SOE to Publish Vanguard

[Falconeer]

I got a beta invite two weeks ago and just deleted the email, it wasn't even worth the trouble when the gameworld and characters generate zero excitement.

Remember: whenever something like this should happen in the future, hit "forward to ---> falconeer@libero.it"

[Rasix]

McQuaid reads f13 regularly. He won't post, and he's declined repeated requests for interviews from me over the years.

Did you ever promise to not refer to him as a pigfucker for the whole interview? 

I thought pigfucker was reserved for Smedly.  Funny aside (ok, maybe only funny to me), Brenlo introduced himself as Smedly at AGC, and I jumped.  I had to go through a mental catalog and remember if I ever called him a pigfucker.  Then I remembered the avatar with the flashing red eyes and determined there was no way that could be Smed.

[HaemishM]

You're welcome. That avatar has served us all well.

EDIT: Though I think you are right, Smedley was the pigfucker. McQuaid was just douchebag. Maybe Generalissimo Douchebag.

[shiznitz]

The Fae race (EQ2's new race with EoF expansion coming 11/14) is amazing and the Faydwer zones are stunning. The amount of character variation on the Fae is impressive. One does not have to be a sparkling, pretty thing. The wings* have many shapes and almost infinite color variations. I am not in the beta for EoF but I have seen lots of incredible screens from some who are. This expansion pushes EQ2 further from the "realistic" style of the original zones. This is a good thing.

* Wings give the Fae a slowfall ability, but not true flight. This slowfall may or may not have a "stamina" bar. This is still being tweaked.

[Soln]

The Fae race (EQ2's new race with EoF expansion coming 11/14) is amazing and the Faydwer zones are stunning. The amount of character variation on the Fae is impressive. One does not have to be a sparkling, pretty thing. The wings* have many shapes and almost infinite color variations. I am not in the beta for EoF but I have seen lots of incredible screens from some who are. This expansion pushes EQ2 further from the "realistic" style of the original zones. This is a good thing.

* Wings give the Fae a slowfall ability, but not true flight. This slowfall may or may not have a "stamina" bar. This is still being tweaked.

and what level or constraint is there to see this paid-for content?  I'm still kicking myself for buying KoS where you need to be 50+ to actually get to the zone.  At least in SWG you can still visit the high end expansions and see stuff.

[Falconeer]

Surprisingly the Echoes of Faydwer expansion will have 20 new zones covering ALL levels. The idea behind it is to allow players to reroll as faes (the new race) and play from level 1 up to 70 in completely new zones, like playing a "new game".

So basically for once is true the opposite of the usual: the enjoy Echoes of Faydwer to its fullest you have to be level 1. Being higher level means losing all the new stuff, quests and places meant for levels lower than your.

[Engels]

Is there a huge elephant in the living room noone dares to talk about here? F'in fairies? That can't even motherf'in fly?! Prancing about? Are you people for bloody real?!

[Falconeer]

They "hover" but can't really fly around. Yeah that sounds between odd and lame to me but not more than flying mounts only able to fly in the "new continent". What? Air is heavier in the old continent so that only trained railroad-like griffons are able to fly?

And about the fairie theme, there's people out there that loves Yogurting. (oh right, I meant me)

[Falconeer]

Anyway, if anyone was wondering why the FoH poll had a sudden jump in Yes votes, it's because Brad started a thread about it on the Vanguard forums and all-but-told people to go spam yes votes on it (as the FoH board allows unregistered people to vote in polls).

That's pathetic and that's exactly what gives Brad a bad name. :(

[WindupAtheist]

They "hover" but can't really fly around. Yeah that sounds between odd and lame to me but not more than flying mounts only able to fly in the "new continent". What? Air is heavier in the old continent so that only trained railroad-like griffons are able to fly?

And about the fairie theme, there's people out there that loves Yogurting. (oh right, I meant me)

No, trust me, pixies sound lamer than flying mounts that only work in certain places.  Flying mounts that only work in certain places sound like awesomeness with some unfortunate constraints.  Pixies just sound like wall-to-wall faggotry.

[tazelbain]

No worse than the thong-elves and the pedo-gnomes.

