Useless Conversation

[Sky]

We could have had our damn flying cars by now.

Which would end the human race as everyone dies in fiery explosions because they couldn't stop fucking texting.

I've seen the future, and a solid 90% of the human race just wouldn't be able to adapt and we've cockblocked evolution.

[satael]

Fuck the Olympics, watching a bunch of engineers biting their nails for ten minutes and then erupting into cheers when they get confirmation their robot landed as planned is where it is at (and no NBC tape delay).

[Hammond]

Fuck the Olympics, watching a bunch of engineers biting their nails for ten minutes and then erupting into cheers when they get confirmation their robot landed as planned is where it is at (and no NBC tape delay).

Fuck yea! you could just feel the tension in the room.   2.6 billion dollars might be part of that though....   

When I saw the lander plans a few years ago all I could think was what mad scientist designed that?    Seriously a sky crane?

[Ironwood]

You knock your pan out doing a 6 month project in under a week and the client, who set the absurdly stupid timescale for ridiculous reasons, then turns around and says 'No, we're not ready, can it wait ?'

Fuck you Clients.

Fuck.  You.

[ghost]

The customer is always correct.   And they should be punished for their arrogance. 

[Merusk]

No.  No they're not. Not even a little bit.

They're right only in so far as knowing what they want.  What they wasn't doesn't always mesh with reality and it's your job as a professional to explain why.

I have to tell clients No all the time.  Why? Because some things are expensive and they don't want to include them, but they're required for a successful implementation.  Yes, you'll save $400 now by leaving out that dehumidifier, but it's going to cost you $5,000 to fix the problems you create in doing so.

[ghost]

That wasn't a serious comment.  

Also note the "they should be punished for their arrogance" part.  It's very true, in a lot of instances.

[Merusk]

I'm having 'one of those days' and have heard that used far too often in seriousness to take it any other way.

[Sky]

If there was a God, he should remove selfishness and short-sightedness from humanity or just wipe us out.

[Evildrider]

If there was a God, he should remove selfishness and short-sightedness from humanity or just wipe us out.

He doesn't have to, we are doing it all by ourselves.

[ghost]

I'm having 'one of those days' and have heard that used far too often in seriousness to take it any other way.

Yeah, I deal with that shit all the time, too.  Unfortunately it all comes down to perceived reality.  In their minds they are always right.  It's up to us to (hopefully tactfully) convince them otherwise.  I find that I'm decent at guiding people to the right decisions in most instances, but there are always those people that you just can't reach. 

[Pennilenko]

Just this morning I had a customer try that customer is always right crap with me. I packed up my gear and left him with no way to control anything in his house. Good luck getting the original out of business out of state company to come fix his junk. All of the companies that do what I do in this area all closed down a couple of years ago, and i called the couple of other guys that i know that do what I do and let them know how pleasant this gentleman is to work for. We tend to stick together because there is so few of us that we try to work together instead of cut each others throats.


Edit: Oh yeah I happen to be the only guy within a hundred miles that has the ability to procure the particular line of home automation equipment that his entire house is equipped with.

[ghost]

You're lucky if you have that sort of leverage.  Not every industry is so lucky.  I've had to send a few patients on their way because what they were looking for was not something I could provide.  They never like being asked to get a second opinion, though. 

[Paelos]

The only problems I have with clients like that is when they want to do something questionably legal.

Just this morning I had a customer try that customer is always right crap with me. I packed up my gear and left him with no way to control anything in his house.

Was this one of those type of clients that doesn't want to pay for your services, but demands everything?

[Pennilenko]

You're lucky if you have that sort of leverage.  Not every industry is so lucky.  I've had to send a few patients on their way because what they were looking for was not something I could provide.  They never like being asked to get a second opinion, though. 

I didn't used to have that leverage. A few years ago i was struggling with a small business drowning in a sea of home automation companies in this part of Florida. The housing collapse in 2007 finally got to the big boys and around 2010 there was only me and a couple of other single man small businesses left that do this type of work here. Now most of my work is going around maintenance all of the wealthy homes with lots of toys in Naples. Sure there are still some companies that do home automation here but they don't do repair, they sell total replacement packages. Even the wealthy have a hard time swallowing a few hundred thousand dollar estimate for replacement. So if they like saving money they basically have to turn to me or one of my buddies. There just aren't many guys around that still program the systems that existed within the last decade.

[HaemishM]

The only problems I have with clients like that is when they want to do something questionably legal.

I love when my account guys come to me and ask "Can you download this totally copyrighted video off of YouTube and put it on some assgoblin client's web site/Powerpoint because they totally don't want to pay for licensed versions of it?"

Then I delight in telling them it's illegal. It's especially funny when the request is coming from a law firm with an intellectual property department.

Clients are often wrong, but their wrongness can only be pointed out so many times before someone says "Yes, but they pay for things so in the end get what they want because we all like money."

