Useless Conversation

[Ironwood]

So in a related note, a client called looking for some more support like the stuff I did for him about 6 months ago.  His wife, lovely woman, made me tea, was really, really nice, turns out to have died of a unbelievably swift cancer that was diagnosed and then killed her.  She was the company accountant and I redid her machine, putting the whole Sage system to rights which she was gushingly happy about.  And now she's dead.

Fuck Cancer.

 

[ghost]

Yeah, cars have always been a mystery to me, although I did do some car stereo installation back when that was a thing.

[Sky]

I cut the dash on my 66 falcon to install an Alpine stereo in 88. Steel dash! I love old cars.

[Salamok]

Since we are on car repair now, over the last month I can detect a faint odor of coolant when I run my heater, I'm guessing this is a small leak in the heater core.  This is an expensive repair on my car as it involves removing pretty much the entire dash area, I think I would be game to do it myself but am worried that I wont be fixing the right thing anyone have some better diagnosis ideas other than my gut feeling?

[Nebu]

I have fixed and replaced about anything there is to replace on cars that are pre-1980.  I'd be afraid to work on anything built since 2000.  Too much computer controlled crap. 

[ghost]

Don't the technicians pretty much just hook the cars up to a diagnostic machine and do what it tells them these days, primarily because it is all so complex?

[Hammond]

You can buy one of those code scanners and it will tell you the error codes which you can look up. Of course with a heating core I doubt it will.

[Merusk]

Don't the technicians pretty much just hook the cars up to a diagnostic machine and do what it tells them these days, primarily because it is all so complex?

That and for liability reasons.  I was told once that "Well we know it's a problem with <i don't even remember, it was 3 cars ago>, but your system isn't reporting it so we aren't permitted to fix it."   

[IainC]

Flying to Madrid on Monday to discuss the terms of an employment offer. Finally looks like I'm going to be working again.

[ghost]

Don't the technicians pretty much just hook the cars up to a diagnostic machine and do what it tells them these days, primarily because it is all so complex?

That and for liability reasons.  I was told once that "Well we know it's a problem with <i don't even remember, it was 3 cars ago>, but your system isn't reporting it so we aren't permitted to fix it."   

That's awesome. 

[Khaldun]

We had a great plumber for a while. I think he retired (or worse) because he isn't returning calls any more. I really hate the big companies--there's a model now in a lot of service industries where some big company buys up every local operator, fires almost everyone, re-hires really young people who've just gotten certified/educated, pays them as little as possible, and forces everyone working there to try and sell a million unnecessary expensive services. We've seen it with a vet we used to go to, with a plumbing business we used (before our recent guy), with an electrician we used, and with a tree-cutting service.

What usually happens is that these guys eventually piss off everybody and get really bad reviews on Angie's List and so on and then the big company guts the local providers further to the absolute nub until they can't any longer and then they just close that branch.

[Nebu]

Flying to Madrid on Monday to discuss the terms of an employment offer. Finally looks like I'm going to be working again.

I didn't know that you were a matador.

[ghost]

We had a great plumber for a while. I think he retired (or worse) because he isn't returning calls any more. I really hate the big companies--there's a model now in a lot of service industries where some big company buys up every local operator, fires almost everyone, re-hires really young people who've just gotten certified/educated, pays them as little as possible, and forces everyone working there to try and sell a million unnecessary expensive services. We've seen it with a vet we used to go to, with a plumbing business we used (before our recent guy), with an electrician we used, and with a tree-cutting service.

What usually happens is that these guys eventually piss off everybody and get really bad reviews on Angie's List and so on and then the big company guts the local providers further to the absolute nub until they can't any longer and then they just close that branch.

It's the American Way, right?  I'm just grateful I live in a large town where that would be almost impossible and there still seem to be independent plumbers, electricians and yard maintenance crews.  The most awesome thing is that this is happening with healthcare, as we speak.  Just wait-  in 10 to 15 years the concept of an independent family doctor will be almost completely gone.  Then the big companies will do the same thing with the doctors-  fire everyone competent and bring in the newly graduated peons who know next to nothing.  

[Yegolev]

You can buy one of those code scanners and it will tell you the error codes which you can look up. Of course with a heating core I doubt it will.

This is entirely doable.  The hard part is disassembling the car and putting it back together correctly.  When I lift the hood of my car, it most closely resembles the surface of the Death Star.  In my last car, I had to remove the air intake to replace a headlamp and wasn't able to get it back into the peg-hole that it came out of.  So I think I'm done with that.

