I would cry, but there are no tears.

[Anonymous]

The politics of ketchup.

What a wacky wacky world we live in.

[Sky]

My ketchup reads "For best results, eat."

[WayAbvPar]

I wonder if W Ketchup is classified as a vegetable? Christ knows its namesake should be.

[Paelos]

With an idea this sound, it'll sell as well as Hindu Steak Sauce!

BUY NOW!

[El Gallo]

The only ketchup worthy of freedom fries.

[geldonyetich]

That's really pretty infantile.   The candidate you're running against has a wife who does not even own sufficient stock to be controlling Heinz, so you make your own brand of non-Heinz catsup in the name of "Freedom"?    More like in the name of head-up-your-ass fascism.   Apparently the Republican claims of supporting big business only extends to the ones paying them kickbacks.

It's a sad day that America has to deal with these backwards thinking dinosaurs being in office.

[TripleDES]

A luck noone's judging a society's state of mind by the type and magnitude of stunts like that one.

[Nebu]

Pretty fitting... especially if you consider the days when Reagan claimed that ketchup was a vegetable in school lunches.

[SirBruce]

That's another liberal myth.  Reagan never attempted to claim such a thing.

What happened was, only a few months into Regan's administration, the CONGRESS cut about $1 billion from the school lunch program.  In order for all the children to still be fed, they required the relevant agency (which was the Department of Agriculture, of all things) to come up with nutrional guidelines for the new meals.  Unfortunately, they only gave them 90 days in which to do so.

Beuracracies don't perform very well in the first place.  Asking them to do something within 90 days is virtually impossible.  So the people scrambled to come up with new guidelines that would still feed children acceptable and yet cost $1 billion less than previously.  At lot of ideas were bandied about in the Department, and they had very little time to ponder them.

One of the ideas that came up... no one ever admitted to being the source... was that ketchup be classified as a vegetable, instead of a condiment.  The motivation was not to starve children, but rather to save money.  Here's the logic: At the time, the lunches were required to have something like 5 portions, 2 of which were fruit or vegetable.  Now, everyone knows that children don't like to eat their vegetables, especially when the selection of the day is lima beans or peas or some other unpopular choice.  The school paid for these servings, which the children rarely ate; most of it wound up in the trash bin, wasted.  By letting the schools count ketchup as one of the vegetable servings -- something which kids were eating anyway -- they would save millions of dollars in waste, and have NO impact on the nutrition children were ACTUALLY getting from the program.

It was a good idea in theory.  But remember, they had only 90 days to come up with the changes.  Therefore there was no time for high-level review by anyone high up in the White House.  When the shit fit the fan in the press, the Secretary tried to defend the new guidelines his staff had come up with, but by then it was too late; the damage to public perception was done.

In an interesting postscript, when the Clinton administration classified salsa as a vegetable instead of a condiment, the press didn't say a word.

Bruce

[daveNYC]

In an interesting postscript, when the Clinton administration classified salsa as a vegetable instead of a condiment, the press didn't say a word.

They did, it just got drowned out by the scandal of the week.

W Ketchup is another low for the American political process.  I'm sure another new low will present itself next week.

[Riggswolfe]

I love my country. However, stuff like this embarasses the hell out of me. Freedom Fries and W ketchup. Good god people. This isn't kindergarten.

Sadly enough in these days I actually felt the need to make sure I told you all I loved my country. I figured I risked being called unpatriotic if I criticized this stupid idea.

[NiX]

Canada is considered a joke. Something tells me some americans are trying to steal our title.

[Paelos]

To me this just reflects the ever polarizing environment surrounding national politics. It disturbs me that now more than ever being a moderate is considered wrong, or that you aren't really moderate because you lean one way or the other.

Trying to connect politics with everything from the clothes we wear to the things we eat is not a good idea.

[Sky]

To me this just reflects the ever polarizing environment surrounding national politics. It disturbs me that now more than ever being a moderate is considered wrong, or that you aren't really moderate because you lean one way or the other.

Anyone who tells me they are 'left' or 'right', or 'conservative' or 'liberal', well, they just shut themselves off. If you are so simple-minded that you can be described by a label, then I don't have time for you.