[Yegolev]

Faeries worked so well in Horizons, about time they flitted into another game.  Now EQ2 just needs gimpy playable dragons and aggressive resource nodes.

[Signe]

I imagine WUA as a really, really fat fairy whose tummy drags the ground and sweat pours from his face as he tries to fly.  I would name him Fat Fairy and I would laugh and laugh and laugh! But in a nice way. 


That's how I see him.

[WindupAtheist]

I still see you as a disembodied pair of feet pressing keys with your toes, kinda like Thing in those Addams Family movies.

[Signe]

You mean like this:


I dont' mind.   

[WindupAtheist]

Only if you're nice.  If you pick on me, you have to be:

[Tale]

That's gotta be the EQ2 group of the future: Margrim the Wizard, Haggard the Warrior, Elenora the Cleric, Lothirian the Ranger, and ...

[Stephen Zepp]

Can I post a text file output of the directory structure / file sizes or is that too much?

I was flipping through the Shaders folder and there's a 180 meg file dealing with speedtree. Rest of the shaders are pretty small, 5-10 megs. Then there are about half a dozen that are 100+ megs with the speedtree one being the biggest.

Most data is contained in the models I THINK, I skimmed it last night but i couldn't really recognize the file types. I'd guess it's a container for the model+some textures for it combined.

You can't really compress the graphics that much, as they need to be frequently accessed, or so I'd assume.

You are freaking kidding me....5-10 MEG for shaders?

Code:

//*****************************************************************************
// Lightmap / cubemap shader
//*****************************************************************************
#define IN_HLSL
#include "shdrConsts.h"

//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Constants
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
struct Appdata
{
	float4 position   : POSITION;
	float4 normal     : NORMAL;
	float4 baseTex    : TEXCOORD0;
	float4 lmTex      : TEXCOORD1;
	float3 T          : TEXCOORD2;
	float3 B          : TEXCOORD3;
	float3 N          : TEXCOORD4;
};


struct Conn
{
   float4 HPOS             : POSITION;
	float4 TEX0             : TEXCOORD0;
	float4 tangentToCube0   : TEXCOORD1;
	float4 tangentToCube1   : TEXCOORD2;
	float4 tangentToCube2   : TEXCOORD3;
};



//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Main
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conn main( Appdata In, 
           uniform float4x4 modelview : register(VC_WORLD_PROJ),
           uniform float3x3 cubeTrans : register(VC_CUBE_TRANS),
           uniform float4  cubeEyePos : register(VC_CUBE_EYE_POS)
)
{
   Conn Out;

   Out.HPOS = mul(modelview, In.position);
   Out.TEX0 = In.baseTex;

   
	float3x3 objToTangentSpace;
	objToTangentSpace[0] = In.T;
	objToTangentSpace[1] = In.B;
	objToTangentSpace[2] = In.N;
   
   
   Out.tangentToCube0.xyz = mul( objToTangentSpace, cubeTrans[0].xyz );
   Out.tangentToCube1.xyz = mul( objToTangentSpace, cubeTrans[1].xyz );
   Out.tangentToCube2.xyz = mul( objToTangentSpace, cubeTrans[2].xyz );
   
   float3 pos = mul( cubeTrans, In.position ).xyz;
   float3 eye = cubeEyePos.xyz - pos;
   normalize( eye );

   Out.tangentToCube0.w = eye.x;
   Out.tangentToCube1.w = eye.y;
   Out.tangentToCube2.w = eye.z;

   return Out;
}

That's a shader---an actual shader that does both lightmapping and bumpmapping. I sure as hell hope you are wrong and that they aren't -really- shaders taking up 5-10 meg, because that's totally crapstastic, if true.

Consider that your shaders need to be loaded up onto your video card, and every byte takes away from the textures up there...

Follow on edit:

(sorry for self-promotion here, but I just had to throw up some comparison stuff)

Wow...I really can't get over how bad those screenshots really looked. For comparison, here is a link that shows off some non-shader images of Torque with some part-time artist work:

Tim Aste blog about upcoming Torque 1.5

And for those that like movies done in low res software capture that still look better than those EQ2 screenshots, here are some mini-demos of some technology that isn't even out of alpha yet:

Proper use of Shaders

Self Shadowing, anyone?

