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Samwise
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Reply #36295 on: July 25, 2017, 03:01:32 PM

My current job is a little more into Enneagrams -- I did the test and was an even split between like 4 of their somewhat vaguely defined types, so I didn't think it was super useful.   awesome, for real  Myers-Brigg makes a little more sense to me in terms of describing what sort of mental tools you tend to use first.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Khaldun
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Reply #36296 on: July 25, 2017, 08:42:38 PM

It's really not that different than astrology--and I don't mean that as a knock. Astrological readings offer you a narrative about a possible self, and you can choose what you hear in that to either sharpen a critique of your current self or to buttress some self-understanding you've arrived at. If you treat any of it as infallible word of the gods/science/etc., you're missing the point.
Ironwood
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Reply #36297 on: July 26, 2017, 03:33:24 AM

It's really not that different than D&D Alignments.

You know, total and utter fucking simplistic bullshit.


"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Khaldun
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Reply #36298 on: July 26, 2017, 06:51:35 AM

Sure. But so is "depression" or any number of other ways we try to compartmentalize the complicated totality of what we are as individuals and human beings. Understanding complexity is a long journey, and for a lot of people it has to start with something they can tangibly grasp and work with.
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Reply #36299 on: July 26, 2017, 06:53:15 AM

Doesn't stop me being angry about it.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Sky
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Reply #36300 on: July 26, 2017, 08:48:14 AM

Doesn't stop me being angry about it.

Well, that applies to anything, really.

Like the way we simplify the Scottish condition to 'angry about stuff', rather than the nuanced wordlview of an ancient people who've had to deal with those English cunts for this long.

01101010
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Reply #36301 on: July 26, 2017, 09:18:01 AM

Doesn't stop me being angry about it.


I'm with ya... and I'm not even part Scottish.

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Khaldun
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Reply #36302 on: July 26, 2017, 10:06:53 AM

The main thing to get angry about is when employers use MB (or anything of that type) as a tool in hiring, promotion and so on.
Endie
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Reply #36303 on: July 26, 2017, 02:19:50 PM

That Myer-Briggs shit sets my teeth on edge.

Typical Scorpio.  I mean "INTP", sorry.

Which is to say ditto, but people do love to be pigeonholed with a bunch of vague, positive descriptions of themselves: "Oh, that is sooo me!"  They also love to do quizzes that tell them they are on the autistic spectrum, weirdly.

Edit: OK I read this page, now, and my incisive astrology snipes turn out to have been done.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 02:24:26 PM by Endie »

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Reply #36304 on: July 26, 2017, 02:22:04 PM

I have to admit it's pretty handy that everyone in the world is such simpletons that they fall into one of 16 categories, though.

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schild
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Reply #36305 on: July 26, 2017, 02:32:30 PM

The main thing to get angry about is when employers use MB (or anything of that type) as a tool in hiring, promotion and so on.

Mostly this. People who do this are not to be worked for.
Hawkbit
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Reply #36306 on: July 26, 2017, 05:38:15 PM

The main thing to get angry about is when employers use MB (or anything of that type) as a tool in hiring, promotion and so on.

Mostly this. People who do this are not to be worked for.

Yes. I only used it as a tool to think about how I approach problems. Anyone putting a future on these values needs to reassess.

More importantly to me was the distinction between kinesthetic/auditory/visual learning styles. Information sticks if I break something down into parts by doing, but lectures and reading technical manuals are not a good use of my time compared to digging in.
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Reply #36307 on: July 26, 2017, 05:51:13 PM

The main thing to get angry about is when employers use MB (or anything of that type) as a tool in hiring, promotion and so on.

Mostly this. People who do this are not to be worked for.

Could be worse.


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Reply #36308 on: July 26, 2017, 06:27:29 PM

The company doing the chipping is the owner of a big private prison operation to boot.

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Reply #36309 on: July 26, 2017, 10:08:22 PM

Coney Island stand just opened a block from me.
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Reply #36310 on: July 27, 2017, 10:33:31 AM

The main thing to get angry about is when employers use MB (or anything of that type) as a tool in hiring, promotion and so on.

Mostly this. People who do this are not to be worked for.

I went into an interview a while back and they actually made me take several tests, including the Wunderlick (that thing they give to incoming NFL players in the draft).

When I asked why I didn't get the job (which was for the head of the accounting department) they said my answers indicated I would delegate too much and this was a hands on position. For the head of a department. Whose job would be to manage people.

I'm always amazed by what kind of leaders stupid companies think they need. When you're in a management position, you don't want your managers controlling all the work and being hands on. That makes you a shitty manager. Your job is to delegate the work, manage the processes, enforce policies, settle disputes, and deal with the fires that emerge in your department.