I'm liberal on some things, conservative on others, like anyone who thinks about issues at all. If people spent less time debating where they sit on the political spectrum (which is ultimately useless), and more time rebuilding our nation's infrastructure and education systems...well, why bother with pipe dreams, right?

I guess I'll say I'm in the middle, because that's the finger I have reserved for politicians.

[Nebu]

In an interesting postscript, when the Clinton administration classified salsa as a vegetable instead of a condiment, the press didn't say a word.Bruce

If we're going to start a "liberal bias in the media" rant, we may as well start a new thread. I'll be happy to provide you with several examples where the media hammered the left while leaving the right alone (the Bush/Gore race was full of said examples).

I, however, will apologize for my poorly researched mistake on the Reagan/ketchup connection. For background, it came from years of being a public school student under the Reagan administration calling Ketchup "Ronnie-veg".

[Dark Vengeance]

That's really pretty infantile.   The candidate you're running against has a wife who does not even own sufficient stock to be controlling Heinz, so you make your own brand of non-Heinz catsup in the name of "Freedom"?

Actually, it's more like a few opportunists trying to make a quick buck. They capitalize on the polarizing effect of politics, and offer some folks a way to make a symbolic gesture that they don't approve of Kerry, and will go out of their way to avoid supporting him, or his wife's family. If enough folks vote with their wallet, so to speak, it makes them some nice bank.

Even though Teresa Heinz-Kerry owns a pittance of company stock, it's still her family name on the bottle. It's just a symbolic gesture.

But I'm with you here....it's pretty juvenille, but I put it on a par with the pet rock, or the boom in jelly bean sales during the Reagan era. It's just a novelty item.

More like in the name of head-up-your-ass fascism.   Apparently the Republican claims of supporting big business only extends to the ones paying them kickbacks.

See, now here's where you lost me. How is it fascist for private entrepreneurs to introduce a new brand of ketchup to compete with Heinz? Granted, it's a novelty brand that will be gone by next year.....but I don't see the fascism.

The GOP does tend to support business and the development of large companies, including Heinz. However, what individual consumers do is their own choice.

It's a sad day that America has to deal with these backwards thinking dinosaurs being in office.

Now here, you're just devolving into your standard form, geldon.....this ketchup is neither affiliated, backed, or endorsed by Bush or the GOP.
RTFA, man....it's simply a few guys trying to cash in with a novelty product. It's not some concerted effort to destroy Heinz ketchup.

Way to take a "hey yeah, that's sort of funny in a stupid kind of way" story and deflect it with the tinfoil hat straight into conspiracy-land though.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

[Nebu]

Billy Beer for teh win!

As you can see, both sides are guilty at one point or another.

[SirBruce]

In an interesting postscript, when the Clinton administration classified salsa as a vegetable instead of a condiment, the press didn't say a word.Bruce

If we're going to start a "liberal bias in the media" rant, we may as well start a new thread. I'll be happy to provide you with several examples where the media hammered the left while leaving the right alone (the Bush/Gore race was full of said examples).

But your examples, and those of Al Franken, are irrelevant.  When Bernard Goldberg, a respected liberal journalist within his own field, writes a book revealing the bias, and the Pew Center poll of journalists documents in black and white the media's own SELF-IDENTIFIED liberal leanings, the existance of a liberal bias is unquestionable.  The real discussion is how much of a bias it is, to what areas does it apply and to what areas does it not, what other biases the media has that sometimes conflict or override liberal bias, and how the bias is segmented among various media outlets.

I, however, will apologize for my poorly researched mistake on the Reagan/ketchup connection. For background, it came from years of being a public school student under the Reagan administration calling Ketchup "Ronnie-veg".

I thank you for the apology... it was most unexpected and I hadn't even asked for it. :)  But honestly, I don't blame you for believing it... there is a kernel of truth in it, and it was a long time ago, and I don't see it as relevant to today's issues.  I'm far more bothered that you don't think there's a liberal media bias than I am that you believe Reagan or Republicans in general wanted to classify ketchup as a vegetable, because they kinda did, but with some reason.

Bruce

[SirBruce]

Billy Beer for teh win!

