Teen girl gets in trouble for anti-Bush image on her MySpace page

[shiznitz]

It came up earlier in this thread, so if anyone is interested in a good read about how a total annihilation of our government could play out Executive Decision by Tom Clancy is about that scenario: a terrorist controlled plane crashes into the Capitol while all 535 Congressmen, POTUS and VPOTUS are there. I believe it is the last Jack Ryan book, but I could be wrong.

[HaemishM]

It's also completely illegal. A parent has to be present (or at least give permission) for a minor to be interviewed by police.

Really?  What law requires police to get parental permission to interview a minor as part of investigating the minor for a crime?

You are correct and I was wrong. The law is not required to get parental permission, unless the minor asks to speak with their parent before the interview. At least according to Yahoo Answers.  I misspoke, and I apologize.

I still think it's pretty scummy, considering the parent did not want the child taken out of her class and said so to the officers.

[HaemishM]

Their 15 minute talk was probably more of a put a realization of consequences into the kids head and give her a bit of a scare so that actually starting any kind of more serious process would not be needed.

How much money did that 15-minute talk cost the taxpayers? How much time investigating it was diverted from investigating a threat that wasn't on MySpace, a place known for retardation but hardly a threatening den of Internet terrorists? I'm sure the few thousand bucks they spent on the cash could have been better spent buying a Katrina victim a trailer, or scanning one cargo container at a dock.

[kaid]

Probably so until they ignore the one crazy who actually goes and tries to shoot the president. They are doing the job that they were mandated to do. If that is wasteful then it is something that will need to be looked at but I can't rip on somebody for doing their job by the book as they are supposed to.

Given some of the wackjobs that have assassinated world leaders or tried to even some yutz on myspace could seriously make an attempt.

[HaemishM]

Anyone could make an attempt? A 14-year old girl on MySpace? I'm thinking that unless she's like 5 minutes from the SS office, that's one that can wait.

[bhodi]

Anyone could make an attempt? A 14-year old girl on MySpace? I'm thinking that unless she's like 5 minutes from the SS office, that's one that can wait.

The article noted it took like two months to track her down. I suspect it was not "high priority" but they do have to investigate every occurance. And I'm OK with that. A 20m conversation is not unreasonable. She didn't get labeled a enemy combatant and get extraordinarially renditioned. I am concerned with free speech, press, and my rights as much if not more so than the average guy, but this is an absoloute non-issue.

This isn't even news. It's been happening ever since *I* can remember, and every few years there's a sob story of a child getting a visit from secret service. I knew at a very young age there are just some things you don't joke about publically. It's not infringement of rigthts or harrassment, it's fucking common sense.

No harm was done and maybe she learned a thing or two about discretion, so why is this thread two pages? Stop being retarded and save the outrage for shit that matters.

[Sky]

Stop being retarded and save the outrage for shit that matters.

Again, that's the point. This was handled all professionally, unlike most of what the government has been screwing up. That's why it's outrageous, they can find time to protect the president from myspace but not help our citizens in New Orleans, pages from congressmen, habeus corpus from the president, iraq from cheney, etc.

That's shit that matters in my book.

[bhodi]

Secret service is one branch that has been doing what they do for a long, long time. They also don't fuck around and are generally left alone by the greater governmental whole. There are no political appointees there, they generally don't get replaced by new administrations when they come in, and have a very limited scope of responsibility where people's lives are at stake every day. They get a lot of practice. I've met several, and while they're all cool guys, they display a level of dedicaton that's pretty extraordinary.

They aren't your ordinary beuracrats, and it's really not fair to compare them to the rest of the government.

[Signe]

If they break the law, such as interrogating a minor child without a guardian present, those involved should be prosecuted.  If they do it as policy, they should be disbanded. 

Just sayin'....

[tazelbain]

Yes, we should disband the only functional agency in the government.  The hippies are out in full force today.

[Righ]

Breaking the law is functional? The criminals are out in full force today. Check your macho pride at the door if you're scared of 14 year old girls.

[HaemishM]

There are no political appointees there, they generally don't get replaced by new administrations when they come in

And why is that?

Because these folks save the President and Vice President's asses. When it comes to covering their own asses, our leaders don't fuck around with that. Now if they just had the same respect for FEMA, or the military, or the taxpayers, or Social Security, or health care, or...

[Nebu]

You never know... it could have been a 14 year old girl on the grassy knoll.

[WayAbvPar]

You never know... it could have been a 14 year old girl on the grassy knoll.

No way. Kennedy would have seen her and sent a SS agent up there to get her digits.

[Roac]

Breaking the law is functional? The criminals are out in full force today. Check your macho pride at the door if you're scared of 14 year old girls.

