Useless Conversation

[Ironwood]

Yeah, I was about to say that.  'Get Lucky' was a massive track and it's utter, utter shite.

[Soln]

I'm pretty happy to see that Weird Al is still around.  Also, Raffi has a new album. 

[Morat20]

I'm pretty happy to see that Weird Al is still around.  Also, Raffi has a new album. 

At a poker game a few weeks ago, one of the guys mentioned he'd gone to see Dave Matthews when he'd been at the big outdoor theater.  Which dates pretty much everyone at the table.

My actual first thought was, literally, "Oh yeah, I guess bands don't automatically break up the minute I stop caring". Everytime Weird Al pops up, I get a similar thought -- "Oh yeah, he's still making music. I forgot".

[MisterNoisy]

So that trial I was in jury selection for some time back just returned a verdict.

$23 billion in punitive damages.  Jebus.

[Hawkbit]

wat LOL @ florida

[WayAbvPar]

So that trial I was in jury selection for some time back just returned a verdict.

$23 billion in punitive damages.  Jebus.

I saw the headline yesterday and thought it said 23 million and couldn't figure out why it was so low. Now I see 

[Yegolev]

Not able to feel sad over:
1. Corporation
2. Big Tobacco
3. Chain smoker
4. Floridian

[Nebu]

That's not going to stick.  I'd say it's more symbolic than anything.

[HaemishM]

Symbolic and HILARIOUS. 

[Merusk]

Smart, not Symbolic. You know that if the damages were 23 million we'd have the same statement from Reynolds and a reduction down the line to 230 thousand or even less.

23 billion is point anchoring at its finest.  You can't give anything below several million without raising so much ire as to create a problem.

[Yegolev]

Time to decide on a HVAC installer and service company, so I naturally seek the advice of the regulars of Useless Conversation.

The short version is that I can get a lifetime parts and labor from Respectable ATL Metro Company for $2348 more dollars than the 12-year parts and labor from Respectable Local Company.  The semi-annual service is only $29 more for the larger company.  I figure a lifetime P+L is nothing to scoff at, but twelve years is a long time also.  Opinions?

EDIT to say also: hurry up because I'm swimming in 100% humidity here.

[Pennilenko]

Time to decide on a HVAC installer and service company, so I naturally seek the advice of the regulars of Useless Conversation.

The short version is that I can get a lifetime parts and labor from Respectable ATL Metro Company for $2348 more dollars than the 12-year parts and labor from Respectable Local Company.  The semi-annual service is only $29 more for the larger company.  I figure a lifetime P+L is nothing to scoff at, but twelve years is a long time also.  Opinions?

EDIT to say also: hurry up because I'm swimming in 100% humidity here.

If they are both reputable, then save the money and use the local guys. They will get to you quicker in a pinch. Also 12 years is a long ass time.

[Yegolev]

It is indeed a long-ass time, and I'll be in this house if both I and it are standing.  There might be HVAC FROM SPAAAACE by then.

[Cyrrex]

HVAC from space sounds like a smart idea.  That shit is cold and it is practically everywhere.

[Yegolev]

It's similar to HVAC FROM THE GROOOOOUUUUND but reliant on a working space elevator.

Was waiting for Merusk but he's apparently doing real work today, so I'm going to go with the local guy (four A and one B on Angie's List, which is practically a BJ with added ball-handling).

[Hawkbit]

I've been fairly supportive of President Obama over the past six years.  However, today's visit to Seattle for fundraising that plans to fuck the entire evening commute is pretty wack. 

[WayAbvPar]

Heh never have I been happier to be telecommuting than today. That has to be a serious clusterfuck with I-90 down to 1 lane before he even landed.

[Merusk]

It's similar to HVAC FROM THE GROOOOOUUUUND but reliant on a working space elevator.

Was waiting for Merusk but he's apparently doing real work today, so I'm going to go with the local guy (four A and one B on Angie's List, which is practically a BJ with added ball-handling).

Indeed I was. Thank Adobe for pushing a major update that I wasn't aware of being on the horizon a few weeks ago and having to manually install their shitty software through their shitty interface because allowing an install/ deploy package to overwrite an existing install isn't a thing for them.  No, you're supposed to patch 10GB of files to 60 users over the internet. Bandwidth what?  You're supposed to create a local patch server if you want to worry about things like that. No, we don't care that your boss won't give you a server for that.

 

ANYWAY... I'd go with the 12 year plan local guys.  It's a long time and "Lifetime" is "lifetime of the unit" if you read your contract, I'm sure.  New units are.. ta-da 12-15 years, depending on what the MFR says so they're equal offers, but one has a defined term in the contract.  Its also possible that 10 years go by and guess what that was that model's lifetime! SO SORRY!