As you can see, both sides are guilty at one point or another.

It's hard to believe there was a national shock when Carter admitted he had "lusted in his heart", and only 20 years later most of America went "meh" when Clinton was getting blowjobs from an intern in the Oval Office.

Bruce

[Rodent]

So, you guys are sticking with "freedom fries" eh?

[daveNYC]

But your examples, and those of Al Franken, are irrelevant.  When Bernard Goldberg, a respected liberal journalist within his own field, writes a book revealing the bias, and the Pew Center poll of journalists documents in black and white the media's own SELF-IDENTIFIED liberal leanings, the existance of a liberal bias is unquestionable.  The real discussion is how much of a bias it is, to what areas does it apply and to what areas does it not, what other biases the media has that sometimes conflict or override liberal bias, and how the bias is segmented among various media outlets.

But what pisses the hell out of me is how everyone screams about the liberal bias as though a) the media was one big monolithic block, and b) they ignore the conservative bias that exists in some media outlets.

It's like the Croats screaming about Serbian aggression.

[Paelos]

Recently the media was moderate towards left leaning, some more left than others. Very little was established in the way of right leaning, although there was some, but it was not the majority. Conservative bias in the media doesn't really help the news media since they are not interested in reporting on the status quo.

Now with the release of more conservative media, the left goes farther, then the right goes next. Its the arms race of the media to see who can polarize the fastest. I consider myself right leaning, and my rabid Republican friend insulted me recently for getting my news from CNN and not FoxNews. I summarily told him to go fuck himself, but it showed me that even with media people are starting to try and draw party lines. It's GODDAMN SILLY! Report on the news without the fucking spin, I get enough of that from government as it is.

[El Gallo]

The major media is liberal on social issues on conservative on economic ones, compared to Joe Sixpack.  It's pretty obvious when you think about it.  The mainstream media is dominated by highly educated, wealthy people who live on the east coast or California.

Ask 100 highly educated guys making $400k/yr in Boston if they agree with the following statements:

1. God hates fags and they are going to hell.
2. NAFTA was a good thing for the economy.

then ask the same two questions to 100 Americans selected at random.  Tada.

[Dark Vengeance]

Its the arms race of the media to see who can polarize the fastest.

I couldn't agree more. I personally love it when CNN runs stories publicizing a book about FoxNews and their conservative bias, which the book blames solely on Rupert Murdoch.

I mean cmon, CNN running a story that suggests their biggest competitor is an unreliable biased news source, and thus inferior?? Who'd have thunk it?

I'm just waiting for the stories that claim CNN cheated on it's wife, and FoxNews smoked pot in college.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

[Anonymous]

I just check google news.  Why get your news from one media outlet?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the claim that there are people who get their news from the daily show.  I suppose it's no worse than getting your news from Limbaugh.

[gimpyone]

Since documentaries are a big thing now:

http://www.outfoxed.org/

"Outfoxed" examines how media empires, led by Rupert Murdoch's Fox News, have been running a "race to the bottom" in television news. This film provides an in-depth look at Fox News and the dangers of ever-enlarging corporations taking control of the public's right to know.

The film explores Murdoch's burgeoning kingdom and the impact on society when a broad swath of media is controlled by one person.

Media experts, including Walter Cronkite, Jeff Cohen (FAIR) Bob McChesney (Free Press), Chellie Pingree (Common Cause), Jeff Chester (Center for Digital Democracy) and David Brock (Media Matters) provide context and guidance for the story of Fox News and its effect on society.

This documentary also reveals the secrets of Former Fox news producers, reporters, bookers and writers who expose what it's like to work for Fox News.  These former Fox employees talk about how they were forced to push a "right-wing" point of view or risk their jobs. Some have even chosen to remain anonymous in order to protect their current livelihoods. As one employee said "There's no sense of integrity as far as having a line that can't be crossed."

Director/Producer Robert Greenwald has produced and/or directed 53 television movies, miniseries and features. He is the director of Uncovered and the Executive Producer of the UN series - Unprecedented, Uncovered and the soon to be released Unconstitutional.

Not that something sponsored by Moveon.org is unbiased.

