What a MMO can do to some people

[rk47]

An Auto debuff when player hit 8 hour play time daily would be a fix. LOL
Like :
Exhausted (Your character needs sleep, please get some rest for about 5-6 hours and come back again)
MaxMana -25% MaxHP -25% Damage done -25% increment penalty by 10% every 15 minute interval capped at 90%
And reduce game gamma gradually by 10% per 15 minute to simulate difficulty in staying awake. Capped at 90% by that time the only thing you can see if probably the logoff button LMAO.

[Koyasha]

One thing I strongly disagree with in many articles and quotes of this nature is the general sentiment that the friends one makes in these games are not 'real friends' in some way or another.  Obviously there's a clear difference between someone you meet in a game, like playing with there, but never speak to again should you quit playing, and the people you meet in a game and become good friends with even after you drift to separate games or cease playing altogether.  Some of the friends I have made in these games are people I trust more than people I know in person.  In general, the attitude taken in a lot of these tends to be that one must be in a person's physical presence in order to be a 'real friend' which is an attitude that is really quite foolish.

[Nija]

Hey baby. Don't hate the game, hate the players!

[Soln]

this bores me.  People who lose themselves are "losers".

[Nebu]

As much as people like to think that they can, you often cannot save people from themselves.

[Rasix]

As much as people like to think that they can, you often cannot save people from themselves.

Doesn't hurt to try.  I got my roommate to stop playing EQ by presenting the evidence he was close to failing a class for the second time (he needed it for his degree) and losing his then girlfriend (and now wife).   This is probably easier to do with something that isn't physically addictive.

[Sky]

The eqholic was recovered, last I knew. But that ate up three years of his life, lost his house and job, though his dumbass wife stuck with him. I think she finally stopped making EQ and weed payments and he had to get the jizzob.

The kid I know who was addicted to UO got married to some old woman who played UO and now they ignore her kids somewhere in online bliss.

The guy who became an EQ guide/whatever is recovered, though he still gets the shakes to play his female wood elf druid at times.

Everyone I know who was into mmo was scarred by the experience. Even I ignored my social life for a year when I was playing EQ, it just sucks you in with the timesinks. I got out before the major raiding shit, though, only did the oldschool planes and chardok type stuff. I imagine when I get old I'll regret having wasted a whole year in my late 20s playing a computer game.

That's why it's on the bottom of the priority list these days.

[Nebu]

Doesn't hurt to try. 

I agree.  Just saying that the only way people recover is because they want to.  Helping them find the path out is a good thing and you are right to correct me. 

[Yoru]

An Auto debuff when player hit 8 hour play time daily would be a fix. LOL
Like :
Exhausted (Your character needs sleep, please get some rest for about 5-6 hours and come back again)
MaxMana -25% MaxHP -25% Damage done -25% increment penalty by 10% every 15 minute interval capped at 90%
And reduce game gamma gradually by 10% per 15 minute to simulate difficulty in staying awake. Capped at 90% by that time the only thing you can see if probably the logoff button LMAO.

They planned something similar to this initially in WoW. Remember the early days of the rest system, where you were going to eventually get kicked down into some sort of anti-catass "red mode", where all gains were reduced by a sizable percentage? Yeah. That tested out well with the beta group (i.e. catasses), and got replaced by what you know today as the blue bar.

[Chenghiz]

One thing I strongly disagree with in many articles and quotes of this nature is the general sentiment that the friends one makes in these games are not 'real friends' in some way or another.  Obviously there's a clear difference between someone you meet in a game, like playing with there, but never speak to again should you quit playing, and the people you meet in a game and become good friends with even after you drift to separate games or cease playing altogether.  Some of the friends I have made in these games are people I trust more than people I know in person.  In general, the attitude taken in a lot of these tends to be that one must be in a person's physical presence in order to be a 'real friend' which is an attitude that is really quite foolish.