[Azazel]

Make them spawn much quicker but over a much wider area. That increases the chance of Joe Newb running into one randomly and lessens the chance of Joe Hardcore camping it.

EQ tried this in one of the Kunark zones.  I forget the name now, but people still found the spawn cycle and camped it.

Fuck.. they even camped the AC in South Ro, which had NO spawn cycle.  Just kill everything until it pops, and make sure you have a tracker.

People who want to camp, will camp.  Trying to beat a player's tenacity through any kind of crazy mechanics is doomed to failure.  No matter how many HP, no matter how long the spawn, no matter how irregular the pattern, SOMEONE will kill/ time/ camp it.

Heh, we used to go to South Ro to camp the AC. We got it once or twice. I got it once by accident passing through the by-then-empty zone. And I camped Stormfeather in Iceclad as well, eventually got him. Twice.

[Azazel]

I like how the FoH people are basically just flaming Brad and the game now.  He posts a new batch of screenshots and the very next post is something like "I think LOL about sums those up."  Speaking of screenshots...

Why does a brand new game with a twenty or thirty gig install look this shitty?

Damn, the world there looks like EQ1 circa the expansions from about 2 years ago.

The character models look like DAoC when I briefly played it. At release.

[Yegolev]

I hope Tim soon overcomes whatever grief had stricken him when that photo was taken.  Also, self-shadowing is nice.  Too bad that McQuaid was right all along, but you can't see that now.  He's been taking revisionist lessons from Lucas.

[Sky]

Heh, we used to go to South Ro to camp the AC. We got it once or twice. I got it once by accident passing through the by-then-empty zone. And I camped Stormfeather in Iceclad as well, eventually got him. Twice.

I got so tired of trying to get my jboot via the SRo cyclops from all the uberguildcamps and kill-stealing, I finally set up shop in Ocean of Tears. I was running rotation with a couple guys, it reminded my of that old cartoon with the sheepdog punching the timeclock. At least it was a cool island zone with soothing atmosphere and an easily timed spawn, even if the AC was rare as hell. I read a book and also grabbed a few oracle robes for friends while I was down there.

Man that game sucked.

[shiznitz]

Heh, we used to go to South Ro to camp the AC. We got it once or twice. I got it once by accident passing through the by-then-empty zone. And I camped Stormfeather in Iceclad as well, eventually got him. Twice.

I got so tired of trying to get my jboot via the SRo cyclops from all the uberguildcamps and kill-stealing, I finally set up shop in Ocean of Tears. I was running rotation with a couple guys, it reminded my of that old cartoon with the sheepdog punching the timeclock. At least it was a cool island zone with soothing atmosphere and an easily timed spawn, even if the AC was rare as hell. I read a book and also grabbed a few oracle robes for friends while I was down there.

Man that game sucked.

You may have disliked the game for other reasons, but in this case you made the game suck all by yourself.

[HaemishM]

The game really didn't need that much help.

[Sky]

Well, I guess I technically didn't /need/ jboots. Would surely have made soloing a hell of a lot tougher, and I would have had many more deaths. As it was, I wasn't able to get jboots until I was level 51 or so and ended up quitting at level 54.

[Engels]

I made it through 4 years of EQ without having to revert to this level of camping. I had toons level 68, 58, 54, etc. To be frank, I sometimes went to SRo and OOT for various quest, pass throughs, or whatever. When I saw someone was explicitly camping the Cyclopse, they went immediately to my ignore list. Sometimes it was embarassing, when as a guest on a raid for some uber cattass guild, to have most of the guild on ignore, including the raid coordinator. I quietly excused myself and got my CoD flag another day.

[LC]

Can I post a text file output of the directory structure / file sizes or is that too much?

I was flipping through the Shaders folder and there's a 180 meg file dealing with speedtree. Rest of the shaders are pretty small, 5-10 megs. Then there are about half a dozen that are 100+ megs with the speedtree one being the biggest.

Most data is contained in the models I THINK, I skimmed it last night but i couldn't really recognize the file types. I'd guess it's a container for the model+some textures for it combined.

You can't really compress the graphics that much, as they need to be frequently accessed, or so I'd assume.

You are freaking kidding me....5-10 MEG for shaders?

