Controller Builds / Power discussion

[Azhrarn]

Haven't seen too much discussion on controllers here except as side notes in a few other topics etc.  Being as I just started playing a few days ago and haven't found many people in game to talk to about it, I was wondering if any of you really played controllers and what you liked to do with them.

The main reason I like this kind of class is I've always loved multiplayer co-op wherever I can get it, and usually try to avoid soloing as much as possible anyway (I have other games if I want to play single player).  So I usually enjoy some sort of support class.  Also, I like to play builds that muck with game mechanics as much as possible, and let me do a few different things other then direct damage etc.

Anyway, after looking over the skillsets, I eventually picked an Illusion/Radiation controller for the variety of skills available.  Gravity or Mind Control were close seconds, but I'm a sucker for stealth, and going with the Teleport power pool mitigates one of Gravity's bigger powers.  And radiation has some nice debuffs, a heal, and some interesting things like Mutation.

Spectral Wounds - Some decent damage to help ding minions or pull a bit.  Usually have this on auto cast, although it has got me into some trouble when I accidentally ping a purple when running through town. :)  Slotted with an End Cost reduction, recharge speed increasse, and two +dam so far.

Radiant Aura - Nice player based AoE heal, decent recharge, a bit expensive.  Has saved quite a few people from the brink of death.  Can cast it while running, and it goes off fast.  Slotted with three +heals.

Radiation Infection - Target based AoE debuff.  Stays up indefinitely once cast, and always seems to stick so far.  Lowers their accuracty and defense, along with any mobs near them.  I usually lead off with casting this on a boss, or cast it on a minion near them so I don't have to recast if the boss goes down quick.  The other main radiation debuff reduces their damage and resistances.  I was kinda on the fence about taking it, although I can probably have both up at once.  But for now I'm not.  Forgot what I slotted with, probably an End cost reduction.

Accelerate Metabolism - Group AoE buff, sticks to teamates once cast, stays up for a minute or two I think.  Has a huge recharge time, I have it slotted with 3 recharge DOs right now I believe.  The other three being endurance recharge DOs.  Nice buff, increases End regen, run speed, damage, and effects resistance.

Swift - Run speed increase, mainly as a pre-req for Stamina.  Although I do enjoy the speed increase with all the running I do.  Slotted with 2 speed increases so far.

Recall Friend - Fun skill for pulling confused friends to you.  With this and Teleport, the group TP is hardly necessary.  Unfortunately takes ~5 secs to cast (can slot it with minus interrupt enhancers that might reduce the total time... I haven't dones so yet though) and can be interrupted.  On the plus side, has GREAT bass if you have good speakers. ;)  Sounds like a jet engine or something.  I threw an End reducer in the default slot I think.  It's difficult to use in battle, because not only do you have to back off so you don't get interrupted (which means you aren't doing other things to help), but if you are using it to rescue someone the cast time can be significant enough to result in just summoning their corpse.  On the plus side, pulling corpses somewhere for a safe local res is handy.

Deceive - Single target confuse.  I love these kinds of powers, they are just different then most other things.  This will almost always land on an even con, and maybe 2/3 or the time on an orange con.  And probably 1/4-1/5 of the time on a non-boss red con.  I haven't seen it hit a purple yet.  It does seem to be more effective now with red cons then it was when I first got it though.  You may not get experience with kills from it, but I usually use it to soften up mobs or as a form of hold.  It doesn't stick overly long, but as soon as it is cast, makes a very nice hold, or for bouncing back mobs who broke the line and are bum rushing you.  It also pulls no aggro, so is usefull for causing random mayhem with no retaliation.  I tend to cast it on minions to help soften the other mobs, as they are less likely to kill things.  Slotted with some end and recharge reducers.  A few +Accuracy will be nice as well.

