Echoes of Faydwer

[shiznitz]

Reviews are popping up on gaming sites. Too lazy to link them since there are so few of us actually playing EQ2, but they are largely orgasmic in tone.

- armor sets a la WoW
- Unrest and Mistmoore as 70+ zones
- Crushbone has Dvinn somewhere deep inside and the castle itself is immense
- Elves, dwarves and gnomes have starting cities (as well as the new fae race, of course)

Lots here for EQ1 nostaligists and EQ2 fans.

Launches November 14.

[Surlyboi]

I'm really surprised that I'm actually looking forward to this.

As for the Dorf and gnome starting cities, I don't think they'll get them back. I think Kaladim and Steamfront are gonna be in the same vein as Rivervale. i.e., pretty to visit, full of adventure hooks, but not exactly noob safe. The gnome home city has been taken over by clockworks and the dorfs lost thiers to evil stunties or something like that.

Armor sets may be cool, I'll wait 'til I see 'em.
Cloaks? yes please.
Less swashies with pimp hats? hopefully.

[jpark]

Any screenshots of the armor sets?

I am just curious as to whether they can fuck up that concept too.

[Surlyboi]

Fuck up the concept? SOE pretty much invented it with the coordinated sets from EQ1

Oh wait, you probably think WoW was the first game to have armor sets in it, don't you?

Nevermind.

[shiznitz]

While not the reason I am interested in EoF, the sub-class AAs that are leaking out are super-meh.

For those that don't know, KoS introduced Advanced Abilities in EQ2. Each class archetype (not the four basic ones but the next tier with two sub-classes each) has five trees. Once can earn up to 50 points to spend in these. Mastering an entire line costs 24 points. They are also re-speccable for a cash cost that increases with each subsequent re-spec.  It usually takes 4 points in an ability to open up the next one in the tree and the final ability has one rank only costing 8 points.

I am only really familiar with the Berserker/Guardian (i.e. Warrior line) which includes abilities like:

1) +chance to crit when wielding an axe
2) extra AEs attack when wielding a spear
3) +chance to double attack when using a buckler

EoF brings 5 more trees for each sub-class, meaning Berserker and Guardian will have separate lists. Once again 50 points will be the maximum allocation. Every AA earned can be allocated to either pool but once there, stays there.

Bottom line, the new abilities are really underwhelming with only a few that look even moderately worthwhile, not just for my class but for all classes. This is not really surprising since the devs are really just tacking them on since there is no level cap increase and people need something to advance.

For me, EoF is all about seeing Faydwer v2.0 and cloaks.

I am not in the EoF beta.

[Surlyboi]

FWIW, I think even the original AAs are pretty meh, so EoF continuing in that vein doesn't surpise or bother me much.

[Nebu]

This all sounds good with the exception of the armor sets.  It almost guarantees that people will all look alike at the higher levels. 

More character customization PLZ!

[shiznitz]

There are armor sets way before the max level. I don't know if there are sets for every tier (10 levels) but there are at least 3 sets a single character can progress through from 1-70, maybe more.

[Nebu]

There are armor sets way before the max level. I don't know if there are sets for every tier (10 levels) but there are at least 3 sets a single character can progress through from 1-70, maybe more.

I think you know what I was getting at.  If these armor sets represent the best armor at ANY level, then most people will be wearing them (i.e. and all look alike with the minor exception of starting race).  Can't they give us good armor with a bunch of different looks/styles?  If I'm going to be in a "world" I'd like to look different than every other ratonga brigand my level. 

[jpark]

Fuck up the concept? SOE pretty much invented it with the coordinated sets from EQ1

Oh wait, you probably think WoW was the first game to have armor sets in it, don't you?

Nevermind.

Take a deep breath and look at the forum area.  You my friend are in the land of EQ2.

Now proceed to make the argument that the development team on EQ2 has anyting in common in EQ.

EQ2 unfortunately cannot lay claim to anything in EQ - since anything worth copying they missed out - did too late - or did a poor job of.  We are not even talking about the same people/dev teams on EQ vs. EQ2 - they are completely different.

EQ did a lot - no question - but you assign that legacy to EQ2?  "Nevermind".

So herein lies the bet:  EQ2 dev team will fuck up armor sets. 

According to you - since the success of EQ in these efforts in somehow transferrable to EQ2 you would have to predict otherwise.

If EQ2 pulled this off I would have more interest in the game.  But I digress - you feel that the EQ and EQ2 share legacy on these success - and that similar conclusions can be drawn about EQ2.

