shitty shit shit episode.

 - Mohinder was one of my favorite characters, probably the best written.  He's got no problem killing HRG, but turns into a pussy when it comes to killing the guy who killed his father?  Weaksauce.
 - I was happy when Maya died.  Sad when she came back to life
 - Nathan dying sucks.  But will probably be brought back to life 
 - Cool way to get rid of Adam, but sucks the best villian is supposedly dead
 - Syler is still a shitty villian.
 - Weren't they at a police station when Nathan got capped?

[kaid]

Oh boy if adam wanted to kill off almost everybody before he is going to be hell on earth when he eventually either digs his way out or gets dug up. He is immortal and constantly regenerates eventually given enough time he will be able to dig himself out. And by the time he does he is going to be totally batshit insane.

[HaemishM]

I liked the episode. I was very surprised by the Nathan shooting, and yes, it has to be Noah that did it. Who else would they send?

Peter and Hiro fight was cool, if over too soon. Peter zapping the sword, then walking all badass down the hallway tossing guards left and right is a good payoff to his growing badassitude. I was really hoping he wasn't going to kak Hiro but it sure had a Sylar feel to it. I think Peter is just so naive and easily led. He wants to believe Adam, he wants to believe he's doing the right thing and saving the world that he makes huge judgement errors. Losing his brother may finally give him the shock to the system he needs.

Nikki's dead most likely. I don't really mind that, though one less hot chick is not always a good thing. I actually started like Ellie in this episode.

Cheered when Maya got shot, groaned when she was healed. FUCK CAN'T WE KILL THIS DUMB BITCH ALREADY?

I like Sylar as a villain, but they really need to write some more sinister, asskicking villains. Adam was ok, but I never got the sense he'd really taken advantage of 400 years of experience to build his evilness. Maybe we'll finally see a big bad guy behind the company, or Bob will become even more creepy evil. Being that the third volume is called Villains, I'm going to assume we'll get some right badass evil going on.

But damnit, we need to keep some of the flying men characters. They don't use that power nearly enough.

[Kirth]

I liked the episode. I was very surprised by the Nathan shooting, and yes, it has to be Noah that did it. Who else would they send?

A Peter from the future where the heroes reviled screws things up..again. Is their any plot this show does that doesn't involve time traveling to the future seeing some horrible fate to mankind and then armed with this knowledge trying to change the past?

Also Adams reaction when he sees Hiro was disappointing, what happened to "Everything you love will be distroyed by me" (or something to that effect).

[SnakeCharmer]

The guy playing Adam has much better acting chops than the yahoo playing Sylar.  Nevermind the fact that Sylar's now wearing one of those goddamned pseudomohawkAlltelChad haircuts...Anyway, his turn as a bad guy was believable.  Maybe it was the accent, but I'm looking forward to seeing post-buried alive pissed off Adam in the Villains series.

This season, which the exception of a couple scenes, has sucked.  Hard.  So much potential wasted.

Edit:  Is it just me, or are they trying to push HRG back towards his seemingly unknown motive approach, where you didn't really know if he was a good guy or bad guy?  Kinda hard to go back to that, isn't it?

Second edit:  Add Sylar to the spell checker.  kthxbai.

[Riggswolfe]

Also Adams reaction when he sees Hiro was disappointing, what happened to "Everything you love will be distroyed by me" (or something to that effect).

400 years happened.

[K9]

I liked this episode; I think it leaves stuff nicely on the boil for volume 3. I agree with all those who think Noah shot Nathan, and I was irked to see Nathan go, as he seemed to be steadily gaining strength over much of the season; seeing him come full circle back from the drunk hobo to the clear-minded and purposeful politician, only now with a true purpose seemed like too good a story to just throw away. That said, I hope he stays dead, the "magic blood" device should never have entered the show, and should be used as sparingly as possible, if at all.

Peter was really hit and miss, his confrontation with Hiro, tossing gurads around and destroying the virus (the symbol in the dust was a tad lame I thought though) was pretty cool. But his baffled inactivity when Nathan lay dying, and his insistence to rip the vault open by telekinsis didn't ring true. Evidently there was a seed of doubt in his mind regarding adam, and if so, why did he go to all the trouble to pull the door off its hinges when he could have just phased through and torched the virus, removing any Adam-risk from the process. I still love Peter, as one of the few morally good people in the show, but he needs to get a little more decisive and a little more assertive; like future peter.

I liked the Hiro-Adam showdown, and I am pretty sure we'll see Adam again. He's an awesome villain, and I think his whole "the slate shall be wiped clean/I shall be their hero" plot seemed to have much undeveloped potential. I must admit I half expected Hiro to warp Adam back millions years into the past or something. Seeing him surrounded by dinosaurs and screaming in impotent rage would have been fun; but I think I'm happy that he could be returning to the show.

Nikki - meh. She was growing on me, but I'm not going to miss her. DL was always cooler in my view.

I'm glad Sylar is back and bad. I have half a mind that part of the reason they ressurected Maya is so that he can fulfil his "After I get my powers back, I'll relieve you of yours" statement. So hopefully she'll be victim number one in volume 3. I honestly can't see where else they'll take her character; in retrospect she seems so woefully superfluous, and I'm intrigued as to what the long-goal was for her, before the mid-season shift of pace and direction. Having sylar back is great though; I think he's a fascinating villain, and a well crafted counterpoint to the other "heroes".

