Useless Conversation

[RhyssaFireheart]

YAY!  White trash losers across the street are finally cutting their grass.  I'm sad because I meant to call the village today to complain about the fact that they've never fully cut the grass since they moved in back over Memorial Day weekend.  The only reason the grass wasn't even worse is because of the sheer heat and lack of rain we had around here, otherwise I could have called earlier.

Seriously, not being able to be cited until your grass is 8" high is just silly, IMO. 

Of course, now I can giggle as the male idiot just plods his way through crap cutting it.  Dude, when the grass is that high, you can't just zoom over it.  No wonder you keep choking the mower and killing it.  And I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even touch their backyard at all.

[Samwise]

If someone tattled on me for my grass not being up to their standards, I'd likely mow it into the shape of a giant dong with the words "SUCK IT" underneath. 

Probably a good thing I don't live in your village.   

[RhyssaFireheart]

Not mowing the grass for a week or two isn't a huge deal.

Not cutting the grass for over 2 months is a big deal.  It's sloppy and just makes the neighborhood look bad.  And it makes a PoS house look even worse than it needs to be.  I don't live out in farm country here.  We're in a major suburban area where the expectation is that your neighbors are going to at least make a minimal effort at keeping their place looking passable.  Besides, they got their kids taken away; it's not like the mom has anything to do all day besides sit on the front steps and smoke every hour on the hour.

/snark

[Fraeg]

There's an old pickup going around town with words the height of the back window, spanning the entire length of the window: "BALLS DEEP!"

sampled a well about 5 years in the city of Fresno, CA. We roll up to the cities public supply well and the house next to it had a pickup truck with the words "MUFF MAN" across the back of the window.  We start sampling around 8am and a guy comes stumbling out with a lit menthol cig and a bud light in hand on a weekday morning.

To be honest, nice enough guy, I was tempted to ask him "so, does the sign on the back of your truck work? you get any extra action?"

[Ingmar]

They should just ban lawns. Native plant life for everyone.

[Cheddar]

YAY!  White trash losers across the street are finally cutting their grass.  I'm sad because I meant to call the village today to complain about the fact that they've never fully cut the grass since they moved in back over Memorial Day weekend.  The only reason the grass wasn't even worse is because of the sheer heat and lack of rain we had around here, otherwise I could have called earlier.

Stop judging me.  Seriously, you are the reason I hate my neighbors and refuse to interact with them.

[Samwise]

They should just ban lawns. Native plant life for everyone.

Word.  If I felt compelled to have a grassy area in front of my house, I'd go with native bunchgrasses, which generally like to grow a foot or two high, and no way would I mow them.  But the front yard I'm going for is going to be mostly wildflowers (poppies and lupines) with a few flowering shrubs (hummingbird fuschia and manzanita).  Fuck lawns.

[Merusk]

That's great, you guys go live in the hills and leave us suburbanites to our lawns, k?

[bhodi]

I got blasted yesterday for things such as not having numbers on the BACK of my house, my downspouts not being white in the back (they are the color of the house) and they want me to replace my fence because they decided they prefer the sealed wood look to the previous white.

I've lived here 9 years and this is the first time they have said anything. I have gotten more letters in the past two or three months than I have in my entire time living here. It really makes me feel like they've decided to run me out of town by nitpicking my house.

The worst part is that I look around and I can only imagine they are blasting these things out everywhere. Yes, property values have halved. No, that doesn't mean you can use the 2000 page HOA book as a club to try and bring up the property values. Their website is down, so I can't even complain on their little forums, not that it would do any good.

[Nyght]

Watch out. There are a lot of those HOA fee foreclosures going around. I wonder if this is not some scheme to either dissuade you from paying your HOA fees or some other HOA foreclosure scheme for compliance issues.

[Paelos]

Unless you live in a Condo, HoA's are the stupidest racket imaginable. Bunch of old people and Napolean complex folks screaming about property values. The best part about working for a developer was that I got to tell them to fuck off on a regular basis.

[WayAbvPar]

They should just ban lawns. Native plant life for everyone.

Word.  If I felt compelled to have a grassy area in front of my house, I'd go with native bunchgrasses, which generally like to grow a foot or two high, and no way would I mow them.  But the front yard I'm going for is going to be mostly wildflowers (poppies and lupines) with a few flowering shrubs (hummingbird fuschia and manzanita).  Fuck lawns.

Amen. Caught an episode of Bullshit last week regarding lawns. As soon as my kid is old enough to not want to play in the yard I am going native for sure.

There's an old pickup going around town with words the height of the back window, spanning the entire length of the window: "BALLS DEEP!"