Let's see what happens  :-D

PS - this is an EQ2 board - please leave WoW out of it   

[Surlyboi]

EQ2 has a great deal in common with EQ now. In the two years now since launch, the EQ2 team has made a great deal of progress toward making me want to play it as much as I played EQ. So yes, while we're on the EQ2 board, EQ1 is still relevant. And it still doesn't negate the fact that the shot you took at the team that has done this work was faily unwarranted in light of that improvement.

And no, I never suggested that the success of EQ would carry over to EQ2. Im pretty sure SOE will not see those days again. That said, I still don't take the dim view of the game that you do.

And I'll keep WoW out of it when you do. Please don't let me go back to some of your earlier rants in this, as you put it "Land of EQ2" where you railed about how EQ2 failed in comparison to WoW.

I will agree though that we should see what happens.

[jpark]

I will agree though that we should see what happens.

Don't get me wrong though - EQ2 is a game I would like to see succeed.  I actually still pay for sub for it.  I log on once in awhile... and log off.

You're absolutely right EQ2 has made a lot of progress.  But it is been putting things back in the game - that were left out from EQ.  More importantly the low laying fruit changes are done.  Any further changes in this game - is going to take a big investment which the current sub/revenue base may not be able to support.

I realize everyone has their own taste.  EQ2 team was full of good ideas - horrific at execution.  No need to rehash it all on my end.

But the team that  made EQ great - is not the one working on EQ2.

On a more upbeat note - I am serious - if they do a good job with armor sets - it would make a big difference for a player like me (driven by asthetics).

[hal]

I have to add. It would be huge. It's not a bad game but the I'm all upholstered look gets old real quick.

[Surlyboi]

I agree, the, "look ma, I'm using a mattress for armor" look of a lot of the cloth stuff has got to go. But as you get to the higher end, some of the armor starts to look pretty damn cool. I'm a big sucker for the monk gis and the mid-level chain stuff that my ranger's sporting.

Could it all use a BIG splash of variety? Hell yes. And I'm hoping for a lot of that, but if it doesn't come, it won't stop me from playing.

[Falconeer]

I thought armour sets were first born in Diablo...

[Sky]

I remember armor sets in most rpgs. There was the magic avatar armor in Ultima 7.

[Nija]

PS - this is an EQ2 board - please leave WoW out of it   

The only reason EQ2 is still around is because they are taking WOW-refined ideas and putting them to use in their game. EQ2 at launch, with the "classic vision" or whatever you want to call it was awful. Soon as they started copying WOW, things picked up.

[Bandit]

Well, who did WoW copy on it's inception? I would say it borrowed heavily from EQ...

The copying argument doesn't really fly with me.  All MMO's have taken ideas from each other.  It's a natural evolution of the genre.  I don't really see where EQ2 has blatantly copied  WoW (maybe the quest indicators over NPC heads - but WoW did not create that idea). I am not arguing your point, and sure you have some specific examples,  but what else have they "copied" that is exclusive to WoW? They have dumbed-down EQ a bit (travelling times, spell progression, etc.) to make it easier, and in turn making it accessible to a wider audience.

I hate going down the WoW vs EQ road, as it been done many times. Personally, I am a fan of both games.

[pants]

Ignoring the WoW vs EQ2 stuff - as an ex-EQ1 and ex-EQ2er, one of the things that disappointed me most about EQ2 when I tried it earlier this year was the lack of links to EQ1.  I was very disappointed not recognising any of Freeport, the Commonlands or Antonica.  I'm glad to see that Faydwer is more like old EQ1 with a lot of the old bad guys - very encouraging for resubbing and trying it out.

[jpark]

PS - this is an EQ2 board - please leave WoW out of it   

The only reason EQ2 is still around is because they are taking WOW-refined ideas and putting them to use in their game. EQ2 at launch, with the "classic vision" or whatever you want to call it was awful. Soon as they started copying WOW, things picked up.

EQ2 has spent time discovering that things they removed from the original EQ game - retained by their competitors - were good ideas and deserve to be back in the game.  Things that EQ2 ignored / dropped from EQ that are now back in the game or should be:

1.  The Beastlord (Not in - yet hunters are popular...)
2.  Choosing your class at level 1.  (put back in)
3.  Pulling (not sure of status now)
4.  Distinct racial starting areas (weak to non existant)
5.  Class coolness > class balance (they seem to be working on it)
6.  Non-linked encounters (back in - now members external to encounter can aid you)
7.  Languages learning (not in that I know - from other players)

EQ2 is still in the process of discovering what elements made EQ a successful game that should be retained today.