I'm glad to see Matt swinging back towards the path of good, and Mama Petrelli getting all shady again. I'm looking forward to the next season.

edit: Is there anyone in this show who isn't morally grey, other than Adam and Sylar (Bad) and Hiro and Peter (Good)?

[Venkman]

Finally watched it. Really not impressed.

The whole season seemed to start with Maya being some sort of virus that was going to take everyone out, and Sylar using her to achieve biologically what he couldn't achieve atomically. But they seemed to realized nobody liked that crap. Maybe it was the whole powerless-Sylar or the reluctant villain or just the crappy plot device used way to office (bloody eyes not as much fun to watch as flying and lightning). Whatever, it just wasn't working, compounded on the other stuff they said wasn't working.

So instead they hash out this other virus thing that is no longer in a moral grey area, something easier to grasp: Company bad, Noah/Parkman/Peter good. Call it "Shanti" to tie it to Mohinder, to justify his otherwise rather useless role on the show, eck out a few more episodes, edit what you can before the writers walked, and cap the season.

Peter fighting was cool. I loved the dueling with Parkman, though the Hiro one was cool as well. He really is pretty dumb though. He's known Adam a few months but believed in Hiro enough to stop NYC blowing up. All he needed to do was thought-stop Hiro, interrogate him and read his mind. It's not like he ever though Hiro was with the Company or anything.

Sylar getting his powers back is interesting. In the context of the rest of the characters, he's fine as a villain. Not a great one in general.

That magic blood has to go though. Adam's inaccessible (feh, I'd have buried him in the Sun)* though so there's just Claire.

* someone mentioned leaving him a million years ago. Since he didn't need to eat, all he really needed to do was stay outta the way while evolution continued. I wonder if he could have lived 65 million years? Heck, I wonder if Hiro can actually travel back that far? Seems he's restricted only to places he's been to or read about maybe?

Edit: Oh, and as to who shot Nathan? I don't think it's Noah, mostly because Nathan is Claire's real dad. That'd just be way too far a stretch to believe after all he's done for her, he'd risk that sorta thing ever being found out.

If you look at the way the guy was leaving the area though, specifically how he was walking, he actually walks very much like Peter. Would be odd, but it's been established that time travelers like Hiro can be in the same place as their older or younger self.

[Abagadro]

If Hiro took Adam back 65 million years he could have killed off humanity by just running around smooshing butterflies.

[Velorath]

The whole season seemed to start with Maya being some sort of virus that was going to take everyone out, and Sylar using her to achieve biologically what he couldn't achieve atomically.

Didn't really seem that way to me at all.

[Jain Zar]

Im more pissed Sylar isn't dead than anything else.

I really hate the character.  Not appealing and entirely too powerful.  He is your average anime megavillain cept smarmier.  2 sucky tastes that multiply!

Elle going from crazy nymphette to someone with an actual personality was cool.  Hope she becomes a regular.  Wouldnt mind seeing Maya go the fuck away, hopefully taking Sylar down in the process. 

Don't really care about Nikki or her generally unrelated to the main plot nonsense anyhow.  Every time she interacted with the main story it was pretty lame and forced.  Her family's tale is over.  Go bye bye if its gonna be this lame and uninteresting.  It was near Maya level of suck. 

Hiro was channeling David Tenant Dr Who there though.  Putting the guy in a sealed coffin?  OUCH.  Its almost worse than killing him.  But that's cool because Adam was a kickass villain.   Style and megalomania!

[MrHat]

I think the most likely outcome of blowing up Nikki and titling the next season "Villans" is that Mikkah becomes a villan.  Which would be great to watch.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I think the most likely outcome of blowing up Nikki and titling the next season "Villans" is that Mikkah becomes a villan.  Which would be great to watch.

I hadn't thought of that but man it would make for a nice twist, heck even the fact that his cousin is all about the physical and him all about the technological, would make for a great arch-nemesis there.

One thing I don't get is hate on Sylar.  Personally I think he's a great villain.  He's not a Doctor Doom/Magneto style villain though.  One thing I think is the main problem is that for a while he was the only villain and while definately popular, people see him as the 'main' villain.  Honestly Sylar has always been more a force than a villain, he's a power-hungry psychopath that has no agenda beyond his own hands.  For what he is, I like him. The actor plays that crazy/cunning bent really well such that I do feel like he's just some sort of animal looking to eat.

What I think confuses so many people about this show is that we immediately want to shoehorn people into roles.  A lot of people want tights and super heroes battling super villains.  I don't have anything wrong with that persay and the show might one day go there but one thing I realized from the beginning is that sylar and characters like him may not ever be 'super' in the grand sense of comics.  Adam was a supervillain, maybe not the best but his personality and tact is what made him one and it's no suprise a lot of people loved him for it. 

Not sure where I'm going with this, just nit-picking. Really what we should be arguing is why peter is so goddamned retarded he didn't just phase through the door.

[HaemishM]

Really what we should be arguing is why peter is so goddamned retarded he didn't just phase through the door.

Or stop time when the virus vial was falling, or stop time and conk Matt instead of fighting him with telepathy, or teleport both he and Adam into the vault instead of ripping it open...

Peter's powers are so varied and powerful, there's about a hundred ways he can do anything. I'm not sure he could phase, even though he's been around D.L., since I don't know that he has an emotional trigger for D.L.'s powers.