The physical presence of a person is absolutely an important difference between online interaction and in-person interaction. Body language is one of the most basic and instinctive methods by which we communicate, and it's simply not present in an online context (unless you're talking via webcam, I suppose). I think the lack of this mode of comm. in video games like WoW is the reason a lot of the 'drama' in game happens - because it's simply a lot harder to gauge the people you talk with. So yes, communication and meeting people in WoW is quite similar to real life, but it lacks a very vital element of actual relationship-building.

[Soln]

if you think you can maintain a "friendship" with strangers only through the medium of a game (via text IM and audio)  with the only gating criteria being duration ("I've known them in-game for a LONG time"), then may I present Eve-Online as a counter example where there are some wonderful example of people duping others for months at a time (if not more than a year). 

I just feel a lot more obligation to people in the real world than I do online.  I don't take online friends for granted, but I think I have to work harder at those onlinr friendships and be more sceptical/realistic of them as well.

[Xanthippe]

I'm pretty sure that these people came to mmos with problems.  The problems weren't created by mmos.

And Slyfiend's post is the Best In Thread.

[stray]

I feel more comfortable blaming non-entities (like mmo's and the forces that drive them) rather than people.

[HaemishM]

All I can say about the original poster is... Pussy. All that shit you complain about with WoW, it was 20 billion times worse in EQ. Yes, this is the crotchety old man in me saying how I walked uphill through snow 15 miles to play Everquest on a CGA monitor. But he'd have never lasted a year doing that in EQ. Or worse, it'd have taken him 2 years to come to the same conclusion, if he'd lasted that long.

Yeah, it's a grind. But the real problem isn't that the game is grindy (that's the game's problem) it's that the person is obsessive compulsive and doesn't want to admit the problem was him. The game was just his particular poison. Too many people think escapist entertainment is the problem, but the problem is the individual wants to escape.

[Rasix]

And Slyfiend's post is the Best In Thread.

I don't understand why people get caught up in what the douchey guy that introduced the story said.  Anytime someone not connected to gaming communties hears a story of EQ/WoW addiction, ebaying characters, or anything else a lot of people haven't even pondered; they relate the stories with the utmost hyperbole and gross generalizations (often false).  I'm sure after telling my family how I ebayed characters/plat in EQ/insert-mmo-here, they relate stories of how I made thousands doing so and how people playing these games are just itching to buy high level characters.  They know nothing of the reality, just their perception of it and their retelling often resembles a game of "telephone".

Ohh, naughty words. 

[Rasix]

All I can say about the original poster is... Pussy. All that shit you complain about with WoW, it was 20 billion times worse in EQ. Yes, this is the crotchety old man in me saying how I walked uphill through snow 15 miles to play Everquest on a CGA monitor. But he'd have never lasted a year doing that in EQ. Or worse, it'd have taken him 2 years to come to the same conclusion, if he'd lasted that long.

Getting caught up with this in EQ made me just feel stupid.  You could seeing the writing on the wall miles off.  WoW whispers in your ear telling you it's all going to be about content and quests in just about any form you can manage (solo/group). Then you reach the end and it's a different game.  EQ is the same game on all levels. 

WoW can be a game for casuals, rather easily, I've found at 60.  It's just a different game at 60 than at 1-59. 

Yeah, it's a grind. But the real problem isn't that the game is grindy (that's the game's problem) it's that the person is obsessive compulsive and doesn't want to admit the problem was him. The game was just his particular poison. Too many people think escapist entertainment is the problem, but the problem is the individual wants to escape.

It's not the grind that's the issue, it's the core gameplay that Blizzard has built the game around.  Raiding. And yes, it's the person's fault not the game's.  However, I think a more easily accessible game would alleviate some of the pressure to raid in the game and may prevent a few people from diving a little unhealthily into the game.

[HaemishM]

There isn't much more accessibility you can add to raiding other than dropping the lockout timers and auto-scaling the event to the party that spawns the instance. Or having loot that auto-scales power to the difficulty of the opponent whether in PVP or PVE. Of course, at that point why not do away with levels and put some player skill into the game, but then we're not talking about WoW-ku.