Group Invisibility - Oh I love this skill, skipped over the other invis skills to this one, as it seems to have the most benefit.  A moderately long recharge time though.  Not quite as long as Accelerate Metabolism.  A few recharge reducers help nicely.  Running through town is nice, as I can run through the middle of mob groups with none attacking me.  Also makes you fairly hard to hit in combat.

Teleport - Just got this.  And I love it.  Super Jump is nice, but I enjoy popping around in the air for no particular reason.  And teleping straight up for kamikazee rushes as you fall is always fun.  People say hover is usefull with it, but they just have way too long of an attention span.  You hover for like 3 whole seconds after you pop!  I'll probably put an end reducer in it (altough it doesn't need a whole lot), and a few range increases - as it pops a little less then 100 yards away at max currently I think.  The main problem is trying to land on top of something, as you have to overshoot it and hope you can fall on it, or try and cast a second itme while above it to adjust your landing.

(Note - haven't got the following yet, but this is the plan.  Possibly not in this exact order though)

Level 16 : Health - Life Regen GOOD, Napster BAD.

Level 18 : Mutation - I'm not normally one for rezzing, especially when I can summon a teammate from a hospital fairly quickly.  And in this game, if teammates are dropping, then something is probably going horribly wrong anyway.  But, they are sometimes usefull, and the way this one buffs the teammate just sounds fun. :)  I'm thinking of getting fallout as well to cast first on the corpse, before I res it, but there were a few other things I wanted instead.  Although I may grab it later.

Level 20 : Stamina - Endurance recovery. 'Nuff Said.

Level 22 : Assault - Damage increase, so I can laugh at the blasters when they pull even more aggro.

Level 24 : Combat Jumping - Easier to maneuver inside then teleport, and a nice little defense buff.

Level 26 : Spectral Terror - Make mobs get the hell away from me.

Level 28 : Choking Cloud - Hey!  I got a hold!  So shut up about me not mezzing anything beyond decieve.

Level 30 : Tactics - Help land more stuff on harder mobs.  Maybe lower the need a bit for accuracy slots on other skills.  Not that I use any now.

Level 32 : Phantasm - Pets are fun.  Pets that summon more puts are funner.

Level 35 : Maneuvers - Defense just in case.  I think I was running out of stuff I wanted at this level (well, that didn't overlap with other stuff).

Level 38 : EM Pulse - Apparently a huge AoE hold that does quite a bit of damage.


One of my main goals was to avoid redundant skills, and to have things that were fun to use.  I know a lot of the Illusion controllers out there say that Phantom Army, Blind, flash are essential; but pfft.  I thought the other powers sounded more fun to play with, and I refuse to just do boring holds the whole time.  Moving targets are fun :)  Any thoughts or interesting alternative picks?

[Phred]

I would think if you want a team oriented support AT, not taking flash and blind with illusion would be like taking empathy as a defender and not taking any of the heals.

I've never actually played with anyone that used the fear powers. Having mobs running away hasn't seemed like a popular concept in CoH.

[Murgos]

Similarly not taking Phantom Army at 18 is like making a blaster and taking only melee attacks.  Sure you could do it, but why?  Your forgoing on of the class defining powers.

I dunno about your build.  A Controller that ignores CC and pets?  Seems like a recipie for gimping yourself and then complaining about how underpowered you are.

[Azhrarn]

I already get two holds from radiation, limited targeted holds with decieve, and another form of crowd control/herding with spectral terror.  Then I have a higher pet from a couple levels down in the Illusion line rather then a weaker one earlier.  No real need for two different pets that I can see.

One of the points of this is for a fun build to play, which it has been so far.  I'm hoping eliminating redundancy and careful power management at higher levels should make for a more interesting and invilved game.

-----------------------------
Phantom Army:
Ranged, Minor Energy Damage

2-4 short lived phantasms around targeted enemy, deals spectral damage like spectral wounds.  Can't heal or buff.  Good for distractions (weak hold), and probably better for soloing due to being indestructable and increased hit rate of multiple copies.  Cost is same as Phantasm according to the hero planner.

