Useless Conversation

[ghost]

I'm not sure about the design.  Is there something on the backend of the website that I'm not seeing?  The inner workings of websites is something about which I'm completely uneducated.  My liking of the Frost website has nothing to do with back end stuff, and more to do with the artistic design.  I like the pictures they put on the first page (they cycle through a new one every day).  

The other thing is that dentists always make their websites either:  A.  Too "dentisty" or B. Full of stock pictures of people laughing or smiling.  People generally don't like going to the dentist, so I don't want to make it seem to much like you're going to a dental office.  Also, I think that those stock pictures of people smiling or laughing look like ass.  This is a prime example of what I am talking about.  

[Bunk]

At best, it is an attempt to fit to a moving target that is eclipsed quickly (at least more rapidly than people refresh their websites).

That's why you pay someone a monthly to monitor and massage your rankings instead of thinking a one-time fee will do it.

This is true, however...

I deal with customers on a daily basis that whine about their website not being at the top of Google. Even if they pay someone to clean out all the stock template crap, put in good keywords, cross link, etc etc. - it won't help if the searches they are looking for are also being used by Zillo, Trulia, Realtor, etc...

Dentistry - at least you probably are not competing with megacorps for front page space.

[Yegolev]

I'm sure your application is incredible, but it doesn't need to grab focus every time it does anything.  It really doesn't.

[RhyssaFireheart]

The other thing to remember is that people are coming to your site to find information about your business, not to be entertained and wowed by random and unrelated pics or graphics.  If they are going to a site for a dentist, they expect to find out information about teeth cleaning and orthodontics, with maybe an interesting blog about related stuff the dentist chats about. 

[Yegolev]

Well, really if a dentist can't make the photos of his staff slide in from multiple directions, I'm not likely at all to think he knows a damn thing about scraping Oreos from between my teeth.

[Salamok]

I'm sure your application is incredible, but it doesn't need to grab focus every time it does anything.  It really doesn't.

Love it when IM programs default that friggen focus grabbing pop up new message notification to on.

My liking of the Frost website has nothing to do with back end stuff, and more to do with the artistic design.  I like the pictures they put on the first page (they cycle through a new one every day).  

Having an image rotator to keep your site fresh is nice but you are likely the only person who will visit it frequently enough to care.  If it was a newsy/portal type of site with frequent updates then keeping a fresh look is probably more important.  

I mostly hate that Frost site because it is all disjointed, left justified header, centered bottom nav, full justified footer (centered but the bar is full), right column widgets floated to the bottom and most importantly a total fluff home page that doesn't give me any useful content other than the nav.  Some really odd (dare I say f'd up) design choices merely for the sake of trying to be different.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Well, really if a dentist can't make the photos of his staff slide in from multiple directions, I'm not likely at all to think he knows a damn thing about scraping Oreos from between my teeth.

Well of course he doesn't know anything.  He's so backwards he's doing the teeth cleanings himself instead of letting some female hygenist do it instead and then charging you for him taking 5 minutes to chitchat and take a quick look at your teeth.*




*totally not what my dentist will do when I visit tomorrow (Wednesday) morning.

[ghost]

Having an image rotator to keep your site fresh is nice but you are likely the only person who will visit it frequently enough to care.  If it was a newsy/portal type of site with frequent updates then keeping a fresh look is probably more important.  

I mostly hate that Frost site because it is all disjointed, left justified header, centered bottom nav, full justified footer (centered but the bar is full), right column widgets floated to the bottom and most importantly a total fluff home page that doesn't give me any useful content other than the nav.  Some really odd (dare I say f'd up) design choices merely for the sake of trying to be different.

Actually it is also used as a portal to check appointments, make payments and participate in some of the contests that we have.  So many patients will visit it quite often.  

As for the layout, what would you prefer?  

The other thing to remember is that people are coming to your site to find information about your business, not to be entertained and wowed by random and unrelated pics or graphics.  If they are going to a site for a dentist, they expect to find out information about teeth cleaning and orthodontics, with maybe an interesting blog about related stuff the dentist chats about. 

It's a little different for orthodontists.  All that stuff will be in there, I just hate the typical format for orthodontic practices.  Go back and look at the one I linked.  I think 95% of them are done by Televox or Sesame and they all look exactly the same.  I want something that stands out a little bit.

[Sky]

 He's so backwards he's doing the teeth cleanings himself instead of letting some female hygenist do it instead and then charging you for him taking 5 minutes to chitchat and take a quick look at your teeth.*

Totally worth the boob time.

I'm worried, my hygienist moved to a practice (and why are they still practicing!?) closer to where she lives. She was so awesome, I hope the new one stacks up.

She was also good at cleaning teeth!

