Useless Conversation

[WayAbvPar]

We had Thai delivered Christmas Day. Modern society, for all its ills, is pretty fucking cool sometimes.

[Hawkbit]

We made pizzas. We are so sick of Seattle’s crappy and expensive pizza options that we spent the last year honing our recipe down.  We now make the best pizza in Seattle.

[schild]

We made pizzas. We are so sick of Seattle’s crappy and expensive pizza options that we spent the last year honing our recipe down.  We now make the best pizza in Seattle.

Casually coming in here with "we make better pizza than serious pie"

[Hawkbit]

Serious Pie is very good if you want pizza that has combinations such as arugula, pear, potato and artisanal sausage made from a pig named Henry. I mean - yeah, it's really good. At home we're aiming for a good New York style and we're kinda close to it.

The local chains have really gone downhill in the past five years - Pagliacci and Zeeks are both around $32 for a large pizza. In fact, the one exception is Flying Squirrel in Georgetown. They do really great 'regular' style pizza - so maybe we're second best pizza. :)

[Rendakor]

$32 for a pizza? Is this like, a fancy sit down restaurant? Or are prices just crazy fucked over there?

[Hawkbit]

Crazy fucked. We bought a house for $320k in west Seattle seven years ago that now values at $600k and we get 2-3 calls a year from developers offering cash for our house to tear down and put four townhouses on it. But there’s nowhere to move to now in the area. Bidding wars on houses get unreal.

I wouldn’t even mind paying $32 for a pizza if it was good. But these are not good pizzas.

[Chimpy]

$32 for a pizza? Is this like, a fancy sit down restaurant? Or are prices just crazy fucked over there?

A large pizza from real pizza places (aka Chicago style  ) usually cost $30-40 minimum.

[Trippy]

$32 for a pizza? Is this like, a fancy sit down restaurant? Or are prices just crazy fucked over there?

$32 for an enormous “Large” 17” pizza with plenty of toppings is not that expensive. In comparison an XL pizza from a place like Dominos or Round Table is 16”.

[Rendakor]

A large plain pizza from my local-but-is-now-a-chain pizza joint is $12; feeds a family of four. Even with toppings you'd have to go crazy to get the price above $20.

Also Chimpy, shut your whore mouth.

[Trippy]

A 17" pizza has an area of ~227". A "large" chain-store pizza is typically 14" and has an area of ~154". The 17" is ~48% larger. $20 * 1.48 = ~$30.

[Rendakor]

Their website does not list diameter; I'll have to measure next time I order one.

[Khaldun]

The Kenji-Alt recipe for Detroit Pizza is really great, with the proviso that like a lot of his recipes, you really do have to do most of the very fussy shit he insists on.

We had a great pizza place within 30 minutes of us for the first time in thirty years not long ago, and then it went out of business (pre-covid19). Sigh. All the other pizza around here just absolutely blows.

[Chimpy]

A large plain pizza from my local-but-is-now-a-chain pizza joint is $12; feeds a family of four. Even with toppings you'd have to go crazy to get the price above $20.

Also Chimpy, shut your whore mouth.

The entire pizza also probably weighs about as much as a slice of Chicago style pizza and bakes in five minutes.

Ingredients and heat cost money, son!

[Rendakor]

Chicago pizza completely misunderstands the ideal crust-to-sauce ratio. While NY style is generally the default around here, there are lots of places (including the one I referenced above) that primarily make pizza with a thicker crust that is still quite good.

[Khaldun]

I insanely love the genuinely thin-crust places but it's been interesting that despite the legit-worship of Pepe and Sally's in New Haven that style of pizza has really not spread. I think it takes good ovens, cooks who really know what they're doing, and intelligent use of toppings. It just isn't what a lot of places have. There's a cynical bullshit place near us that does "wood-fired pizza" where it's entirely cosmetic, meaning they have an oven that is totally conventional that can handle pushing a few pieces of wood in there for appearance's sake, they shovel premade crusts in with low-grade toppings and say "oh look a wood-fired artisan pizza". Nope, fuck off, same as the other places--frozen bad dough, plastic containers of Sysco-made ingredients, etc.