The only law that was mentioned as possibly being broken was by the 14 year old.  And yes, on rare occations 14 year old girls do kill people.  We get about one a year in my state (I just looked due to curiosity), and we're small.

[tazelbain]

Breaking the law is functional? The criminals are out in full force today. Check your macho pride at the door if you're scared of 14 year old girls.

What they did was only breaking the law in Magical Hippyland, and maybe someday in California if they can every get it past the Governator. She made a threat.  She got a stern talking to.  Hardly an evil crimal organization that should be disbanded.  Ya, folks like Nebu can hide behind a "government waste" arguement and you with your "afraid of girls" arguement.  But you guys are just pissed off at the current adminastration and trying to take a few more swipes at them via the Secert Service.  This is completely misguided.  They do good work in a difficult enviroment.  And if the process of doing a through job a girl is sent home crying, so fucking what. At least she has something semi-interesting to post on her blog.

[Righ]

Interviewing or holding a minor without a parent or guardian present is against the law. Also, nobody has proven that the 14 year old girl broke the law. Its up to the courts to decide whether her message was a credible threat or simply political hyperbole. Though I doubt that your fellow pedophobes will do anything that might involve submitting their excesses to judgment.

[Roac]

Interviewing or holding a minor without a parent or guardian present is against the law.

If you would, cite the law.  Otherwise I call bullshit because know better.

Also, nobody has proven that the 14 year old girl broke the law. Its up to the courts to decide whether her message was a credible threat or simply political hyperbole.

You don't need a conviction to question a suspect.  The whole questioning bit occurs before conviction.

[Righ]

Nah, you can have it. I'm not interested in googling law just to argue with you. I think its a waste of resources to have secret service agents chasing after teenagers who post political hyperbole, you don't. Shrug. Like I said, it makes it easier for the real killers and terrorists to do their jobs.

[Signe]

Yes, we should disband the only functional agency in the government.  The hippies are out in full force today.

Everything I looked up, although, said that a parent or guardian had to be present when questioning a juvenile, although not all minors in all states are considered juveniles.  I couldn't find anything about the Secret Service regarding that, but I found loads of complaints about them doing this sort of thing, being aggressive with innocent people, violating free speech, things like that.  They seem just as much a bunch of bullies as an intelligence organisation.  The ACLU just loves them... but, of course, I'm sure you think they're just a bunch of hippies, too.  If they break laws, they should be held accountable. 

And I'm not a hippy so don't call me names unless they're clever or profane.  You wanky plonker, you.

[Big Gulp]

Everything I looked up, although, said that a parent or guardian had to be present when questioning a juvenile, although not all minors in all states are considered juveniles.

What you've read is wrong.  Suck it up.  If a minor tells the authorities that they want their parents present then yes, they have to call the parents.  Same as if someone requests an attorney.  If they don't, too bad, the questioning can continue.  You may not like this, but the law is not determined by what Signe likes.

I couldn't find anything about the Secret Service regarding that, but I found loads of complaints about them doing this sort of thing, being aggressive with innocent people, violating free speech, things like that.  They seem just as much a bunch of bullies as an intelligence organisation.

How is a 15 minute talk regarding a death threat to the President considered bullying?  They are mandated to follow up any threat to the president, no matter how implausible it may be.  That's their fucking job.  They don't have the leeway to say, "Nah, this probably isn't a serious threat, just let it slide".  They have to at least investigate every threat, and in this case it looks like they did that.  They talked to the girl, gave her a warning about doing this kind of thing in the future, and that was that.  No charges were pressed.  This doesn't sound like the thought police, for Christ's sake, it's routine Secret Service duty.  And for the record, they aren't an intelligence organization.  They're law enforcement (in cases of counterfeiting, etc)/protection.  That's it.

The ACLU just loves them... but, of course, I'm sure you think they're just a bunch of hippies, too.  If they break laws, they should be held accountable.

Again, what law was broken?  You bandy about the term as though it means something because you say it does.  YOU ARE WRONG. 

[Signe]

I did say "if" they break laws and it's juveniles, not minors... evidently there is a difference.  That's okay, though... just pick out the bits you want to shout at me about. 

You may not like this, but the law is not determined by what Signe likes.

It should be.  I think I'd make a wonderful boss of everyone.  (I'll make you Minister of Giggles.)

PS  Maybe this should be in politics where I can ignore it properly.

[XboxGod]

I think they were simply making an example out of her. I do believe her parents should have been present, but it never should have happened in the first place. Parents in general need to be more aware of what their children do while on the net.

[Ironwood]

Wheeeeeee.

[Sky]

I think they were simply making an example out of her. I do believe her parents should have been present, but it never should have happened in the first place. Parents in general need to be more aware of what their children do while on the net.

Maybe they could have administered a good spanking.