Other than that, getting into the raiding is pretty fucking accessible. Leveling to raid levels isn't hard. The item mudflation is the thing that starts to drain accessibility.

WoW's raiding is almost exactly like EQ with a compressed time-to-enter and instancing.

[Rasix]

I'm not talking about making raiding more accessible.  I'm guilty here of using terminology that I haven't clearly defined. 

Pardo and Blizzard consider the 1-59 game their "accessibility".  This is getting people into their game, letting them have fun, and eventually grooming them to the point that they want to partcipate into the core game, which is raiding.  What I'm saying is that a more accessible experience at 60 would give people something interesting to do without them having to partcipate in what Blizzard considers the center of the game.

Battlegrounds are part of this.  Faction grinds (uggh, I hate this shit) are part of this.  Hell, gold farming is part of this. There needs to be more though.  Solo/small group content specifically for people that have gotten to end of the leveling line.  And you mentioned mudflation, mudflation does limit the accessiblity to activities like PVP that should be part of the overall accessibility to the game.  Give casuals/fence sitters a way to combat this without making them jump into raiding. 

Burning Crusade extends the overall accessibility of the game through extending the leveling curve and adding more 5-10 man content and lowering the raiding size requirements.  I'd rather see less of the later and more creative ways of the allowing people to maintain part of the post leveling curve community.  Until I've seen/tried BC I can't really comment if they've made true strides in endgame accessibility other than the superficial gestures like reducing raid size.

[AcidCat]

Burning Crusade extends the overall accessibility of the game through extending the leveling curve and adding more 5-10 man content and lowering the raiding size requirements.  I'd rather see less of the later and more creative ways of the allowing people to maintain part of the post leveling curve community.  Until I've seen/tried BC I can't really comment if they've made true strides in endgame accessibility other than the superficial gestures like reducing raid size.

Don't forget the new honor system which is basically taking the catass out of the old system. Since I don't raid - for reasons this thread has made abundantly clear - for a while I looked to PvP to advance my character at 60 - but even that quickly sours when you get to the middle ranks and realize how much time you're going to have to put in to advance - it's just another system that pressures you to play. The new system is great because you don't have to worry about decay or competition for points - you just gather points at whatever pace you like and eventually cash them in.

I usually make a new character once I get to 60 and get bored. I find the core 1-59 game enjoyable enough to go through several times. But basically I've made a decision to play the game on MY terms. That includes playing without feeling pressure to do so and playing in a way that lets me log out whenever I feel like it.  With a wife and two kids I just can't lock myself into some imaginary commitment to a game. I spend enough time just playing casually - "Sorry Honey I'm on a raid and can't get up for 3 more hours" just doesn't work.

[HaemishM]

The fact that the Blizzard assheads see the raiding game as the core focus of their game tells me all I need to know. McQuaid really has poisoned the MMOG medium for all of us, thanks to his devotees Furor and Tigole. They spread their sickness everywhere.

[Nebu]

The fact that the Blizzard assheads see the raiding game as the core focus of their game tells me all I need to know. McQuaid really has poisoned the MMOG medium for all of us, thanks to his devotees Furor and Tigole. They spread their sickness everywhere.

You just don't get it.  You see... by raiding you get better stuff so that you can kill even tougher monsters and get even better stuff!

[LC]

You just don't get it.  You see... by raiding you get better stuff so that you can kill even tougher monsters and get even better stuff!

Raiding wouldn't have been so bad if you didn't have to raid the same place hundreds of times to collect your loot. I could have handled two or three trips to MC. I'm glad I got banned before my MC raid count reached the twenties.

[stray]

Just how many games have you been banned from anyways? 

[Tale]

One thing I strongly disagree with in many articles and quotes of this nature is the general sentiment that the friends one makes in these games are not 'real friends' in some way or another.

Despite his problems with WoW, the writer of the article linked in the original post says he made some of his best real friends through the game.

[LC]

Just how many games have you been banned from anyways? 

Almost all of them.