[Teleku]

I've always been a fan of thicker pizza (cheese, crust, everything) instead of thin crust.  I'd like to say that I like Chicago Style pizza, but I've only ever had Zachary's in Oakland (which is great) and not actually anything in or around Chicago, heh.

[Sky]

We've eaten so much pizza this year, doing our part to keep our brick oven joint open. Our standard 3-top pie runs around $22, I think. I've never thought to measure a pizza...but it barely fits in a standard large pizza box.

One night they closed early due to snow and called to see if I wanted a pie before they closed  Nice perq of hometown living, along with free pies every now and again (and free beers while waiting).

[Mandella]

I insanely love the genuinely thin-crust places but it's been interesting that despite the legit-worship of Pepe and Sally's in New Haven that style of pizza has really not spread. I think it takes good ovens, cooks who really know what they're doing, and intelligent use of toppings. It just isn't what a lot of places have. There's a cynical bullshit place near us that does "wood-fired pizza" where it's entirely cosmetic, meaning they have an oven that is totally conventional that can handle pushing a few pieces of wood in there for appearance's sake, they shovel premade crusts in with low-grade toppings and say "oh look a wood-fired artisan pizza". Nope, fuck off, same as the other places--frozen bad dough, plastic containers of Sysco-made ingredients, etc.

That is such a pet peeve of mine that I will actively avoid going to places that have one. "It's the wood that makes it good!" No hell it isn't. It's good ingredients and people that know what they are doing and okay maybe a good hot stone.

But it is not the wood, goddammit.

[Khaldun]

There's a joint near us that has a "wood-fired oven" where it's got completely ordinary temperature controls, etc. and put a log or two in the back occasionally just to make it look nice--you can see that the smoke is being sucked upwards rapidly and that the wood itself is doing next to no convection heating, all the work is being done in the front. I asked the guy once when I had to meet someone there who they thought they were fooling and he said, "Everybody but you and me, I think".

[MahrinSkel]

Chicago style is a perfectly fine circular casserole, but it's not really pizza. You don't need magical ingredients to make a decent pizza, just an oven that can get about 100-150 degrees hotter than your standard electric and either a good stone or aluminum screens.

--Dave

[Reg]

We used to have a local place nearby back in 70s. By 1985 they had to shut down because the ingredients they used got too expensive and nobody was willing to spend 30 dollars for a pizza. I'd have paid and just had one every couple of weeks but I guess most people would rather eat shit on a shingle for 10 dollars.

[HaemishM]

We used to have a local place nearby back in 70s. By 1985 they had to shut down because the ingredients they used got too expensive and nobody was willing to spend 30 dollars for a pizza. I'd have paid and just had one every couple of weeks but I guess most people would rather eat shit on a shingle for 10 dollars.

I mean, Papa John's Pizza still exists, despite having this exact recipe. 

[Cyrrex]

Chicago style is a perfectly fine circular casserole, but it's not really pizza. You don't need magical ingredients to make a decent pizza, just an oven that can get about 100-150 degrees hotter than your standard electric and either a good stone or aluminum screens.

--Dave

Chicago "pizza" is tasty, but it is not really pizza.

While we are at it, NY style pizza is nothing special (if you can fold your pizza, that is some thin ass bullshit), and the only reason either of these things gets debated as much as they do is because so many people live in and/or visit those two places. 

[Velorath]

It's pizza. It's got all the ingredients of pizza. If anything it's like multiple pizzas. Some of you get it. Some of ya'll have some narrow views of what pizza is.

[Samwise]

If you're going to get snooty about pizza that's too thick or too thin, or that has toppings you don't like, you should just go full monocle and say that if it's not a traditional Pizza Margherita made in Naples with heirloom Italian wheat by a guy with a thick mustache it doesn't count.  Everything else is a regional bastardization.