----

Phantasm:
Ranged, Moderate Energy damage

Can summon phantom copies of itself (copies can't be buffed, but main can).  Copies do phantom damage, main does real damage.  And it can fly.  Casts fairly quick, same cost as Phantom Army, a bit shorter range.

I don't see myself regularly having both pets out (if it even lets you?) at once due to cost anyway.  Not to mention that the only real thing Phantom Army seems to have over Phantasm is indestructable pets (although they are shorter lived I think)

[Murgos]

The flaw in your logic is that having both pets is not a duplication of effort it is actually a multiplication of effectiveness.

If you read the boards with Phantom Army and Phantasm Illusion controllers can have 7 pets out.  I've seen Phantom Army in action they are VERY effective damage dealers (basically like grouping with a couple of blasters and a scrapper).

Your thinking they overlap and your wasting effort.  The truth is they combine to be more effective and you can solo more efficiently.

Maybe you can do effective CC without flash but it seems silly to me to use several powers to maintain a loose control of a group of baddies when you could just flash em once and be done with it.  I've seen flash in action and it too is very effective, so effective that the other CC abilites don't get used (except decieve to wear down a really tough boss) when it's available.

For someone claiming to want to reduce duplication of effort and waste you sure are going about it weird.

[CrashCat]

The thing is that nobody gets Illusion for holding enemies, anyway.  I can see getting it for pets, but I can also see getting it because you just want Defender powers but weak secondary blasts don't appeal to you.  Yeah, confusing is silly, but it's always fun to watch enemies beat up on each other.  Why Choking Cloud over Flash?  Slap me if I'm wrong, but the defender version might not have the dreaded ACC penalty, but even then a choking cloud of gas looks like more fun than that stupid noisy flash.  

Anyway, no need to be a pet class if you don't wanna.  If I really wanna hold off mobs I would go with Ice/Storm anyway.

[CmdrSlack]

Earth/storm is also great, but has a ton of holds, etc.

You didn't seem to want those, but that's really a "classic" controller build, IMO.

[kaid]

From the build you posted I would strongly recommend going defender as it seems those are the powers you are aiming for.

kaid

[kaid]

Remember Illusion control pets ARE their main crowd control. The more pets you have out the more damage you are doing and the more mobs are tied up.

To take a illusion controller and not take its holds nor its pets means you really should choose defender.

The rad holds are good but they come late and for a controller VERY late and since they are now your secondary pool they will work less effectivly than even a rad defender which still holds less well than a controllers holds.

If you have fun with it more power to you but I think you would probably enjoy a rad defender more.

If you took something like a rad/dark defender you would get all the rad powers you like plus aoe holds and a bunch of other good cc abilities and an easier time soloing if you ever chose to do so.

Kaid

[geldonyetich]

My only advice: Don't take Mind Control.   Loathesomely weak power set.   Gravity Control is better than Mind Control, but you'd probably better off going with any other Controller power set simply because they get a pet.

Pets are the closest thing you get to a damaging attack as a Controller.  Granted, Controller's damage is going to be abysmal regardless.   Oh sure, it starts out okay, but by the time you hit level 20 you're either extremely patient or forced to group in order to kill mobs in a reasonable amount of time.    That's my experience with my Mind Controller, your experience may be better if you have a pet power.

To take a illusion controller and not take its holds nor its pets means you really should choose defender.

Yes, I have to agree here.   The Illusionary Phantoms are a must unless you want a very slow climb to BR 32 where you can snag Phantasm.

If you have avoided taking both Blind and Flash why the hell did you take a Controller in the first place?   Either one is your bread and butter: it's what a Controller does.   I wish I could say this wasn't a big deal, but when you consider the actual damage tables built in the game are built in such a way as to gimp your ability to do anything else but control, you're really going to regret not having your primary control powers.

