Useless Conversation

[WayAbvPar]

For most Mormons, they think any amount of alcohol makes you into a slobbering idiot.

I would be more inclined to blame Mormonism for that 

[Polysorbate80]

Even though it's a pain in the ass for all involved, the smart thing to do (or so I'm told) is to request a blood test since those don't have the same tendency toward false positives.

Unless you know you're under the limit, alll that will do is give you a definite positive unless you're so close to the limit that the extra time it takes to draw the blood will give you time to drop under it.

[Samwise]

Even though it's a pain in the ass for all involved, the smart thing to do (or so I'm told) is to request a blood test since those don't have the same tendency toward false positives.

Unless you know you're under the limit, alll that will do is give you a definite positive unless you're so close to the limit that the extra time it takes to draw the blood will give you time to drop under it.

If I'm actually over the limit, I'll take my DUI conviction with a smile.  I just hate the idea of having that decided by a gadget that's known to give ludicrously bad readings.

[ghost]

With all of the no-refusal checkpoints that I've been seeing lately that may just be what you get, Samwise.   

[Samwise]

With all of the no-refusal checkpoints that I've been seeing lately that may just be what you get, Samwise.   

A "no-refusal" checkpoint (at least as I've ever seen the term used) doesn't mean you can't refuse a breathalyzer; it just means that they're prepared to administer a blood test right there if you insist on one.  That's actually a nice thing IMO since otherwise if you want a blood test you have to be taken into custody and go down to the station.

[ghost]

Right.  They have the judge there to force you to do it.  Anyway, I thought you said you'd rather take a blood test.  So there you go.  It's decided for you.

I guess we could clear this all up by just not drinking and driving. 

[Samwise]

Have you seen the assholes that are on the road late at night?  Hell if I'm going to deal with that sober.

[ghost]

When I was still in medical school we would often get to drive home at 2 or 3 in the AM.  It is absolutely frightening if you are sober.  One of the neurosurgeons actually got killed by a drunk driver after he finished up a surgery at 3 in the morning on, you guessed it, a fucking drunk idiot.  I don't drive in the dark if I don't have to.

[Sky]

 "Breathalyzers" are up there with polygraph tests.

[Furiously]

My understanding is that if you consent to a breathalyzer you're going to have a hard time disputing its results.  Even though it's a pain in the ass for all involved, the smart thing to do (or so I'm told) is to request a blood test since those don't have the same tendency toward false positives.

I think in Washington at least if your refuse the breathalyzer you automatically lose your license for a year.

[Samwise]

I think in Washington at least if your refuse the breathalyzer you automatically lose your license for a year.

Did some googling and you appear to be correct.  That's pretty fucked up. 

The way it works in California is that if the officer has probable cause and you refuse the breathalyzer, he can take you into custody, at which point you have the choice of a breath, blood, or urine test administered by someone who knows what the fuck they're doing.  If you refuse to take any sort of test, THEN you lose your license for a year.

[Ironwood]

Any driving after drinking is just plain dumb even if you're sure you're under the limit. I honestly don't know anybody who would even consider it anymore.

+1

Also, Mormons probably think 1 drink makes you gibbering because if you didn't drink all your life, 1 drink probably would.

[Merusk]

My understanding is that if you consent to a breathalyzer you're going to have a hard time disputing its results.  Even though it's a pain in the ass for all involved, the smart thing to do (or so I'm told) is to request a blood test since those don't have the same tendency toward false positives.

I think in Washington at least if your refuse the breathalyzer you automatically lose your license for a year.

Ohio had tried to one-up that by immediately impounding your vehicle if you refused the test.  If I remember that one ended pretty quickly because of the amount of time it tied-up the police while waiting on all the tow trucks.

[Cyrrex]

Any driving after drinking is just plain dumb even if you're sure you're under the limit. I honestly don't know anybody who would even consider it anymore.

+1

Also, Mormons probably think 1 drink makes you gibbering because if you didn't drink all your life, 1 drink probably would.