I finally found someone to send me that file list. (Since that asshole nija is never on irc anymore.) He wasn't kidding about the shaders or the client size.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WYXGMTC7

[Stephen Zepp]

Can I post a text file output of the directory structure / file sizes or is that too much?

I was flipping through the Shaders folder and there's a 180 meg file dealing with speedtree. Rest of the shaders are pretty small, 5-10 megs. Then there are about half a dozen that are 100+ megs with the speedtree one being the biggest.

Most data is contained in the models I THINK, I skimmed it last night but i couldn't really recognize the file types. I'd guess it's a container for the model+some textures for it combined.

You can't really compress the graphics that much, as they need to be frequently accessed, or so I'd assume.

You are freaking kidding me....5-10 MEG for shaders?

I finally found someone to send me that file list. (Since that asshole nija is never on irc anymore.) He wasn't kidding about the shaders or the client size.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WYXGMTC7

Those aren't shaders--they are textures used by shaders.

They simply have a very poor naming convention.

I did take a good look at the file structures, and assuming no obfuscation, most of what you see actually looks at least somewhat in line for what Unreal Engine produces. There are a couple of animation files that are hugely out of whack size wise, which unsually indicates an improper export, as well as some meshes that are simply huge, but if they are bypassing advanced shader techniques and simply pushing tons of polys for detailed models, then I could see meshes of that size.

Otherwise, it's not that bad, and the executable file set (exe plus dll's) isn't out of line at all for Unreal Engine, or other engines for that matter.

[Trippy]

Well, I guess I technically didn't /need/ jboots. Would surely have made soloing a hell of a lot tougher, and I would have had many more deaths. As it was, I wasn't able to get jboots until I was level 51 or so and ended up quitting at level 54.

sow plz

[Venkman]

I just did forum sigs for SoW pots (or the plat to buy stacks of them).

But that was before I played my Bard :)

As to camping, the only time I ever did that was for parts of the Bard epic (which I never finished) and that +WIS offhand book from High Keep. I bore too quickly for camps and generally just ended up preferring to do without. And that has followed me through every single MMO I play.

I've got some tolerance for pain, but it's definitely higher on the social side of things than on the game mechanic. There's too many other things to do than waste obsurb amounts of time waiting for pellets. Probably the reason I could never create a character worth selling : :mrgreen:

[Phred]

I just did forum sigs for SoW pots (or the plat to buy stacks of them).

But that was before I played my Bard :)

As to camping, the only time I ever did that was for parts of the Bard epic (which I never finished) and that +WIS offhand book from High Keep. I bore too quickly for camps and generally just ended up preferring to do without. And that has followed me through every single MMO I play.

I've got some tolerance for pain, but it's definitely higher on the social side of things than on the game mechanic. There's too many other things to do than waste obsurb amounts of time waiting for pellets. Probably the reason I could never create a character worth selling : :mrgreen:

I helped other people to camp things, just for the social aspect, but rarely camped anything myself. I did the burgurgle step on the cleric epic by watching a movie and setting a timer to go off every 35 min to kill the placeholder. I don't really view that as camping because I wasn't even watching the screen except for a couple of minutes every half hour. (Funny to think if I did that in Wow I'd risk a ban)

[Der Helm]

(Funny to think if I did that in Wow I'd risk a ban)

Huh ?

[LC]

(Funny to think if I did that in Wow I'd risk a ban)

Huh ?

Wow disconnects you for being idle (3 minutes i think) too long.

Circumvention = Ban

[Falconeer]

No, trust me, pixies sound lamer than flying mounts that only work in certain places.  Flying mounts that only work in certain places sound like awesomeness with some unfortunate constraints.  Pixies just sound like wall-to-wall faggotry.

That means that Vanguard (all-over-the-world flying mounts) will be awesomeness without constraints?

[Yoshimaru]

No, trust me, pixies sound lamer than flying mounts that only work in certain places.  Flying mounts that only work in certain places sound like awesomeness with some unfortunate constraints.  Pixies just sound like wall-to-wall faggotry.

That means that Vanguard (all-over-the-world flying mounts) will be awesomeness without constraints?

You could apply that to Dark and Light as wel...