[shiznitz]

PS - this is an EQ2 board - please leave WoW out of it   

The only reason EQ2 is still around is because they are taking WOW-refined ideas and putting them to use in their game. EQ2 at launch, with the "classic vision" or whatever you want to call it was awful. Soon as they started copying WOW, things picked up.

EQ2 has spent time discovering that things they removed from the original EQ game - retained by their competitors - were good ideas and deserve to be back in the game.  Things that EQ2 ignored / dropped from EQ that are now back in the game or should be:

1.  The Beastlord (Not in - yet hunters are popular...)
2.  Choosing your class at level 1.  (put back in)
3.  Pulling (not sure of status now)
4.  Distinct racial starting areas (weak to non existant)
5.  Class coolness > class balance (they seem to be working on it)
6.  Non-linked encounters (back in - now members external to encounter can aid you)
7.  Languages learning (not in that I know - from other players)

EQ2 is still in the process of discovering what elements made EQ a successful game that should be retained today.

1) They do have the Kerra (cat) race so that is halfway there, sort of.
2) Glad they reversed the original design here
3) Some of the newer zones require better pulling skills but the FD pull is still gone
4) Still suck for original EQ2 races, but the Fae will have theirs.
5) Cannot comment since I have only played one class (berserker) which is cool and balanced.
6) Up to the group leader to lock or unlock encounters
7) All the player race languages can be learned by buying a book for 12s. The NPC languages are learned through quests. EQ2 system is better than original.

[jpark]

Thanks for the update on some of those points.  (The beastlord if you recall was a class - and most races could be it in EQ - so the presence of Kerra in EQ2 does not address the absence of a beastlord in EQ2.  Ironic considering the wild popularity of the Hunter which is based on the Beastlord).

However, on # 7 I disagree.  This is a classic example of why EQ2 has less player community than EQ.

In EQ we used to have language events - where players would get together and learn languages from each other.  It was another reason to hang-out that did not involve raiding.  Not the kind of thing for everyone - but back in the day popular with my guild.  I even remember standing at a dock or some such - and receiving requests by a bystander to be taught a language.

Now EQ2 comes along and says all you have to do is buy a book to learn the language.  Yea... that's engaging.

Coupled with the original locked encounter decision and the absence of pvp - EQ2 at release had very little community.  That's improving - but this language decision in particular - still illustrates a failure to recognize what made EQ special in the first place.

EQ2 is still discovering EQ.

[Nija]

Well, I played EQ up until phase 3 beta and didn't ever touch it during release, so I'm not sure of this point.

But.... Birds that fly you around zones?

it's hard for me to quantify where exactly EQ2 has been trying to become more like WOW, because it's just another way of saying "they're trying to make the game more fun. You know, like WOW"

If I knew all the specifics I'd sell it.

EQ may or may  not have had many of the features, but I can bet that all of them were implemented better in WOW.

[Bandit]

Well, I played EQ up until phase 3 beta and didn't ever touch it during release, so I'm not sure of this point.

But.... Birds that fly you around zones?

I believe Griffon Towers in EQ2 were available at release.  But they have definitely added more, to make travelling much much easier.

Regardless, I concur with the point you are trying to make.....I just believe it's not to the scope that you think.

Back to Echoes of Faydwer, EQ2Daily.com has a bunch of new screen shots of EoF.  Kind of makes me want to re-sub soon to check it out.

http://www.eq2daily.com/blog/rot%e2%80%99s-thoughts-echoes-of-faydwer-expansion-beta-part-2

[Sky]

Most of the western half of the zone is inhabited by fae drakes, most of which are heroic, so bring a group to this area

No, really. Fuck EQ2.

Also, when taking screenshots to show something off....notch the graphics up above 'ass'.

[Surlyboi]

The NDA was officially canned yesterday. As such, I'll post a few pics with the graphics settings above "ass" at the first convenient opportunity.

[Falconeer]

Griffon towers were in since a looong time ago in EQ2 beta.
I guess there's no way to determine who copied who.

Still, there's no doubt that *since* release EQ2 has tried its best to copy wow simpliest features, but griffons aren't one of those.

[Surlyboi]

Ok, first impressions now that the NDA is lifted...

Pretty damn cool.