[Salamok]

Having an image rotator to keep your site fresh is nice but you are likely the only person who will visit it frequently enough to care.  If it was a newsy/portal type of site with frequent updates then keeping a fresh look is probably more important.  

I mostly hate that Frost site because it is all disjointed, left justified header, centered bottom nav, full justified footer (centered but the bar is full), right column widgets floated to the bottom and most importantly a total fluff home page that doesn't give me any useful content other than the nav.  Some really odd (dare I say f'd up) design choices merely for the sake of trying to be different.

Actually it is also used as a portal to check appointments, make payments and participate in some of the contests that we have.  So many patients will visit it quite often. 

As for the layout, what would you prefer? 

Anything that sticks to a cohesive theme or design?  Much depends on how much content you have.  I still like clearly defined pages with some padding all the way around, organic textures, tight rounded corners, slim headers, thick footers and lots of overlapping shadows. 

[ghost]

Having an image rotator to keep your site fresh is nice but you are likely the only person who will visit it frequently enough to care.  If it was a newsy/portal type of site with frequent updates then keeping a fresh look is probably more important.  

I mostly hate that Frost site because it is all disjointed, left justified header, centered bottom nav, full justified footer (centered but the bar is full), right column widgets floated to the bottom and most importantly a total fluff home page that doesn't give me any useful content other than the nav.  Some really odd (dare I say f'd up) design choices merely for the sake of trying to be different.

Actually it is also used as a portal to check appointments, make payments and participate in some of the contests that we have.  So many patients will visit it quite often. 

As for the layout, what would you prefer? 

Anything that sticks to a cohesive theme or design?  Much depends on how much content you have.  I still like clearly defined pages with some padding all the way around, organic textures, tight rounded corners, slim headers, thick footers and lots of overlapping shadows. 

Can you link something you like so I can look at it?

[Salamok]

Most of what I deal with is more of a blog or app layout and that doesn't lend itself well to a brochure site.  I kind of like the fuel cms web site layout although I find the fact that the bullet points are not links to more in depth content odd. It does however cheesily display some of the current trends (big graphic, drastic page transition to a big footer, no sharply defined left/right page edges).  You could also just browse the billion wordpress themes out there to "get inspired".

edit: Keep in mind I'm a government drone so I'm nearly colorblind from staring at red/white/blue color themes all day and any sense of style I once had has been beaten out of me.

[Xanthippe]

The other thing is that dentists always make their websites either:  A.  Too "dentisty" or B. Full of stock pictures of people laughing or smiling.  People generally don't like going to the dentist, so I don't want to make it seem to much like you're going to a dental office.  Also, I think that those stock pictures of people smiling or laughing look like ass.  This is a prime example of what I am talking about.  

I bet they're all designed by these guys.

[ghost]

Probably 90% of the websites designed for orthodontists are designed by either Televox or Sesame Communications, not necessarily because other folks can't design the websites, but because of the very convenient other features they offer that integrate very nicely with the website (how convenient..... ).  My example site was a Televox design.  I'm sure you could farm all this stuff out and do it cheaper/better, but to be honest I'm pretty busy trying to treat patients, not deal with website crap. 

[RhyssaFireheart]

Also, apparently and completely coincidentally now that the AV program that came on my computer needs to be renewed, I have something on my computer that's sending out random links to my ISP email list.  Actually, I'm not even sure why the particular emails were chosen as I've never emailed some of those folks on this computer (new in November 2010) and it's a very small list - my new work email, my husband's home and work email, and 3 friends from my last job, none of whom I've spoken with since 2009.  It sent out an email yesterday and I couldn't get to fixing it last night and now another showed up this AM to the same group of folks, different link this time.  Here's hoping I can clean it out easily.

*sigh* Cleaned off the random whatever that appeared when I ran Malwarebytes, had a few days of nothing and then got to work this morning to find another random link sent out from my ISP email account.  I wasn't even on the computer last night, so I have no idea what is causing this.  I'll run Malwarebytes again and see what it finds, but I can't figure out what is causing this.  It's really annoying me how coincidental the timing of this happening is though.

Motherfucking goddammit!

Got another random link email sent out from my home/ISP email that I don't fucking use for anything.  It's sending the emails to a very small list of folks, including my work email, my husband's home and work emails and a few ex-coworkers that so far haven't sent me anything in complaint.  I've cleaned my system, installed another AV software (Avast) and have it enabled and yet I got another one today.  This is seriously pissing me off and I can not seem to find what is causing it.  I'll run Malwarebytes and Avast again when I get home but ARRRRRRGH!

[Engels]

Avast has an boot time scanner that's caught some deeply embedded viruses that weren't detectable, even while in Safe Mode, while the OS is up and running. Try that.