[Morat20]

We had a great plumber for a while. I think he retired (or worse) because he isn't returning calls any more. I really hate the big companies--there's a model now in a lot of service industries where some big company buys up every local operator, fires almost everyone, re-hires really young people who've just gotten certified/educated, pays them as little as possible, and forces everyone working there to try and sell a million unnecessary expensive services. We've seen it with a vet we used to go to, with a plumbing business we used (before our recent guy), with an electrician we used, and with a tree-cutting service.

What usually happens is that these guys eventually piss off everybody and get really bad reviews on Angie's List and so on and then the big company guts the local providers further to the absolute nub until they can't any longer and then they just close that branch.

Trying to get ahold of the local guys that replaced my pipes (20+ years down here), I kept getting similarly named companies that all went to the same voice mail service. I went through -- no kidding -- like 10 different plumber names, and 8 of them went to the same company.

[Merusk]

Don't the technicians pretty much just hook the cars up to a diagnostic machine and do what it tells them these days, primarily because it is all so complex?

That and for liability reasons.  I was told once that "Well we know it's a problem with <i don't even remember, it was 3 cars ago>, but your system isn't reporting it so we aren't permitted to fix it."   

That's awesome. 

I know, right?  Hooray for progress!

[WayAbvPar]

You can buy one of those code scanners and it will tell you the error codes which you can look up. Of course with a heating core I doubt it will.

This is entirely doable.  The hard part is disassembling the car and putting it back together correctly.  When I lift the hood of my car, it most closely resembles the surface of the Death Star.  In my last car, I had to remove the air intake to replace a headlamp and wasn't able to get it back into the peg-hole that it came out of.  So I think I'm done with that.

Yeah, even replacing headlight bulbs is an arduous task these days. Engines (and thus the space under the hood) are smaller on average, and everything is just jammed in there so you have to move like 2 other components just to get at things.

Flying to Madrid on Monday to discuss the terms of an employment offer. Finally looks like I'm going to be working again.

I didn't know that you were a matador.

 

[Yegolev]

I can't imagine that learning to solder copper pipe is harder than replacing a headlamp in a 2005 Altima.  PVC and glue should be easier, and push-fittings are Easy Mode.  I replaced a instant-hot-water unit and installed a filter under my kitchen sink, would do this again.  Replaced a faucet cartridge more than once: easy.  When a headlamp goes out in my 2011 G37, I'm taking to to someone.  Rear lamps, TBD; I can probably get to those.

[ghost]

I can't imagine that learning to solder copper pipe is harder than replacing a headlamp in a 2005 Altima.  PVC and glue should be easier, and push-fittings are Easy Mode.  I replaced a instant-hot-water unit and installed a filter under my kitchen sink, would do this again.  Replaced a faucet cartridge more than once: easy.  When a headlamp goes out in my 2011 G37, I'm taking to to someone.  Rear lamps, TBD; I can probably get to those.

It's not so much the "what" in plumbing, it's more the "where" and "in what conditions", e.g. having to dig a 4 foot trench to get under a slab, under a tiny little sink at a 90 degree angle or while resting in a pool of sewage.  Some plumbing is easy, but it's certainly not always that way.  I'm looking at my current bathroom sink wondering what sort of contortionist I'm going to have to hire to fix it. It can't be me, that's for sure.

[Yegolev]

Oh, right.  That's what I call "meta-plumbing", when you know what to do but really don't want to be the guy up to his elbows in turds.

[ghost]

I pretty much cured myself of an delusions that I was a plumber last year when I pulled up a seriously clogged up toilet to figure out what the problem was.   

[Rasix]

Was it poop?  Human hand? Giant ball of scorpions? 

[rattran]

This coming winter's house project is to rip out the tangled mess of mixed copper and iron that is the plumbing in my house, and go with pex. I think I'll break even on material selling the copper, there's far more than would be needed if it hadn't been retrofit years after the house was built.

I'm sure it will be as much work and frustration as replacing the heating system, but at least it'll keep me busy and in practice swearing.

[ghost]

Was it poop?  Human hand? Giant ball of scorpions? 

 

[Merusk]

It was a ball of scorpions wrapped around a human hand clutching a wad of hair, wasn't it.  Hair is worse than poop, IMO because at least poop breaks down.  Hair just clumps and... gels.

I'll never replace my copper pipes with pex. Love pex as a system but the local problems around water delivery and the ability for copper to kill microbes makes it too attractive to me.

[ghost]

Hair is worse than poop

No.  No it's not.   

I'll never replace my copper pipes with pex. Love pex as a system but the local problems around water delivery and the ability for copper to kill microbes makes it too attractive to me.