[Signe]

I think they were simply making an example out of her. I do believe her parents should have been present, but it never should have happened in the first place. Parents in general need to be more aware of what their children do while on the net.

Maybe they could have administered a good spanking.

Then everyone on the intardweb will be making threats.  Even me.

[Llava]

Point is, you can't go around saying you want to kill the president.  Sure, it'd be nice to be psychic and know which threat is legit and which isn't, and yeah the SS definitely took it too far by feeling they had to go to the school and talk with her- hell, once they realized she was in a school they should've said "Okay, let's move on."

But anyone can pretend to be a 14 year old girl on myspace.

"omg hi! this is my first time on the internet! i'm 14 and dont have a bf right now but i think i'd really like any guy who would try to kill the president

people i want to meet:  boys who will kill the president!"

[Righ]

Yes, but we expect people to exercise judgment about what is a valid threat and what is rhetoric. After all, you just said "i'd really like any guy who would try to kill the president" and now I have too. If it's simply a matter of parsing teh intarweb and sending the goons based on a fucking pattern match, our visits should arrive forthwith.

[WindupAtheist]

This story repeats maybe once every one or two years.  Some dumbfuck kid babbles publicly about how they wish the President was dead, or want to kill the President, or whatever.  The Secret Service gets wind of this, knows it's horseshit, but they sigh and eventually get around to sending some agents out to administer a ten-minute talking-to.  Then a bunch of asshats who hate whatever President is in power at the time stamp their feet and make assinine allusions to Nazi Germany, as if this is something new.

[Righ]

You're so worldly wise.

[WindupAtheist]

I think last time it was some kid drawing pictures of the President being shot in the head, or hung from a noose or something, in class at school.  The teacher pointed it out to the principal, and somehow the Secret Service ended up becoming aware of it.  As usual, they sent a couple of guys down to the school to make sure this was just some dumbass kid, and spent a few minutes giving him the "Timmy, don't threaten the President" speech.  Then they sent him back to class and went on their way.

A bunch of hippies squawked, but no laws were broken and nobody really gave a shit.  And as of now, nobody even remembers it ever happened.  The same way no one will remember this story two years from now, when some retard kid gets a talking-to from a couple of agents over his "I wish President Hillary was dead" website.

[Daeven]

Legitimate being the key word here. Anybody trying to tell me a 14 year old girl is legitimate enough a threat to be dragged out of a class room is clearly deluded.

Um. At 14 I had a hunting license (and appropiate firearms) and the ability to build radio guided explosive rockets with a 1000 foot flight range using off the shelf hobbiest components. What kind of lame-assed slacker are you that you think a 14 year old can in no way be a threat?

As to the article, THIS is what pisses me off:

McClatchy Assistant Principal Paul Belluomini said he usually does not notify parents when law enforcement officials come to school to interview students.

"Parents usually interfere with an investigation, so we usually don't notify them until it's done," he said.

Yet another argument against public schooling. :/

[Merusk]

A bunch of hippies squawked, but no laws were broken and nobody really gave a shit.  And as of now, nobody even remembers it ever happened.  The same way no one will remember this story two years from now, when some retard kid gets a talking-to from a couple of agents over his "I wish President Hillary was dead" website.

Or 6 years ago.. from the story mentioning TWO teens I linked to.

Shock.

Awe.

[Tebonas]

Um. At 14 I had a hunting license (and appropiate firearms) and the ability to build radio guided explosive rockets with a 1000 foot flight range using off the shelf hobbiest components. What kind of lame-assed slacker are you that you think a 14 year old can in no way be a threat?

You have hunting licenses at 14? I'm without words here. As a country you deserve every gun related crime that happens.

[Ironwood]

"Parents usually interfere with an investigation, so we usually don't notify them until it's done," he said

Ok, I wanted out of this thread, but For Fucks Sake :

My ire at this is not to do with the President, or the Child, or the School, or the Secret Service really.  It stems from the fact that IN MY COUNTRY what the SS did was blatantly illegal.  You just DO NOT interview/speak/address a minor without Parental or Guardian consent.  Especially when said parent or guardians have already stated that THEY DO NOT WANT HER SCHOOLING INTERRUPTED FOR SOMETHING SO FUCKING TRIVIAL.  So, you can ignore me, because I'm basing my views on my own little ditchy backwater.

Further, this quote gets me even more annoyed because, over here, this stupid numbnuts would BE FIRED for her actions and BEATEN WITH A STICK for that comment.  My mother (Head Teacher) would quite literally thrash anyone under her who thought of such stupidity.  Are parents overprotective, shrill, drama queening whores when 'Little Timmy' is in trouble ?  Sure they are.  Should they still be told ?  Without doubt.

What the fuck.