Are there issues with some of the implementations? Of course there are. The slowness of the boats, the fact that the boat itself is fairly lackluster, (Nothing sweepingly grand like the first time you saw the boat to Kunark back in the day), Butcherblock and Gfay have changed immensely. This though, is all for the good. Greater Faydark really seems like it should have in EQ1. The effect of the trees closing in over you is that much more overwhelming with the EQ2 engine. Some of the WoW heads will say it looks too much like the night elf starting city and SoE is obviously trying to copy Blizzard yet again. I'm gonna have to disagree there and say that while it is vastly more engrossing than its EQ1 analog, this GFay is still very true to its sibling.

Butcherblock is still a dangerous trek for the uninitiated or the just plain unlucky. New Tunaria (Formerly the high elf starting city) doesn't take well to those that don't worship the tree-huggin' goddess. (I got a lot of glares from the local high elves who all probably would have jumped my half elf ass if I wasn't 10-15 levels above them.) Is it pretty? Hell yes, but still, having to regulate on the high elves didn't feel right, so I only killed a couple dozen.

Crushbone is indeed immense. And at the center of it is D'Vinn. A descendant of the original guy who's ass must've been kicked a million times over by people trying to get that dragoon dirk. Didn't get to see D'Vinn or crush on my swings through there, perhaps I'll try again and really make a concerted effort to find them.

Capes are nice, some of the newer armor is passable, but still a little meh so far. (Though some of the monk gear still ranks up there as my favorite armor in any game ever) The Dorfs and puntables...err, gnomes still can't start in their ancestral homes. Both Kaladim and Ak'anon are most definitely dungeons now.

The Fae? Cool haircuts and wings is the best I can say about them so far. Their realtively small size is a bit disorienting if you're like me and like to do the third person view thing. I've got an artificially inflated 70 Fae monk that I'm putting through the paces. Their racial traits are different enough from the other races I've played to make them slightly interesting. Again, we'll have to see where it goes in the next couple of weeks before live.

Overall, I like it. The engine runs smoother than it did before. And not just because I'm running it on a better machine than I was before, but also because I think they've done a little tinkering to make the game less of a handfull on more systems than it was before. The quest lines are good so far and the gods seem to be making a bit of a comeback in this new age on Norrath. I'm actually intrigued to find out what's going to happen next again in one of these games.

To answer Sky's question before he asks it, no, it's not completely solo-friendly, there's plenty of places you'll need a group. But there's still plenty of opportunities to strike out on your own a bit if you're resourceful.

[Trouble]

zomg Darnassus

[Surlyboi]

Fuck Darnassus in the goat ass.

[hal]

Theres no need to hold back your feelings here. Tell us how you really feel.

[jpark]

I guess EQ2 decided to break the bank and hire an artist.  Finally.

Not bad - thanks for the screenshots.

[Kitsune]

My biggest beef with EQ2 was that it was fucking boring.  Not just boring, mind you, but fucking boring, which is a completely separate animal.  The classes were just atrocious compared to EQ's classes; for example, EQ magicians running around with glowy elementals that were useful allies, EQ2 conjurers having little shitty beetles that didn't do crap.  Only having two cities was bad enough, Freeport being a nasty shade of mud-color for most of the decor wasn't any help.  The graphics were awful, that 'our engine is so 1337 that nobody can run it and everyone has to play on settings where it looks like shit' philosophy didn't do them any favors.  It all just came together in a way that said... ugh.

That being said, bringing back the unique cities for the different races is a very good step.  They contributed greatly to the original EQ's feel, I loved to travel and come across an unfamiliar city and go poking around it.

Now all they need to do is make the classes flashier and toss some of the crappy graphical elements and they'll be a very good way on the way to surpassing original EQ.

For now, though, if someone just did a ground-up DirectX 10 overhaul of EQ and tweaked some of the combat mechanics to be less 'autoattack, kick, bash, kick, bash', I'd consider it a vastly superior game to EQ2.

[Surlyboi]

Well, don't get too excited about those explorable starter cities, like I said above, it's only Kelethin. Kaladim, Ak'Anon (now Klak'Anon) and Felwithe (now New Tunaria) are certainly not starter cities anymore. And most definitely not friendly enough for a casual stroll unless you're in the high 60s.

More screenies for ya...



These are three of the armor sets for the different types (leather, plate, chain)

[jpark]

Thanks for those screens.

Hmm still - I look at the depicted armor sets and I just don't see much to get excited about - I don't have any "shiny" reaction to them (although the plate one is not bad).