Continuing Haemish's thread on PC vs. Console
Admiral:
Darniaq summed it up best I think: The console may well win, but I don't care.
I have not owned a console since the Oddessy and Atari that immediately followed it. Actually, not quite true: I had a Vectrex as well, but that wasn't quite a console. Since the Apple II, I've been a purely PC gamer. Wizardry was what I grew up on (and actually I did quite a bit of development in UCSD Pascal at the time too).
The things I don't like about the console are:
*) Input device, especially at my "advanced" 30-something age
*) Lack of keyboard (although I bet this will change soon)
*) Low resolution (although this may change if you can get 1080p consoles)
What I really think will happen is that in 5-10 years or less we'll have a convergence:
*) PC video cards will output to HDTV in 1900x1080 resolution and we'll be quite happy with that
*) Video graphics cards will max out in speed such that there's no real urgent need for more (kind of like I'm still running a 1300 mHz Athlon even though I'm a compulsive upgrader, with my 5900 Ultra)
*) Computers will reduce in size to "console" size anyway
So, there won't be a dichotomy at that point.
Now that I have my new Mac (c.f. the old thread on Waterthread), I'm happy as a clam, because I can do my work (development) on one computer and use a totally separate computer for gaming, without the urge to buy an over powered laptop for doing both. (Note: Dungeon Siege, Baldur's Gate II, and a bunch of others run fine on this PowerBook, and MacSoft now loves a new customer.) In effect, I'm a console gamer who spent thousands on his console instead of hundreds, because the gaming machine is a dedicated gaming machine, just like an X-box.
There is one absolute, though: I'm not getting a console game system for my (imminently forthcoming) children. They can learn to type and interact socially if they want to do it while playing video games.
Cheers,
Doug
Matt:
Quote from: Admiral
*) Input device, especially at my "advanced" 30-something age
I too am at the age where I cannot be trusted, but I find controllers are simply better for some games than mouse+keyboard. I VASTLY prefer the dual-joystick config on modern controllers for an FPS to a keyboard and mouse. Yes, I know that 18 year olds for whom the ultimate in gaming is having fast reflexes will tell me how horrible the controller is for an FPS but I don't care. I find Halo's controls much more intuitive than the standard mouse+keyboard setup. Perhaps not as effective but I'm just out to have fun, not dominate.
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*) Lack of keyboard (although I bet this will change soon)
I have a keyboard for my beloved Dreamcast, which I bought to talk to people in Unreal Tournament.
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*) Low resolution (although this may change if you can get 1080p consoles)
Yeah, fair enough, though the handful of games running 780p or 1080i on my 50" widescreen DLP look awfully good. I've got Vice City for both the Xbox and PC, for instance, and there's no comparison: Xbox wins for visuals hands down, particularly given that my PC has a paltry 21" screen and it's not even a widescreen (yes, I realize that's my fault.)
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There is one absolute, though: I'm not getting a console game system for my (imminently forthcoming) children. They can learn to type and interact socially if they want to do it while playing video games.
Xbox Live, my man! I find people on Xbox live to be uncommonly well-behaved and mature compared to the general quality of person that jaunts about the net looking for community. Maybe I've had an uncommon experience, I dunno.
--matt
Argh Im A Pirate:
Deprive you children of a console? What kind of cruel punishment is that? You sir, are a very sick man.
Dark_MadMax:
PC is universal computer -"centre of digital universe" as some marketing slogan may say. Its not only games - its music ,books, movies , news ,forums , e-mail , and web pages .Its ISQ ,AIM , MIRC ,MSN messenger . Its MS office ,Turbo Tax and language dictionary .It is photoshop ,Auto CAD ,lightwave and 3D -studio. Its MSVS . NET ,Oracle and SQL . Its a tool to MOD and tweak games u like after all - if you want you can write your own.
-thats one of the strongest argument why I never ever had a slightest urge to buy a console . Buy a stupid box which only can play games?!?!? What will I do when I want to check latest news on subject I have interest with? What I do when I want find buy hardware for my next upgrade? Read new cars rating? flame on forums? Ask question on professional forums? If i want to do a spell check ,prepare my resume , or send e-mail to my friends? And you know the best part? -I can do it all at the same time ! No way I traded ability to finishing excel chart for my boss while listening to my favorite online radios station , having p2p runnign in the background downloading latest movie/album and when I am bored with "productive activity" I can load a quick match in CS or BF 1942 .
I want a system when I can finish my school project ,do some job ,send e-mails , download music ,movies , write my programs and of course games .Games I can mod , games with flexible interface , strong community and modding support , game I can play on -line with no hassle with thousands of servers readily available .
Hardware:
Now generic PC has better input interface - keyboard+mouse (+joystick if u like flight sims) its flexible and customizable . For f$ck sake how do imagine doing anything remotely complex with a gamepad? Even not complex but such basic thing as typing and chatting?!?