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Khaldun
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Reply #36311 on: July 27, 2017, 11:18:41 AM

The thing is that all these kinds of tests and evaluations--and frankly job interviews themselves--are proven to be astonishingly shitty predictors of how individuals will actually behave in a workplace. That's not just me guessing, there's quite a bit of research as well as some applied field testing that shows that the predictive power of almost any test or dossier of information is weak at best, and in many cases underperforms random chance. Google went through this a while back when they went back to compare performance on the ridiculously hard tests they used to give with actual performance in the company, and it turned out that many of the people who only barely performed well enough on the testing to get hired were often the strongest performers at the company in terms of leadership, innovation, output, delivery of value, etc.

In a really really abstracted, collective sense, I'm sure there's information you can gather that predicts pretty well the likely aggregate performance of a very large class or type of people. You can say for example that people with strong academic performance in high school who also have strong test scores will on average perform well in selective institutions of higher education. But that's partly because the selective institutions are custom designed to accommodate that class of people--they have a much harder time recognizing people with enormous potential who are outside of that relatively specific range and helping them to cultivate that potential. More importantly, when you zoom down to a specific individual seeking a specific opportunity, those very general predictions can be astonishingly shit.
Mandella
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Reply #36312 on: July 27, 2017, 01:38:14 PM

The main thing to get angry about is when employers use MB (or anything of that type) as a tool in hiring, promotion and so on.

Mostly this. People who do this are not to be worked for.

I went into an interview a while back and they actually made me take several tests, including the Wunderlick (that thing they give to incoming NFL players in the draft).

When I asked why I didn't get the job (which was for the head of the accounting department) they said my answers indicated I would delegate too much and this was a hands on position. For the head of a department. Whose job would be to manage people.

I'm always amazed by what kind of leaders stupid companies think they need. When you're in a management position, you don't want your managers controlling all the work and being hands on. That makes you a shitty manager. Your job is to delegate the work, manage the processes, enforce policies, settle disputes, and deal with the fires that emerge in your department.

Doesn't sound like there was anything wrong with the tests. You answered honestly and weren't what they were looking for.

The fact that they were apparently looking for the stereotypical micromanaging Pointy Haired Boss is beside the point....
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Reply #36313 on: July 27, 2017, 09:54:13 PM

So back to the nonsense that is my life, because holy shit, guys.

So we met with a lawyer yesterday to discuss the dissolution. It's uncontested so that's what it is rather than a divorce. Went over the paperwork required, how different calculations are made, outlined the plan she and I had already agreed to, etc.  Today I started filling out the forms based on that. One of them is, of course, an asset/ debit list.

I wrote down what I knew about. Cars, house, her associates degree loans, credit card debt. All total I figured it was about $240k, tops, with any hidden debt.

Yeah.. final debt is over 300k. Like, she'd owe ME money rather than me paying support despite me earning 2.5x her salary.

What. The. Ever. Loving. Fuck.

My bad for not having dredged up her credit report in the last 2 years. Fuck me for that, lesson learned way too late.

Well, at least I'll get to keep my house up until I have to sell it. No way I'm assuming all the debt to try and do that, no need for it! Heh. She keeps the school loans now.

Fuckin' a.

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Sky
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Reply #36314 on: July 27, 2017, 10:09:45 PM

Holy shit, indeed  ACK!

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Reply #36315 on: July 28, 2017, 10:37:06 AM

Am I an asshole for wanting to actually congratulate Merusk on sorting this shit out and his new prospects on a better life without teh crezy?

Nope.

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Reply #36316 on: July 28, 2017, 10:50:42 AM

Well, oddly, that makes me feel slightly better about some of my marital/money/secrecy problems, not that I'm exactly happy about them. But lots of feels and fingers crossed that the remainder of the dissolution has you looking forward to a better life. Money in this sense is like sex; it is a thing that you need to be able to trust a partner about and yet sometimes can't trust about.
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Reply #36317 on: July 28, 2017, 11:11:45 AM

So back to the nonsense that is my life, because holy shit, guys.

So we met with a lawyer yesterday to discuss the dissolution. It's uncontested so that's what it is rather than a divorce. Went over the paperwork required, how different calculations are made, outlined the plan she and I had already agreed to, etc.  Today I started filling out the forms based on that. One of them is, of course, an asset/ debit list.

I wrote down what I knew about. Cars, house, her associates degree loans, credit card debt. All total I figured it was about $240k, tops, with any hidden debt.

Yeah.. final debt is over 300k. Like, she'd owe ME money rather than me paying support despite me earning 2.5x her salary.

What. The. Ever. Loving. Fuck.

My bad for not having dredged up her credit report in the last 2 years. Fuck me for that, lesson learned way too late.

Well, at least I'll get to keep my house up until I have to sell it. No way I'm assuming all the debt to try and do that, no need for it! Heh. She keeps the school loans now.

Fuckin' a.
She's in for a rough life.
calapine
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Reply #36318 on: July 28, 2017, 11:51:41 AM




I..uh...find this strangely arousing.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

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Merusk
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Reply #36319 on: July 28, 2017, 01:33:22 PM

She's in for a rough life.

Without a doubt, but I'm no longer in my 20's and no longer hold the foolish notion that all people can be saved. Sometimes you have to let them drown to save yourself.