I heard some bad things about pex back when we were building our last house.  Have there been any problems with it?

[Nebu]

I'll never replace my copper pipes with pex. Love pex as a system but the local problems around water delivery and the ability for copper to kill microbes makes it too attractive to me.

You might want to do some reading about this.  Copper salts are antimicrobial, but often in uM - mM concentrations.  I doubt that your pipes are being oxidized at a rate fast enough to maintain those concentrations.  Surface antimicrobial activity is small and often overshadowed by an oxidized surface layer, which goes back to my first point.

[Morat20]

I've had pex for six years or so now. Maybe 8. As long as it's expansion joined -- I think that's the term. Basically when it hits a join, they stretch the end of the pex out, slip the join in, and let it slap back on. Some ridiculous amount of pressure keeps it sealed. That's the way you want, not the crap way where they basically slide it on and zip-tie it tight. Fuck that.

Anyways, eight years, no problems. Quiet, required a heck of a lot less cutting into my walls, can freeze without bursting, and long-lasting.

Speaking of electrician: Two trips to home depot -- first for a universal fan remote for the ceiling fan and a new bathroom fan (it didn't work), and then back AGAIN to return the universal remote that didn't work.

The new one works, only the light socket is too far from the fan, so it's unreliable. (A foot closer and it's fine). So currently moving the lightswitch two feet. UGH.

New bathroom fan not quite as big as old one, so the sheetrock guy will have to patch the edges whenever I can get him out here. Also, dog woke up the neighborhood whom I forgot works nights. So, yeah. CRAPPY DAY and I haven't even gotten the bill. Except for, you know, the bathroom fan, universal remote, light bulbs, and a few other things....

(Also, bathroom fan doesn't vent anywhere but attic. But it's next to a soffit, so it's just gonna vent out anyways. Probably why the original owner didn't have it vented. Or was a cheapskate).

[Merusk]

I'll never replace my copper pipes with pex. Love pex as a system but the local problems around water delivery and the ability for copper to kill microbes makes it too attractive to me.

You might want to do some reading about this.  Copper salts are antimicrobial, but often in uM - mM concentrations.  I doubt that your pipes are being oxidized at a rate fast enough to maintain those concentrations.  Surface antimicrobial activity is small and often overshadowed by an oxidized surface layer, which goes back to my first point.

Actually it's my understanding that the unoxidized, raw copper is the better killer.  They're registerd with the EPA as antimicrobial surfaces now.
http://www.antimicrobialcopper.com/us/scientific-proof/registration-against-bacteria.aspx

[Nebu]

Merusk: There is a difference between copper contact surfaces (handles, knobs, fixtures) and the inside of a water-containing pipe.  The surface monolayer will be contaminated very quickly by oxidation and other processes.  You're correct about the surface activity of copper in a dry environment.

I did manage to find a few nice articles on the activity of copper surfaces that I was unaware of, so thanks for that.  I wanted to post a few links, but they all require subscriptions.  

Appl. Environ. Microbiol. March 2011 vol. 77 no. 5 1541-1547

HERE is a link if you can get access.

The article shows that contact killing times are on the order of minutes/days.  Too long for that of flowing water.  They would help with stagnant water assuming that ionic contaminants and oxidation of the surface aren't an issue.

[Merusk]

I heard some bad things about pex back when we were building our last house.  Have there been any problems with it?

It's a new product to this country so it's going to have detractors.  I just don't like the idea of plastic supply pipes because all plastics leech over time.

It can break-down when exposed to chlorine long-term which we use to clean our water at most purification locations.  It also breaks-down in sunlight like most plastics.  It's a risk and considering that residences and residential structures can go 30-50 years without renovation so I'd rather not spec or use it in them.  Commercially I wouldn't have a problem because those spaces are rehabed so often the pipes are likely to get replaced. 

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/green-products-and-materials/18789/pex-tubing

Response #6 has a great break-down of the costs of copper vs. the risks and costs of PEX.   

[Signe]

Everything's always about poop with you people.

[ghost]

Well, shit.

[Yegolev]

Poop is unavoidable.

About connections, push-in connections are great these days and work on copper as well as PEX.  So I'd not expect anyone to need to zip-tie anything.

I think I'll be fine with plastic in situations like under-the-sink where I can replace it easily, but using it for my main lines doesn't seem terribly smart.  Except that I might use it to redo the line out to my garage since the copper freezes and splits, and if PEX can survive freezing that would be great.

[WayAbvPar]

Poop is unavoidable.

You should put that on a t-shirt and get Forrest Gump rich.