PC have more advanced tool too - such as teamspeak and track ir.
And hardest of hardware arguments : consoles simply suck. You can flame for hours how xbox is "superior" to PC , but 700 mhz celeron with 64 mb of ram and geforce 3 only deserves to be a router or browser bo ,but not a gaming platform. I am well aware that next generations of consoles is coming ,but as always next gen console will strruggle hard to be on par with current PC s , and fade into obsoletness during a year.
- small levels ,sucky textures ,primitive level design, non-existant AI - those are all attributes of console games, driven by consoles inadequate hardware.
And quality complex games require those resources -any innovation requires power. for ai ,for levels ,for physics - consoles simply dont have it .
Now to put the last nail in the consoless coffin :) games themselves :
Consoles are rich on sports sims , arcades and fightings. Now they have some FPS and RPGs too ( though rpg are mostly Jrpg types- such as Final Fantasy,or diablo like clones) . You know that some ppl dont give a f$ck about those ? Same way as some ppl dont want to play anything more complex than minesweeper some ppl want intersteing deep and complex games . And guess what? - consoles have practically non of them .Even midly intersting titles such as GTA are ported to PC .
Xboxers going haywire over Halo ,morrowind or Deus X2 only can provoke a gracious perplexity - such mediocre titles , getting big. - half a loaf is better than no bread, I guess.
Lets swing over some major titles which have no alternatives in console market :
Complex strategy games (Civilization,SimCity , master of magic ,Master of Orion,Europe Universalis )
Total war series ( Total war:Shogun, Medieval and now coming Rome) . Heroes of Might and magic series
Tactical combat simulations (x-com , jagged alliance 1 &2 , commandos ,Rainbow 6)
CRPGs - Dark Sun ,Betrayal at Krondor , TES:Daggerfall, Ultima, M&M (up to 7) , Fallout 1&2 , Baldur's Gate series , NWN and of Planescape:The torment ( simply the best story driven CRPG title ever produced) .
Space sims (x-wing,tie-fighter ,freespace)
and space freefrom ( from primitive elite to more complex elite2 and elite 3 first encounters to X-tension and x-tension 2)
Flight sims (starting with f29 retailator,Red baron,jane's sims, to such state of the art flight sims as Il-2 and Lock-on)
War games (dont know much here ,but consoles have NO wargames) .
RTS - from Dune 2 ,to C&C and Warcraft .
FPS - simply each and every revolutionary FPS is for PC. Starting from wolfensteing 3d , to doom 1 & 2 ,System Shock, quake ,half-life,thief ,System Shock 2, NOLF ,Deus EX and now upcoming STALKER, Far Cry ,Doom 3 ,half-life 2 . And countless of quality FPSs in between
(rise of the triad, darkforces, jedi knight,chrome etc...)
multiplayer online games - Starcraft ,Diablo , Counter-Strike,BF 1942 - you name it.
And of course waterhtread favourite's - MMORPGs.
What consoles have produced decent? -Splinter cell half assing thiefs ideas? GTA exploting '95 Quarantine ideas?
I think that consoles and PC games have different auditory. While consoles may "win"- by having bigger market share , it doesnt mean PC games will die. Typical console gamer is not enthusisast -he is the same gay who watche reality shows , eats burgers , watches blockbuster on sundays. or its a teenager who cant handle anything more comples that wrestling and tony hawk skater.
While PC gamers are often "geeks" who create an enourmous community ( thanks to the fact we can do that all on the same PC :) ).
Many Joes underestimate modding communities ,stating that they never produce anything good ( stating CS as exclusion supporting rule) . -problem in so far was that games are very complex software projects whihc require many-man hours and only a few years community simply lacked infrastracture to develop quality products. Also art and content usually need some financial investement. Nevertheless there are quality titles such as Space Empires 4 ,Avernum (ex exlie) Dominions,roguelikes ( adom) etc. basically made by one man and supported by communites. Some very good projects in development (e.g. vegastrike.net)
-Developing becomes easier , quality 3d/physics open source engine already exist , sourceforge provides some good infrastracture for developing enthusiast projects which whill only lead to more quality products. - Of course progress is slower than in commercial areas (as basically ppl wrok "at will" and in their free time) , but noticeable nevertheless.
PC gaming is far from dead. It may become "niche" . But there will be always enough "geeks" to supoprt it .
Niche is not bad - most really quality products are niche (books, movies ,music) - as opposed to popular ("blockbuster","music hit","bestseller") . - Popularity is summ of aggressive marketg+lowest common denominator. It makes money true -but often its only a cow dung in flashy box designed for 5 minute attention span, 80 IQ Joe Blob - THE consumer.
Rasix:
Slowly step away from the computer.
Take a deep breath.
And step into an oncoming bus.
Thank you.
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