So you have two offers of equal terms but one's going to cost you $2.4k more. Go with the locals, they're also closer when your HVAC goes out again. (It's Georgia, it will. Search your feelings, you know this to be true.)

Besides, if efficiencies and new tech keep up like they have been it's possible you'll find an even better unit in 10 years you'll want to replace it with.  There's some interesting stuff out there right now on the Water Heater side combining old tech like heat pumps and water heaters and cooling. I'm waiting for someone to go, "Hey wait a second, we can use that chilled compressive fluid with an AC at the same time.."

There's one thing you haven't mentioned, what brand of unit are they installing? Lennox, Rheem, Carrier and Trane are the top of the line units.  I have no experience outside of them so I would steer clear of anything not from them.

Rheem's HQ is in your neighborhood so I'd expect it to be one of their units.  I knew one of them has multiple brands and it looks like it's Carrier I was thinking of according to Wiki, so these brands are good too. : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Corporation#Brands

[Yegolev]

ANYWAY... I'd go with the 12 year plan local guys.  It's a long time and "Lifetime" is "lifetime of the unit" if you read your contract, I'm sure.  New units are.. ta-da 12-15 years, depending on what the MFR says so they're equal offers, but one has a defined term in the contract.  Its also possible that 10 years go by and guess what that was that model's lifetime! SO SORRY!

It does say that, which makes sense when compared to Computer Land.  The thing is that IBM doesn't have a EOL for it's computers, while apparently every other manufacturer does, so I'm learning about this basic concept as I branch out.

This is a Carrier in both cases.  Specifically, I'm getting the Infinity 18 VS.  If this goes well, we will consider replacing the downstairs unit.

Besides, if efficiencies and new tech keep up like they have been it's possible you'll find an even better unit in 10 years you'll want to replace it with.  There's some interesting stuff out there right now on the Water Heater side combining old tech like heat pumps and water heaters and cooling. I'm waiting for someone to go, "Hey wait a second, we can use that chilled compressive fluid with an AC at the same time.."

When I asked my wife to make sure I wasn't doing a Constanza (it's real), this is what we agreed on.  I happen to need a new water heater as well, but do I want something "normal" or something expensive and efficient?

[Merusk]

That's a call for you to make, but I lean towards efficient myself. My biggest problem with water heaters is you're basically keeping a kettle on the stove 24/7 "just in case."  That's why I love on-demand "tankless" units so much as a concept. I'm researching tankless heaters off and on because when my current tank unit goes I really want to install a tankless. My problem is I've got no natural gas so I'm not sure about the abilities of all-electric units.

If tankless doesn't work I'm going to look at the Heat-Pump/ Water heater combos. Although the problem there is if one half of the unit goes out the whole thing is gone.

If THAT still doesn't appease me there's also solar options.

The tank units need a programmable timer like your HVAC system, IMO.  Shut them off overnight, heat up in the morning for showers, evening for dishwashing & all day only on days you're doing a lot of laundry. I'm sure there's some plumbing engineer who can tell me why that's a bad idea.

[Samwise]

going to go with the local guy (four A and one B on Angie's List, which is practically a BJ with added ball-handling).

That's exactly how I ended up with my general contractor from hell.  Beware!   

[Yegolev]

About tankless water heaters, I have a summary of what I have learned over the years:
1. Electric probably won't meet your needs
2. You'll want a utility gas line, not a LP tank

My LP tank is only 120 gallons and I'm somewhat certain that it won't supply enough pressure over time to fire the heater the way we would want.  Additionally, I'd need to get someone to run pipe and redo the regulators.  About a dual-fuel HVAC, it has similar issues with me and additionally I was recommended to get a 500-gallon LP tank if I really wanted to do that but it wasn't recommended.

I might get a water heater with a heat pump on top, but last I looked at them, they were very expensive.

That's exactly how I ended up with my general contractor from hell.  Beware!   

There were four people, and the two that I discarded immediately were pretty much the sort of people you'd expect to see doing this work.  I chose the guy that had a glossy brochure, found things unprompted, made me think he is intelligent, and printed out the quote in my house.  You never really know, but I feel good about it.

Also, they can't really make it worse than it already is.  Apparently my attic is the HVAC version of a crime scene.

[dd0029]

Also, they can't really make it worse than it already is.  Apparently my attic is the HVAC version of a crime scene.