That is actually the name of a very funny Deadspin column that runs during the NFL season. Much of the humor is what you would expect from the title, but it is cleverly written and mocks most of the people who need it.

[Yegolev]

I think next spring I might challenge my neighbor who uses a hydraulic splitter to a speed contest :)

No contest!  Using a maul/splitting ax is much faster than a machine.  The difference will be if you have a lot of knotty wood.

One good point for a lawn is that no one can sneak up on you.

[lac]

Unless you live in a Condo, HoA's are the stupidest racket imaginable. Bunch of old people and Napolean complex folks screaming about property values. The best part about working for a developer was that I got to tell them to fuck off on a regular basis.

Since we don't do this kind of thing around here, except for apartments, I've read up a bit about it.
And damn if it's some sort of tyranny of a silent majority guided by overactive seniors and housewifes with too much time on their hands striving for a uniform neighbourhood devoid of any alarms or possible surprises.
While it is a pretty useless exercise in boredom, it has inspired some pretty fine art. I also now get Palin's "small town America".

I do love my neighbourhood seniors and day-time television housewives, we talk about the weather and the kids a lot while I try to make it from the car to my front door, but fuck me if one of them gave me shit about the state of my house, lawn or anything not being 100% to their liking.
On the other hand, if searching and buying a house is anything like it is here, you take what you can get and agree with whatever conditions come with it. No sane man wants to get into a pissing match with people who have too much time on their hands.

[WayAbvPar]

That was my very first rule when we were in the market- there was no fucking WAY I was buying into a HOA.

[Teleku]

Ok, can somebody explain how HOA's work?  I get the impression it isn't voluntary.  How is that possible?  I mean, it makes legal sense if its in a condo (just basically paying a fee to upkeep the building) or a gated community or something.  But, just out on a public street somewhere?  Can't you just buy a house and tell everybody to fuck off?  How are you forced into a HOA, and how is that legal?

[HaemishM]

Some neighborhoods require you join the HOA, some don't. Lots of things vary by state, hell by street. Generally speaking, any place that requires I pay a fee to have some anal  wart tell me how high my grass can get is not a place I want to live. People who measure their grass generally need to get laid a lot more, or find some other hobby besides being in my fucking business. I'm not the world's worst neighbor, but you probably wouldn't want to live near me if you are one of these types.

[lac]

It's part of the contract. If you buy the property you accept the authoritah of the Hoa.

[Samwise]

Ok, can somebody explain how HOA's work?  I get the impression it isn't voluntary.  How is that possible?  I mean, it makes legal sense if its in a condo (just basically paying a fee to upkeep the building) or a gated community or something.  But, just out on a public street somewhere?  Can't you just buy a house and tell everybody to fuck off?  How are you forced into a HOA, and how is that legal?

As I understand it, the HOA is formed at the same time the homes are constructed, and membership in the HOA is attached to the property deed. Kind of like an easement, I guess, or maybe the property is actually owned by the HOA and you're buying it from them contingent on upholding their rules?  I'm not sure exactly how these Faustian bargains are implemented.

But I'm pretty sure that if you buy a house free and clear in an area with no HOA, there's no way an HOA can move in and force you to join it.  You and I haven't had much experience with them because most of the homes in the Bay Area (the good parts anyway) were built before HOAs existed, and you can't add them in after the fact.  They're much more common in the suburbs where everything is new construction that's being marketed to uptight white people.

[WayAbvPar]

But I'm pretty sure that if you buy a house free and clear in an area with no HOA, there's no way an HOA can move in and force you to join it.

That might be enough to get me to buy a gun or 12.

[Ingmar]

HOA fees also massively screw with the ROI on purchasing a house. I was playing around with one of those rent vs. buy calculator things and adding even a relatively low HOA like $150/month (relatively low in CA terms that is, I've seen them over $300 for condos around here) pushes up the time it takes buying to beat out renting by YEARS. Avoid if at all possible.

[Rasix]

House we had a contingency offer on has an outrageous HOA fee.  But, it pays for the common landscaping and pool upkeep (I think it also requires insurance).  Otherwise, I'm not sure you really need a strong HOA with houses in that price range.  The car-on-cinderblocks type don't usually fork out that much or care about living near the racquet club.

In Tucson there's a lot of old neighborhoods, so the presence of HOAs are not necessarily a given.  Some places have done fine, others, not so much.  Our current HOA fee is nominal and it's nothing but nasty grams if you have cars parked in the street, left your garbage can out too long, or a lot of large invasive weeds in your front lawn. It hasn't prevented some houses from looking like shit or the large Italian family for parking 5 cars around their house at all times (at least one of their kids left, YAY), but I suppose it could be worse.  It makes you grateful for some standards when you're trying to sell your house.  The market, however, isn't doing us any favors.