[RhyssaFireheart]

I'll try that tonight.  It's just so frustrating, since I really don't venture off a fairly small set of known websites when I'm browsing at home and I have adblock and noscript running.  *sigh*

[Hammond]

How do you know its your system sending these emails?  I can forge from addresses easily and make email look like its coming from say the Pope to Hitler if I want.  It is entirely possible they already captured your address book and just spamming them from another source.   If your friends are semi technical you can get the email headers which tell you the source.  Most email clients how a option "view source" or some such that lets you see it.  It will then list all the ips of the devices that the email goes through.  You should see the source ip somewhere in the list which you can then compare to your ip (if you do not know that go to a site like http://www.ipchicken.com/ to get it) .  Also it is possible that they are spamming through your ISP's mail server using your credentials or even another customers.  When I was doing ISP support both of these happened fairly often. 

Here is a example of what I am talking about for email headers.
http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/bctc/EmailHeaderExample.htm

Hope this helps.

[Ingmar]

Also, apparently and completely coincidentally now that the AV program that came on my computer needs to be renewed, I have something on my computer that's sending out random links to my ISP email list.  Actually, I'm not even sure why the particular emails were chosen as I've never emailed some of those folks on this computer (new in November 2010) and it's a very small list - my new work email, my husband's home and work email, and 3 friends from my last job, none of whom I've spoken with since 2009.  It sent out an email yesterday and I couldn't get to fixing it last night and now another showed up this AM to the same group of folks, different link this time.  Here's hoping I can clean it out easily.

*sigh* Cleaned off the random whatever that appeared when I ran Malwarebytes, had a few days of nothing and then got to work this morning to find another random link sent out from my ISP email account.  I wasn't even on the computer last night, so I have no idea what is causing this.  I'll run Malwarebytes again and see what it finds, but I can't figure out what is causing this.  It's really annoying me how coincidental the timing of this happening is though.

Motherfucking goddammit!

Got another random link email sent out from my home/ISP email that I don't fucking use for anything.  It's sending the emails to a very small list of folks, including my work email, my husband's home and work emails and a few ex-coworkers that so far haven't sent me anything in complaint.  I've cleaned my system, installed another AV software (Avast) and have it enabled and yet I got another one today.  This is seriously pissing me off and I can not seem to find what is causing it.  I'll run Malwarebytes and Avast again when I get home but ARRRRRRGH!

Do you know for sure that they're actually being sent from your machine? It is trivial to fake a from: address, 99% of spam does that.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Well, these just started getting sent out, about 2 weeks after the McAfee sub which came with my computer lapsed (so 3rd week of February).  I didn't port my address book over to the new computer when I changed systems and I haven't sent emails to the former coworkers on this machine.  I do use Outlook and have my Gmail and Hotmail accounts added there, but it's not sending random links to my full contacts list.  Just my work email, my husband's home and work emails, a friend's hotmail, and the 3 coworkers (one of which bounces - guess the old manager no longer works at HP). 

I scanned using Malwarebytes, found one file, deleted it.  Was good for a few days, then started again.  Ran Malwarebytes again, found a different file, deleted it.  Uninstalled McAfee, installed Avast.  Scanned again with both programs, nothing found.  Been fine until I got the email mid-morning at work today.  And I'm getting a bounce message in my home ISP email for the former manager's email not being valid any longer.  I don't use my ISP email for anything.  I think the only person that sends me anything is the husband, and he's got PC-Cillin installed and updated.  Occasionally from my mom, but nothing in weeks.  If I have to give out an email, I either use my hotmail (for stupid stuff) or my gmail (for stuff I might care about).  Which is why this is annoying me so much.

[Ingmar]

The bounce message doesn't indicate anything; SMTP is a fairly dumb protocol and will send NDRs to the "from:" address regardless of where the message actually came from.

[Salamok]

The bounce message doesn't indicate anything; SMTP is a fairly dumb protocol and will send NDRs to the "from:" address regardless of where the message actually came from.

unless return path is set.

[HaemishM]

I'm not sure about the design.  Is there something on the backend of the website that I'm not seeing?  The inner workings of websites is something about which I'm completely uneducated.  My liking of the Frost website has nothing to do with back end stuff, and more to do with the artistic design.  I like the pictures they put on the first page (they cycle through a new one every day).  

As a web designer, that Frost site irritates me on many levels. I hate the big giant image backgrounds, especially when you have to put some damn javascript thing to make that image rotate. There's better design ways to do that. Also, not very SEO, imo.

As for not using stock images, pay for a good photo shoot. Good photos of you and your office might cost more than stock, but they are more personal. Also, ask your patients what they would want your web site to be and base the design off of that.

Graphic designers, web designers and people trying to sell you templated designs can extract lots of money out of you that you will have to spend again when you get someone competent to do your site.