Right after I moved into my place many years ago, I had something go wrong. I can't remember what, but I had a home warranty from the purchase. I can only guess the plumber they sent out felt guilty about what he had to charge because he was looking around asking me if there was anything else he could look at. He eventually settled on whatever was going on under my kitchen sink. He said he had no clue whatever someone was trying to do under there, but he'd take it apart and put it back together correctly. He did tell me that if ever anything went wrong, I didn't know him, but 10 years later it's still good.

[Miasma]

I have a friend with a fairly large house that switched from a hot water tank to a tankless system.  After the switch it took a long time for the hot water to get to certain rooms.  This is because while the water tank was in the centre of the basement allowing it to be piped efficiently throughout the house the gas powered tankless system had to be closer to a wall so that it could vent outside.  All the plumbing changes increased the distance the water had to travel through the pipes.

Then, since we live in a climate with a winter, there was a particularly cold day with a lot of wind.  The very cold air blew in through the vents, froze the water inside the tankless system and utterly destroyed it.

[Merusk]

About tankless water heaters, I have a summary of what I have learned over the years:
1. Electric probably won't meet your needs
2. You'll want a utility gas line, not a LP tank

What, specifically, do you mean by, "won't meet your needs."  The latest info I've found is that they won't heat water as hot as you'd like it in winter, because electric is just plain inferior to gas for a quick Delta-T change. Other than that it seems ok.

I wouldn't ever try to do it by a tank, though.

I have a friend with a fairly large house that switched from a hot water tank to a tankless system.  After the switch it took a long time for the hot water to get to certain rooms.  This is because while the water tank was in the centre of the basement allowing it to be piped efficiently throughout the house the gas powered tankless system had to be closer to a wall so that it could vent outside.  All the plumbing changes increased the distance the water had to travel through the pipes.

Then, since we live in a climate with a winter, there was a particularly cold day with a lot of wind.  The very cold air blew in through the vents, froze the water inside the tankless system and utterly destroyed it.

That's awesome. Does he have a partial walk-out basement?

Complaints about water taking longer are common, especially in large houses. They've started to move towards using smaller individual room units in new construction that can afford it (large houses) to get around this.

[Paelos]

Is it just me, or are there a lot more Chicken Wing places than in the past?

[Nebu]

Is it just me, or are there a lot more Chicken Wing places than in the past?

It's brilliant from a business standpoint.  

Step 1. Buy a really cheap part of the chicken with lots of skin (fat) and little meat.

Step 2. Deep fry it.  Any high school student can do this for minimum wage.

Step 3. Cover it with a sauce.

Profit.

[MisterNoisy]

Is it just me, or are there a lot more Chicken Wing places than in the past?

It's brilliant from a business standpoint.  

Step 1. Buy a really cheap part of the chicken with lots of skin (fat) and little meat.

Step 2. Deep fry it.  Any high school student can do this for minimum wage.

Step 3. Cover it with a sauce.

Profit.

Plus you get to sell lots of high-margin alcohol to go with it.

[Yegolev]

What, specifically, do you mean by, "won't meet your needs."  The latest info I've found is that they won't heat water as hot as you'd like it in winter, because electric is just plain inferior to gas for a quick Delta-T change. Other than that it seems ok.

The metric you look at for a tankless water heater is temperature rise for a given GPM.  Electric cannot perform at the same level of this metric as gas.  That said, if you cap your GPMs during any given time period then you can be happy enough with either one.  Happy, of course, means how hot you want your water.  The people I talk to assume I want one to deliver water to my entire house.  If you get multiples and place them in strategic locations, that would work better.

[Sky]

I remember trying to get wings on the west coast back in the early 90s, for a superbowl party in SF. Could not be done. I think we found a bag of them in one of those variety meat bunkers and introduced the locals.

Life is much better now when traveling, though most places still don't make them correctly.

[Nebu]

Life is much better now when traveling, though most places still don't make them correctly.

If you're going to tell me that "correctly" means like the crappy wings in Buffalo, New York than I'd rather not have them made "correctly".

Live is always better with iterative improvements!

[Sky]

Disagree. Franks and butter is the only way.

[Nevermore]

Chinese Chicken Wings is the only way to eat chicken wings.  That spicy Buffalo stuff is terrible.

[Ingmar]

The mysteriously named "Sauce Chicken" at this place is the best version of wings I've had:

http://www.99chicken.com/m.php

All the other kinds that I've tried there are pretty good too though.

[Rasix]

It's so awesome when you find out the people managing your infrastructure have no idea what's actually in your infrastructure or how to manage it. 

Java isn't helping.  Java NEVER helps.  "Java would like to run this with a newer version." "OK" "Java has crashed.  Would you like to know more?"