[Cyrrex]

I mean, we can just throw all the ingredients into a big pot and let it stew and still call it a pizza I guess.  But as a basis for comparing one to the other, that makes it difficult.  I also wouldn’t compare a calzione to a pizza, and it is literally just a pizza turned inside out and made into a pocket.

I absolutely do like Chicago style pizza.  But it doesn’t fill the same space for me, nor would it satisfy the same craving I might have for a more traditional style pizza.

[Velorath]

So Pizza Hut can put Hot Dogs in the crust, or some restaurants can throw on toppings like various kinds of fruits and that's fair game, but comparing Chicago style pizza to other pizza is a bridge too far because it will open the doors to people who might throw cheese, sauce, and pizza dough into a pot and try to stew it? Ok, got it.

[Chimpy]

Chicago style pizza is assembled the same as any other pizza with literally 1 exception: the sauce is on top because if you put toppings/cheese on top they will burn with the long baking time.

It is a layer of crust, with a layer of toppings, a layer of cheese, and then sauce.

[Samwise]

It is a layer of crust, with a layer of toppings, a layer of cheese, and then sauce.

Pretty much this.  If it's got a breadlike crust on the bottom, cheese and sauce on top of that, and it all gets baked together, then I'm hard pressed to give a definition of pizza that excludes it.

[Samwise]

I mean, I get annoyed about the "everything is a sandwich" bullshit, but I can also provide a definition of a sandwich that excludes tacos and hot dogs, so it's not just baseless harumphing.

[Pennilenko]

The whole pizza argument kills me. Eat what you like with what ever toppings you like. I like authentic Chicago style, New York style, and Traditional Italian style.

However, I cannot tolerate any pizza joint that uses shitty ingredients and hires cooks with zero experience. Similarly, I cannot abide fake, show only, ovens. I do not want gimmicky pizza, I want pizza cooked by people who love pizza and refuse to cut corners. I will also pay good money for good pizza without complaints. Sadly, I live in Southwest Florida; there is no good pizza here. Every local pizza place is literally a choice of who has failed me the least.

[Trippy]

It is a layer of crust, with a layer of toppings, a layer of cheese, and then sauce.

Pretty much this.  If it's got a breadlike crust on the bottom, cheese and sauce on top of that, and it all gets baked together, then I'm hard pressed to give a definition of pizza that excludes it.

Careful now — you are wading into “what is a sandwich”-type territory. Your definition excludes the classic Neapolitan marinara pizza (no cheese).

[Samwise]

It is a layer of crust, with a layer of toppings, a layer of cheese, and then sauce.

Pretty much this.  If it's got a breadlike crust on the bottom, cheese and sauce on top of that, and it all gets baked together, then I'm hard pressed to give a definition of pizza that excludes it.

Careful now — you are wading into “what is a sandwich”-type territory. Your definition excludes the classic Neapolitan marinara pizza (no cheese).

I debated even mentioning cheese because I'm pretty sure I've had cheeseless pizzas that were just fine.  I prefer cheese (on everything, really), but it's certainly not a hill I'm going to die on.

[Sky]

If you're going to get snooty about pizza that's too thick or too thin, or that has toppings you don't like, you should just go full monocle and say that if it's not a traditional Pizza Margherita made in Naples with heirloom Italian wheat by a guy with a thick mustache it doesn't count.  Everything else is a regional bastardization.

No san marzano tomatoes? Jesus fucking christ this will not stand.

[Trippy]

It is a layer of crust, with a layer of toppings, a layer of cheese, and then sauce.

Pretty much this.  If it's got a breadlike crust on the bottom, cheese and sauce on top of that, and it all gets baked together, then I'm hard pressed to give a definition of pizza that excludes it.

Careful now — you are wading into “what is a sandwich”-type territory. Your definition excludes the classic Neapolitan marinara pizza (no cheese).

I debated even mentioning cheese because I'm pretty sure I've had cheeseless pizzas that were just fine.  I prefer cheese (on everything, really), but it's certainly not a hill I'm going to die on.

And there are sauceless pizzas -- aka Pizza Bianca.