I..uh...find this strangely arousing.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Congrats, you now understand lesbian porn.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Reply #36320 on: July 28, 2017, 01:47:24 PM

She's in for a rough life.

Without a doubt, but I'm no longer in my 20's and no longer hold the foolish notion that all people can be saved. Sometimes you have to let them drown to save yourself.

That's the problem - not all people actually want to be saved, especially when it's from doing behaviors that they clearly get some kind of satisfaction from. An alcoholic who doesn't want to stop drinking for whatever reason, isn't going to stop drinking no matter what the consequences.

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Reply #36321 on: July 28, 2017, 02:00:41 PM

That's the most apt analogy ever.

There's an entire box of POP vinyls under our bed. I'd grown concerned when it got full. I didn't know it was only one of 4 such bins because they were kept hidden until last week.

Caffeinated beverages are hidden around the house and in her car like alcohol.

It just goes on. I'm only beginning to see how blinded I'd kept myself and it's shocking. I realized years ago I'd been escaping into video games and other activities because I wanted to escape. I'd never quite figured out from what and in seeing all this, it's beginning to dawn on me exactly what it was.

We had the first couples separation counseling session about 2 hours ago. That was messy in itself because she still hadn't internalized and grieved. It was the first time she'd heard me tell someone else "No, it's done. There's no reconciliation" and then starting to list out the foundational problems.  I can almost pinpoint the moment the therapist realized, "Oh yeah, this is exactly the right move."  She didn't say it, but I saw it and felt a lot better about the decision.

Sorry to blog, guys.  awesome, for real

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Reply #36322 on: July 28, 2017, 02:25:46 PM

Learning to stop trying to save every woman I found attractive was one of the key turning points in my life. Luckily I waited until I was in my 30s to get married, so it was out of my system by then.

The good news is this is the hardest point. The Band-Aid has been ripped off, and now the healing can start.

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Reply #36323 on: July 28, 2017, 03:10:04 PM

The biggest issue is just realizing that some people are perpetual fuckups. They are just at the DNA level incapable of doing anything that isn't a complete and utter disaster. That it doesn't make them bad people, per se, but that it does make living with them, or being in a relationship with them is always going to be a struggle that may or may not ever be really worth it. It also takes realizing that people do not CHOOSE to change anymore than they CHOOSE to be the way they are. People just are who they are and if you try to force them to change, it's only going to be you banging your head against a fucking impenetrable wall until one of you is fucking dead inside. If that person can't change naturally, they may be able to curb their worst impulses but it will require their desire to do so. Most people don't want to change, they want to be accepted for who they are without having to do any work to improve that person.

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Reply #36324 on: July 28, 2017, 03:11:14 PM

Sorry to blog, guys.  awesome, for real

Don't apologize.  Getting it out is cathartic and you're among friends here.

You're getting some serious justification for the dissolution of your marriage.  That's a great and wonderful thing.

Stay strong and vent on!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #36325 on: July 28, 2017, 03:15:06 PM

Everyone loves someone else's misery.  why so serious?

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Reply #36326 on: July 28, 2017, 03:17:31 PM

Everyone loves someone else's misery.  why so serious?

I lived Merusk's situation.  I empathize with the guy.  He has no idea how much better his life is about to become.  It's like walking out of a bad horror film.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 06:08:08 PM by Nebu »

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Merusk
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Reply #36327 on: July 28, 2017, 03:29:25 PM

Thanks, guys.

No, I already feel better. Talking with friends, and other online has made me realize this was a problem in the first place.

I'd never tell her but being a part of the 501st is what's triggered this.  I'd lived so much of my married life at home without enough friends who weren't also co-workers.  Being out in the public eye, seeing folks who didn't have the problems we did was that "shit" moment.  You always assume other people are lying and just as miserable as you are but faking it. Denying your own misery in public you assume they're all wearing the same false face.  

Then hearing the stories of other guy and gals who were in much, much worse situations. One friend not only had his wife cheat on him but was in the same situation financially and lost two houses and his retirement plans. How they overcame and had better, healthier relationships that I could actually see.  It made me realize just how awful my situation was, that I was the one in denial, not them.

So back in October I'd set my mind right. This was the last, the absolute last chance. The final lie came down and now I'm moving on. I think I've already grieved my loss.

It really, really is like walking out of a bad horror film. I just wish I could get over the guilt of feeling good about it and wanting to move on to the next phase as soon as possible.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
HaemishM
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Reply #36328 on: July 28, 2017, 03:32:30 PM

Never EVER feel guilty about unfucking your own life. If someone else is causing you that much misery, they can get fucked.

Sky
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Reply #36329 on: July 28, 2017, 10:24:14 PM

That's the problem - not all people actually want to be saved, especially when it's from doing behaviors that they clearly get some kind of satisfaction from. An alcoholic who doesn't want to stop drinking for whatever reason, isn't going to stop drinking no matter what the consequences.

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