[Hammond]

Well, these just started getting sent out, about 2 weeks after the McAfee sub which came with my computer lapsed (so 3rd week of February).  I didn't port my address book over to the new computer when I changed systems and I haven't sent emails to the former coworkers on this machine.  I do use Outlook and have my Gmail and Hotmail accounts added there, but it's not sending random links to my full contacts list.  Just my work email, my husband's home and work emails, a friend's hotmail, and the 3 coworkers (one of which bounces - guess the old manager no longer works at HP). 

I scanned using Malwarebytes, found one file, deleted it.  Was good for a few days, then started again.  Ran Malwarebytes again, found a different file, deleted it.  Uninstalled McAfee, installed Avast.  Scanned again with both programs, nothing found.  Been fine until I got the email mid-morning at work today.  And I'm getting a bounce message in my home ISP email for the former manager's email not being valid any longer.  I don't use my ISP email for anything.  I think the only person that sends me anything is the husband, and he's got PC-Cillin installed and updated.  Occasionally from my mom, but nothing in weeks.  If I have to give out an email, I either use my hotmail (for stupid stuff) or my gmail (for stuff I might care about).  Which is why this is annoying me so much.

Since you do not know for certain if it is that machine is infected double check the source ip.  Since you are using Outlook at work you can look at the source ip fairly easily.  If you are using Outlook 2010 with the email open click on the file tab.  Next window click on properties and grab the Internet headers.  I would suggest copy and pasting them into notepad to make it easier.  The last ip listed is the first device in the email chain. Cross reference that with your home Ip. 

Assuming it is your home computer and malwarebytes, Avast and other software isn't catching I would say the easiest solution is to just wipe it and start over.  Some of these viruses are so intrusive that it will be damn near impossible to completely eradicate it.

[pxib]

In the early days of the computer industry, the most expensive part of owning a computer was the machine itself. Of all the components in such a machine, the memory was the most costly because of the number of parts it contained. Early computer memories were thus small: 16 K was considered large and 64 K could only be found in supercomputers. All of this meant that programs had to take advantage of what little space was available.

On the other hand, programs had to be written to run as quickly as possible in order to make the most efficient use of the large computers. Of course these two goals almost always contradicted each other, which led to the concept of the speed versus space tradeoff. Programmers were prized for the ability to write tricky, efficient code which took advantage of special idiosyncrasies in the machine. Supercoders were in vogue.

Fortunately, hardware evolved and became less expensive. Large memories and high speed became common features of most systems. Suddenly people discovered that speed and space were no longer important. In the roles had reversed and hardware had become the least expensive part of owning a computer.

The costliest part of owning a computer today is programming it. With the advent of less expensive hardware, the emphasis has shifted from speed versus space to a new tradeoff: programmer cost versus machine cost. The new goal is to make the most efficient use of a programmer’s time, and program efficiency has become less important — it’s easier to add more hardware.

- Chip Weems, Byte magazine August 1978

[Minvaren]

I still remember rewriting the Terminal Emulator I wrote for the C=64 in Assembler to reduce memory size and improve performance.

...8 years after that was published...

[pxib]

The place I found it specifies that Weems' article refers to the big institutional mainframes that predated and prefigured our generation of PCs and programmers. Still, everything old is new again.

[Sky]

My first gaming machine was an institutional mainframe!

[Minvaren]

Interesting article overall, and a reminded me of why I enjoyed Pascal back in the day.  I suppose these days the handheld is the latest frontier...

As we're sort-of on the topic, this story always comes to mind when talking of old-school programming.

[ghost]

I just saw the worst case of malpractice that I've ever seen in my field.  Some of the things that doctors will do in the name of money can make you very, very sad.   

[Lantyssa]

So how much did you make?

[ghost]

So how much did you make?

Nothing on this one.  I am going to do a workup on these girls (twins) for free.  They've already had braces but let's just say that the other doctor wasn't too good at removing the braces and determining what was glue and what was tooth.  I've rarely run into things that turn my stomach, but what I saw made me feel sick. 

[Salamok]

ouch, and I thought my dentist (Snortin Mortin) was bad with his 2x a year x-rays + 4x a year cleanings + multiple false fillings and billing the same claims to the 2 different insurance policies I was covered by.  On the flip side he did something right because I haven't had a cavity in the 25 years since he was sent to jail.

[K9]

So, one of the co-foudners of Invisible Children (The 'Charity' behing the whole #Kony2012 affair) has been detained for public masturbation and vandalising parked cars

 

[Lantyssa]

Nothing on this one.  I am going to do a workup on these girls (twins) for free.  They've already had braces but let's just say that the other doctor wasn't too good at removing the braces and determining what was glue and what was tooth.  I've rarely run into things that turn my stomach, but what I saw made me feel sick. 

You missed the joke, but good on you.