And, I have a lawn, although it's more trouble than it's worth. It's small, but the boy, cats, and tortoise love it (as well as the rabbits that get in).  Other house doesn't have one except for the common area, and I'd need to plant some native grasses for the tortoise.

[Teleku]

Ok, can somebody explain how HOA's work?  I get the impression it isn't voluntary.  How is that possible?  I mean, it makes legal sense if its in a condo (just basically paying a fee to upkeep the building) or a gated community or something.  But, just out on a public street somewhere?  Can't you just buy a house and tell everybody to fuck off?  How are you forced into a HOA, and how is that legal?

As I understand it, the HOA is formed at the same time the homes are constructed, and membership in the HOA is attached to the property deed. Kind of like an easement, I guess, or maybe the property is actually owned by the HOA and you're buying it from them contingent on upholding their rules?  I'm not sure exactly how these Faustian bargains are implemented.

Yeah, this is the kind of thing I was wondering about.  It seems like the HOA would have to have some actual right/ownership of the property to be legal (I know nothing about property laws, so I have no idea).  I just find it hard to see how you could be legally compelled by them to do anything after buying the property if that wasn't the case.

Though, I own no houses, and am not looking to ever own one (I enjoy living in an apartment/condo in the middle of the city/action).  So this is kind of an outsider looking in question, heh.

[Cheddar]

My mother was taken to court... 2 years ago? Over missed HOA feesl.  Her accounts were frozen along with my checking account (I had left her as a secondary, real useful when the military sent me to places with sand).  She was 60 days behind and ended up paying over 2k in legal fees.

Now, mind you, she should check her mail more than once a year.  BUT - HoA's are evil, evil things wrapped up in "good intentions."  Keep this in mind; the only people with the time to enforce their rules are old crotchety people and despots with small penises.

[Merusk]

I love this argument every time it pops up.. which seems to be once a year anymore.    Be educated on what you're buying and don't move into one if you don't like it. Different strokes for different blokes.  It's no different than living in a gated community, which I'm sure you're all huge fans of as well. 

If you move into one, it's your own fault when things come down on you and you didn't follow the rules.  You bitch about getting caught speeding, too? 'Small penised' cops making your day a hassle because you cut off that car because you're oh so important that the rules don't apply? Cry some more, it's delicious.

Yes, some assholes take it too far. The old woman with the notebook of every single infarction who shows up to the meetings.  Her demands letters be issued to each homeowner for parking the boat for 4 hours too long, or their street light not being replaced within 24 hours of going out, or the grass that went unmowed two weeks because it was dry and didn't really grow that long.  She's a bitch and any competent trustee board will say some mollifying words then toss it aside.  However the asshole down the street with 4 cars on his lawn, 24" grass and broken windows who thinks the front porch is the best place for his collection of erotic Popsicle stick sculptures?  Yeah, he needs to get the boot.  His place looks like shit and it brings down not only property values but the general attractiveness of the neighborhood as well.

Broken Windows theory, folks. HOAs were established to combat it and have their place.

Ok, can somebody explain how HOA's work?  I get the impression it isn't voluntary.  How is that possible?  I mean, it makes legal sense if its in a condo (just basically paying a fee to upkeep the building) or a gated community or something.  But, just out on a public street somewhere?  Can't you just buy a house and tell everybody to fuck off?  How are you forced into a HOA, and how is that legal?

As I understand it, the HOA is formed at the same time the homes are constructed, and membership in the HOA is attached to the property deed. Kind of like an easement, I guess, or maybe the property is actually owned by the HOA and you're buying it from them contingent on upholding their rules?  I'm not sure exactly how these Faustian bargains are implemented.

But I'm pretty sure that if you buy a house free and clear in an area with no HOA, there's no way an HOA can move in and force you to join it.  You and I haven't had much experience with them because most of the homes in the Bay Area (the good parts anyway) were built before HOAs existed, and you can't add them in after the fact.  They're much more common in the suburbs where everything is new construction that's being marketed to uptight white people.

Yes, it's attached at the time the property is initially split-out into it's sub lots via Covenants and Deed Restrictions.  These cannot be removed in most places without getting the guy who originally put them on there to issue you a new deed without them or without every single person who would be affected by the removal of the restrictions on your lot agreeing to do so.  In the case of an HOA, that means at least every single member of the HOA and the company running it at that time.

I have no idea why covenants and deed restrictions carry on in perpetuity, as I'm not a real estate lawyer. Maybe one reading can share that bit of information.