[Merusk]

The questionably legal ones are always the fun ones.  I haven't run in to the problem here (because, hey, means and methods are the GC's problem!), but when I was working on houses I was working for the GC so M&M was the name of the game.   I'd often say to my boss (who was the guy stamping drawings, therefore putting his entire career on the line.)  "Well. I wouldn't do that but it's your stamp."   

9/10 times he'd come to me about 20 minutes later and say to do it the way I wanted to and not the way the cheap-ass guy who owned the company had said to do it. 

IANAL, Penn, but I think that's treading dangerously on the collusion line when you guys talk about not cutting each others throats.  Warning about problem clients, sure, that happens just about anywhere with a trade organization.  Just don't go beyond that. 

[ghost]

It never ceases to amaze me how some of the ugliest people in the world can have very cute kids.  Genetics, embryology and development are funny things. 

[Hammond]

You're lucky if you have that sort of leverage.  Not every industry is so lucky.  I've had to send a few patients on their way because what they were looking for was not something I could provide.  They never like being asked to get a second opinion, though. 

I didn't used to have that leverage. A few years ago i was struggling with a small business drowning in a sea of home automation companies in this part of Florida. The housing collapse in 2007 finally got to the big boys and around 2010 there was only me and a couple of other single man small businesses left that do this type of work here. Now most of my work is going around maintenance all of the wealthy homes with lots of toys in Naples. Sure there are still some companies that do home automation here but they don't do repair, they sell total replacement packages. Even the wealthy have a hard time swallowing a few hundred thousand dollar estimate for replacement. So if they like saving money they basically have to turn to me or one of my buddies. There just aren't many guys around that still program the systems that existed within the last decade.

Sounds like a nice line.  Out of curiosity what brand do you re-sell?  We have been rolling out a few installs within our company for conference rooms with some stuff by these guys http://auroramultimedia.com/    Decent gear with so-so documentation.  The support has been great though.

[Chimpy]

Autodesk is the devil.

That is all.

[Hammond]

Autodesk is the devil.

That is all.

Reason we switched to Solidworks.  Only problem I have with Solidworks is you REALLY got to make sure the drivers for the video cards are on the tested list. 

[Merusk]

Autodesk is the devil.

That is all.

Yes. Yes they are.

Too bad they buy-up the viable alternative companies and om-nom their goodies into their bloated half-supported products.

[Chimpy]

Half hour to install MEP, oh hi they also need Architect, gotta install that as well. Another half hour gone, and the university loses its 2009 license in a little over a week! Yay for forced obsolescence.

[Sky]

Yay for forced obsolescence.

Can we talk about 10.7's removal of Rosetta?

Because 

[Merusk]

Half hour to install MEP, oh hi they also need Architect, gotta install that as well. Another half hour gone, and the university loses its 2009 license in a little over a week! Yay for forced obsolescence.

If you own the license you shouldn't ever lose it, only support from Autodesk for it. Considering that 2009 hasn't been patched in 4 years this isn't that big of a problem. (You WILL, however, be losing the ability to read files folks create in newer versions since most people only save-down one version and you'll be 2 out of date.  They rework the .dwg file structure every 3 years to bake-in the new features and database optimizations.)

They, like other softwares, are moving to a subscription model where you won't even own the licenses anyway.  Pay your yearly fee or else you don't get access to any of your working files.  Whee.

[Chimpy]

The distributed network educational license terms are they have to turn off the license server (which all copies must authenticate to every time they run, no working on a laptop in the field if you can't VPN in) when their three year cycle ends. The dept could have upgraded people earlier, but the original plan was to upgrade autocad at the same time as moving people to newer win7 boxes and they got delayed.

Alas, it will be a long week and a half going forward.

[Merusk]

Hm.. well that sucks.  Educational institutions sure do get raped for the discount you get.

What's the cost difference between an educational sub vs. doing this odd 3-year cycle?

[Chimpy]

No idea what the price the university pays, the price is listed as "free" on the university webstore for departments, but I am sure the price is something that is pretty ass-rapey as we are talking about the most evil software company on earth here.

[schild]

Anyone here live near here: Gainesville, GA 30507?

[Sky]

Les Claypool is auctioning off his bass for charity. Read the spoiler for the details, kind of out of my pay grade but a great opportunity and cause.

[Paelos]

Anyone here live near here: Gainesville, GA 30507?

Yeah?

[schild]

Wait, do you really? Because I'm calling about an estate auction up there tomorrow morning and might need someone to pick up a ton of shit and mail it to me.

[schild]

I'll poke you tomorrow about this.

[Yegolev]

He probably lives closer than I do, the white accountants live on the north side.

[ghost]

When we discover the Martians they will take care of all our problems (hopefully not by annhiliating us).