A quick check of the updates and forums indicates that not only has the Mind Controller's situation not improved, but all controllers are feeling a pinch when it comes to influencing and arch-villian battle.

[kaid]

In low to midlevel up to about 30 controllers can do pretty decent for themselves. The problem post 30 is that blasters start doing such silly damage that things just die so fast there is little or no point to control.

If  you take the pets you can at least get into groups as another damage dealer but sans pets and sans primary pool holds you will not enjoy the upper levels at all I fear.

I have tried most of the controller sets so here is a  lil run down.

Fire very good pool has combo of aoe disorients,  single  and aoe holds, aoe knock back down power, smoke (I will go into later) and probably the most damaging of the pet powers.

Smoke which fire has and its lil brother smoke grenades are vicious. This power pulls no agro it is a mob accuracy debuff +stealth. Thing is in this game all debuffs stack. So if you are willing to cast it two times or so before starting fights once you 6 slot the power mobs can rarely hit you.


Earth about the same types of control powers as fire has and a better style of aoe hold.

Ice seems to be a weaker version of earth concentrating more on slows.

Gravity this power pool has shapped up very well if you like controlling. Pretty decent damage power and good crowd control options. Their high level pet is very intersting. If you slot it right you can get 3 of them out at a time which is a solid line of repelling creatures so mobs cannot stay near them. They also shoot rapid fire for some pretty solid damage over time and also spam single target holds and roots. This power drastically increases the ammount of mobs that are rendered useless and they are currently the only controller who can single handedly hold a AV. They can do this because if they get their singularties spamming the av it allows the controller to stick their own hold which is stronger.

Illusion has less normal cc but their pet armies more than make up for it. The phantasmal army is a set of INVULNERABLE mobs that can do very high if somewhat phantasmal damage. Slotted up well they can really help you scythe through mobs. They also make darn good tankers in a pinch and are a heck of an opening attack on big packs of mobs.


Mind: If you could get some/more xp for a confused mobs kills these guys would own. Since you can't they are pretty meh. Not horrible and due to their decent damage attack power solo better early on than some of the elemental styles.


Rad is a good choice of secondary for controllers the more hold choices the better it is not replication it is making damn sure you have some power that holds mobs available at all times. If you cannot hold in some way shape or form at all times then you are going to have trouble being a controller. Most aoe holds have a LONG recharge time so the more you get the better it is.


Kaid

[Azhrarn]

To take a illusion controller and not take its holds nor its pets means you really should choose defender.

The rad holds are good but they come late and for a controller VERY late and since they are now your secondary pool they will work less effectivly than even a rad defender which still holds less well than a controllers holds.

If you have fun with it more power to you but I think you would probably enjoy a rad defender more.

Yeah, I was thinking of trying some form of Defender build for my next char.  I'll probably poke around and make another gimped char at that point. :)

[kaid]

If you like controlling and like the rad powers which are all pretty damn spiffy  I would recommend trying a rad/dark defender.

I think you would enjoy it dark blast has some very decent attacks and some good crowdcontrol powers.

I love controllers don't get me wrong they are pretty nifty but it really looks like you are liking the rad part more than the controller part and if that is the case go defender do what you want to do and do it well.


Kaid

[Sky]

I really enjoy my rad/rad defender. Nice debuffs and fast, accurate attacks (for middling to poor dmg). Reminds me of an EQ shaman. The radiation buff is very nice, too, but long refresh, I'm trying to slot it up to refresh fast enough to be almost constant...but the debuffs...they pwn imo.

[kaid]

Rad/rad works pretty well together. Rad primary has a bunch of debuffs that can increase the damage you do to targets by a good percentage up to 40% fully maxed. Rad blasts are fast and cheep to use and the combo of the buff plus the fast cheep blasts can lead to a pretty good efficient damage dealer.

I mainly suggested dark because it seems like they do like some crowd control powers and dark blast has alot of interesting strong cc side effects. It is also the only power pool outside controller primaries with an AOE root.


kaid