[Alkiera]

Since documentaries are a big thing now:

http://www.outfoxed.org/

"Outfoxed" examines how media empires, led by Rupert Murdoch's Fox News, have been running a "race to the bottom" in television news. This film provides an in-depth look at Fox News and the dangers of ever-enlarging corporations taking control of the public's right to know.

The film explores Murdoch's burgeoning kingdom and the impact on society when a broad swath of media is controlled by one person.

Media experts, including Walter Cronkite, Jeff Cohen (FAIR) Bob McChesney (Free Press), Chellie Pingree (Common Cause), Jeff Chester (Center for Digital Democracy) and David Brock (Media Matters) provide context and guidance for the story of Fox News and its effect on society.

This documentary also reveals the secrets of Former Fox news producers, reporters, bookers and writers who expose what it's like to work for Fox News.  These former Fox employees talk about how they were forced to push a "right-wing" point of view or risk their jobs. Some have even chosen to remain anonymous in order to protect their current livelihoods. As one employee said "There's no sense of integrity as far as having a line that can't be crossed."

Director/Producer Robert Greenwald has produced and/or directed 53 television movies, miniseries and features. He is the director of Uncovered and the Executive Producer of the UN series - Unprecedented, Uncovered and the soon to be released Unconstitutional.

Yeah, FOXNews is so much more a "ever-enlarging corporations taking control of the public's right to know" than, say, ABC, CBS, or NBC, who've had a stranglehold on TV news since the invention of the satelite uplink, or possibly longer.

On another note, at least some of the "former Fox employees" interviewed in this thing are not actually employees of FOX, but of FOX affilliates.  One wonders how much of the 'pressure' they felt was from local station managers, and how much was actually from FOX.

There's nothing about Robert Greenwald to indicate he's a Michael Moore wannabe, I'd reserve judgement till I'd actually seen it, if I had any plans to see it.  Really, I don't see how FOX is any worse than ABC, CBS, NBC, or CNN.  At least FOX is up-front about their inherent bias.

Not that something sponsored by Moveon.org is unbiased.

On that, we can most certainly agree.

--
Alkiera

[daveNYC]

At least FOX is up-front about their inherent bias.

Did they change their slogan or something?

[personman]

Given that the major media outlets are controlled by a pretty finite group of powerful wealthy corporations I suggest whatever "left bias" exists among its low-level employees is vastly compensated for by internal controls.

That CNN can be called "liberal" just goes to show how polarized we've become.

[SirBruce]

Given that the major media outlets are controlled by a pretty finite group of powerful wealthy corporations I suggest whatever "left bias" exists among its low-level employees is vastly compensated for by internal controls.

That CNN can be called "liberal" just goes to show how polarized we've become.

No, the fact that you don't think "powerful wealthy corporations" can't be "liberal" in the views their sub-corporations present show how polarized you've become.

Bruce

[Arcadian Del Sol]

That's really pretty infantile.   The candidate you're running against has a wife who does not even own sufficient stock to be controlling Heinz, so you make your own brand of non-Heinz catsup in the name of "Freedom"?    More like in the name of head-up-your-ass fascism.   Apparently the Republican claims of supporting big business only extends to the ones paying them kickbacks.

It's a sad day that America has to deal with these backwards thinking dinosaurs being in office.

I didn't see anywhere in the article that it said this was a product being manufactured and distributed by the Republican Party. Looks to me like some cut-rate ketchup manufacturer found a way to remarket his product to try and sell a few extra crates. I file this story under the heading "mostly harmless" and chuckle as I move on.

I dont know if I'd call it infantile if he ends up selling 25% more product until the election. I'd call that a pretty savvy ketchup salesman.

In a related story, Miller Brewing Company is still trying to be elected President of Beers. Infantile Democrats, I tells ya.

[Rodent]

No, the fact that you don't think "powerful wealthy corporations" can't be "liberal" in the views their sub-corporations present show how polarized you've become.

Bruce

I'm sure they can be but CNN sure isn't one of them.

[HaemishM]

The politics of ketchup.

What a wacky wacky world we live in.

I see political retardery is alive and well in the world of condiments.