I've met more than one Mormon that felt the same way about Coca Cola...do they still do that? 

[Ironwood]

I have no idea.

[Merusk]

A coworker once explained it as, "No body or mind-altering substances other than medicine."  That's why it included caffeine as well as booze, so yes, no Coke. 

[Lantyssa]

They need to stop doing that whole food then then.

[Minvaren]

Several Mormons I knew used to swig Coke like it was water. 

My understanding is there's a minor debate over this one within the church - those of Merusk's coworker's take, and those with the "not explicitly stated so it's ok" take.

[ghost]

A coworker once explained it as, "No body or mind-altering substances other than medicine."  That's why it included caffeine as well as booze, so yes, no Coke. 

The actual rule is no "hot drinks" such as tea or coffee according to mormon friends.  That has been interpreted to mean no caffeine of any sort by many mormons but the church allows them to decide on their own about cola drinks.

[Ironwood]

Wait, what ?

[RhyssaFireheart]

Wait, what ?

It's religion.   Don't try to make sense of it, because there is no logic.

[Ironwood]

Well, yeah, but having a 'No Hot Drinks' rule just sounds like someone has the facts wrong.

Otherwise, well, that's just fucking retarded.  Basic survival suggests that having hot drinks since the dawn of time is sort of a GOOD thing.

[ghost]

Well you have to remember that these rules come from a known charlatan in Joseph Smith from way back in the mid 1800's.  Mormonism is completely crackpot, on level with Scientology. 

[Paelos]

Well, yeah, but having a 'No Hot Drinks' rule just sounds like someone has the facts wrong.

Otherwise, well, that's just fucking retarded.  Basic survival suggests that having hot drinks since the dawn of time is sort of a GOOD thing.

Hot drinks keep you from becoming God of your own planet.

[Ironwood]

Well you have to remember that these rules come from a known charlatan in Joseph Smith from way back in the mid 1800's.  Mormonism is completely crackpot, on level with Scientology. 

Again, Yeah, but I'd really like to meet the Alaskan chapter.

I understand they've frozen stiff centuries ago.

[ghost]

I don't think they prohibit fire.

[Reg]

Admittedly I got most of my info from watching "Big Love" but I'm certain I remember those jolly polygamists sucking up hot chocolate as a substitute for sinful coffee.

[ghost]

Apparently hot chocolate is legal, but "hot drinks" are not.  The "hot drinks" statement refers exclusively to tea and coffee, but doesn't mention caffeine per se.  I'm not even sure if we knew what caffeine was back in the 1800s, but Joseph Smith was against them so there you go.   

Having many rotations with mormon medical students makes for interesting conversation.

[JWIV]

I hate you all for making me drag out a copy of D&C to get the wording of the "word of wisdom" (which is what all the restrictions come from)


http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/89?lang=eng  

Section 89, verse 9

 9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

*******************************
So yes, being so delightfully vague, this one tends to be debated back and forth a bit.  The general guidance is caffeinated teas (herbal teas or tisane's  tend to be viewed as acceptable) and coffee is what this is in reference to.  However, there is a definitely a percentage that take this to be either caffeine in general or caffeinated drinks (including soda).

 

[Ironwood]

What an utter bunch of fucking wank.

[IainC]

Marxists are another group whose beliefs mean that they are only able to drink herbal teas.

Because proper tea is theft.

[rattran]

That's what makes tea taste so good. Delicious theft. Like eating cute animals such as deer or rabbit.

Also, saw an ancient guy in a uniform handing out the little faux poppies when I grabbed coffee this morning. Made me feel old when I realized it was a WW2 vet as old as the WWI vets who did it when I was a kid. Attempting to hand out, almost no one seemed to want to take them.

[Paelos]

Who are we stealing tea from? Earth?

[IainC]

It wasn't that subtle surely?

[Paelos]

It wasn't that subtle surely?

I had to google it. Property. I see now.