[Signe]

I bet I've been banned from more PLACES than naughty LC.  Not all of them MMOs, though.  Some were MUDs and those silly places where you play cards and stuff.  I was also banned from TSN, back in the olden times, twice, and numerous forums.  I didn't deserve any of it though.  I was completely innocent every single time.  People just over-react.  Much of it was for less than I've done right here, in front of all of you.  I am totally misunderstood.   Bastards.

[LC]

Do forum bans count? I have been banned from countless forums. I probably have 15-20 banned IGN accounts. You don't even have a chance if we are counting forums.

Also banned from:

usenet (twice)
4 isps
2 muds
ebay

[Krakrok]

I was also banned from TSN, back in the olden times, twice

What did you do, shoot down a GM's biplane?

[Nebu]

Is getting banned like a nerd badge of honor?

[stray]

I was just curious about LC. I only knew about SB.

I just can't get banned no matter what I do....Then again, my exploits (figuratively and literally) in the online world have all been "accidental".

As for Signe, she's just a freak. Or misunderstood. Either/or.

[Tale]

I was banned from for but they because I . I'd love to tell the story in the thread, but .

Also, another thought about compulsive MMOG playing - one of the things you're getting hooked on is inactivity. If gaming becomes your default behaviour, it cuts into your previous exercise behaviours. Doing nothing but sitting in front of a computer gives you a body made for sitting in front of a computer some more. The more you compulsively play, the more your body prefers playing. A compulsive player has both a physical and mental loop to break and fitness can't be fixed overnight. It takes some hardcore motivation to break out of that.

[stray]

Think of it as "building up xp debt", except in real life.

Don't quit in frustration. There's tons of more wicked content if you lvl up, yo!

Perhaps that's motivation enough. ;)

[rk47]

I'm kinda scared of re-investing time into MMO again myself.After getting my diploma in networking I tried out Lineage 2 and raellly got caught up in a tight clan. Suddenly I dropped my job, and didn't really place much importance in having only 6 months of student visa left (if I don't study or work it doesn't get extended).

By the time my bank account has less than 50 bucks in it and only 1 month of student visa left, I knew I had to quit or die lol. I had to beg my uncle to pay for a ticket home, recover with my parents...who never asked a lot of questions they just think 'I have a temp job in IT line' for 6 months. I still never told em the truth but anyways I got sent back overseas to study for my degree. So yeah here I am now getting addicted to grinding again on City of Villains 2 weeks trial. Fuckage lol.

[Nija]

I was just curious about LC. I only knew about SB.

If you want some good stories ask him to talk about his AO exploits.

[waylander]

Seems everyone is on the same sort of bandwagon these days. We wrote a State of Online Gaming Pt1: MMORPG's article over on our website.

One of the quotes from our article came from a discussion forum for another game, but it hits on the OP's point and the point of some of the folks here.

What many of you don't understand about casual players is their schedule limits. This ISN'T some teenager who bargains with his mom to get 30 hrs / week of play time between homework and dinner and weekends. This is the husband who happens to wake up 90 minutes before his wife and wants to kill time playing a game, and isn't going to even consider browsing the boards waiting for the next scheduled dungeon raid because chances are it's happening the same time he has to do honey-do's. This is the software engineer who hit "compile" on his work machine and has 30 minutes before the result, who's not going to spend 29 of those waiting for groups to form. This is the college student who has 45 minutes between classes and work that's usually busy but today, and today only, can spend those 45 minutes logged into DAoC. This casual gamer can log in and get to 50 on multiple characters, even make LGM crafters and get moderate RR, but next to impossible to synchronize their schedule to rarely ongoing raids or even well-balanced groups.

Either way if MMORPG's don't start putting in more solo content or quick content that someone with an hour or so to game can play, then I forsee the market moving more towards Guild Wars type games.  You still spend time to get good in Guild Wars, but its free and there's no sense of urgency to keep up with your friends. Running guilds in games like that is a cake walk.

The average PC gamer is 30+ years old, and people in that age bracket simply can't play 25-60 hours a week that is required to get anywhere fast in today's MMORPG games.