Yes, HOAs can come in after the fact and form.  The whys and hows vary from state to state, but I know in the case of my subdivision it would have taken a 75% majority to form once the last lot was sold, but now would take a 95% majority to incorporate.   This is outside of the folks who can come in independently and get your whole neighborhood classified as a Historic District, forcing even more restrictions on the property via your state's requirements, so beware really old neighborhoods, too.

[Samwise]

Yes, HOAs can come in after the fact and form.  The whys and hows vary from state to state, but I know in the case of my subdivision it would have taken a 75% majority to form once the last lot was sold, but now would take a 95% majority to incorporate.

I would assume that's a matter of how the subdivision was built, not state law -- essentially there's a sort of dormant HOA that your house is a part of, and it can be resurrected if certain conditions are met.  There's no such beast in my neighborhood, so if a HOA wanted to set up shop I'm pretty sure it would need to be voluntary on the part of each prospective member.  I can't imagine the state saying that my neighbors could decide to form a HOA out of the blue and force me to be part of it.

[Merusk]

They might, but reading some of the State of Washington HOA laws as I just did you're probably right.  You'd need 100% to form, but that doesn't stop, say, the rest of the street from forming one.  There's also still that whole Historic District thing that can bite you in the ass in a big way.

One thing I didn't relate is that a lot of new properties are going to have HOAs, not at the developer's request but at the request of the city.  As covered in the Wikipedia article under "Double Taxation" (no bias there  )  it alleviates some of the burden from the cities by passing some maintenance and improvement fees along to the homeowners who directly benefit instead of to the public who may or may not pass required levies to maintain them later.

[Samwise]

They might, but reading some of the State of Washington HOA laws as I just did you're probably right.  You'd need 100% to form, but that doesn't stop, say, the rest of the street from forming one.  There's also still that whole Historic District thing that can bite you in the ass in a big way.

Pretty much the entire city of Alameda is a Historic District -- one reason I didn't buy a house there.     Although I don't find the notion of preserving historical buildings anywhere near as offensive as the notion of conforming to some fussy spinster's idea of what my front yard should look like and what shade of white my house should be painted.  I've actually been researching historical house colors with the idea of getting our house repainted in an "authentic" style for the era and location it was built in.

[Merusk]

It's not typically some "Fussy Spinster" though.  It's usually a developer looking to protect their rep, property investment and the design style of a community, more often at the behest of a city.

Old farmland is for freethinkers. Conform.

[Minvaren]

I can always tell when it's townhouse association election time, because I get ambushed on the way to the mailbox by several different groups, all bitching about other people on the board and wanting my vote to "set things right."  The times I actually stop and listen, it sounds like a full-time job keeping up with teh dramaz that go on around this place.

In other news, been waiting for 8 years for them to paint a piece of wood they replaced on my unit...   

[Murgos]

Some friends of mine are in a Condo Association.  It's four units and the drama is non-stop.

[Sky]

When I was staining trim for the living room, I let my back 40 go to seed. My riding mower is broken, there was a lot of firewood debris from where it got delivered last year and this year, etc. I just said 'fuck it, I'll deal with it later". I explained the situation to our local code nazi, and she was cool with it. My next door neighbor loved all the wildflowers, it was really nice. I left several nice stands of wildflower, mowed around them. Then I noticed several neighbors did the same, it was cool.

So when people bitch about weeds, I laugh. Most "weeds" are more beautiful than the boring grass they never let flower anyway.

[Rasix]

So when people bitch about weeds, I laugh. Most "weeds" are more beautiful than the boring grass they never let flower anyway.

Not in Arizona for the most part.  I ignored the side of my house (thin strip between the wall where the AC is) for a while and it grew into something disgusting. Well, the small green ground cover stuff (kind of looked like clover) wasn't bad, but the tall crap looked just putrid.

[Samwise]

My theory is you've got to figure out what the pretty "weeds" are and get them established so they choke out the ugly ones. 

I scattered some native poppy seeds in my front yard last year just before the fall rains started, and they grew so fast that none of the ugly foreign weeds could get a foothold.  When I finally had to clear the poppies out to do some grading, the ugly weeds immediately started reasserting themselves and yanking them out has become a constant chore.  Now that all the hardscaping and grading is done, I'm hoping I can repeat the "impenetrable carpet of wildflowers" effect this next fall and keep it going throughout the year.

[Paelos]

It's not typically some "Fussy Spinster" though.  It's usually a developer looking to protect their rep, property investment and the design style of a community, more often at the behest of a city.

Old farmland is for freethinkers. Conform.

Developers love HoAs to a point because they usually provide a buffer between them and the owners. It's a good place to say, "Go bitch at those people." However, developers have no shame about telling them to go to hell when they start making demands that cost developer money. That's where I used to come in as the accountant for several projects.