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Merusk
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Reply #35 on: May 05, 2006, 01:45:44 PM

Ah, but even in that they're too slow.  The casual folks would like more breadth (more options than running MC for 3 months, then BWL/AQ for 3 months, then this new instance) to the 60 content, while the hardcores want more depth. (more upgrades, longer progression than 2.5 raid zones.)

Blizz is so slow about content they're satisfying /neither/ contingent at this point.  This, I suspect, is part of the reason they've upped the loot on the low end while at the same time halving party sizes.  It will take toons a LOT longer (More than double, as while party sizes were halved, the number of healers are still the chokepoint.) to get thier blue sets or equivalent now than it did a year ago.   This slows everyone down.

 Also , Bliz knows they're slow, and they're working on making PvP more attractive by balancing around it to counter this.  If everyone's pvping, they don't have to generate any kind of PvE content  at a quick pace.  If you're PvPing the players are the content, and all you have to do is provide more arenas for it. A much better solution for them than tossing out their processes and heading down the SOE path of 'just shovel it out the door, we'll fix it later.'

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Morat20
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Reply #36 on: May 05, 2006, 01:53:02 PM

I'd be the last to say they're perfect -- but they've done a hell of a lot better than most games out there in trying to time the content against the median player.
HaemishM
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Reply #37 on: May 05, 2006, 06:23:20 PM

That's why I find it so funny that some devs spend so much time there. It'd be like inviting your most dedicated fans, the ones who're willing to pay over double the monthly fee, to be your first testers on a sequel you're specifically looking to target casual players with. Oh, wait...

It's more like inviting all your favorite stalkers over for dinner every night.

I can't wait until the Vanguard devs seek out the restraining order.

El Gallo
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Reply #38 on: May 05, 2006, 06:32:48 PM

For something relevant both to the h8 Vanguard thread and the h8 FoH tangent, I present....

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/22202-soe-publish-vanguard.html

TL;DR: Microsoft is dumping Sigil and they may get picked up by...drumroll...SoE.  First page of FoH posters laughing at VG fanbois.

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
Azazel
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Reply #39 on: May 05, 2006, 06:38:08 PM

linky no worky


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El Gallo
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Reply #40 on: May 05, 2006, 06:39:49 PM

FoH appears to be in the shitter atm.  Here's the link to the VG forum http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51136


Quote
May 5, 2006 – Carlsbad & San Diego, CA – Sigil Games Online and Sony Online Entertainment LLC (SOE), a global leader in the online games industry, today announced that Sigil is working with Microsoft Game Studios on an arrangement to acquire the rights to its highly anticipated massively multiplayer online (MMO) game, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. These efforts have resulted in a tentative agreement for Vanguard to be co-published by both Sigil Games Online and SOE. All three companies will be showing the game at the upcoming Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) as they work closely together for a successful transition. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is scheduled to launch this winter.

“As the development process is ongoing and constantly shifting, it became clear that MGS and Sigil had varying visions and direction for the title’s development,” said Brad McQuaid, CEO of Sigil Games Online. “In the best interest of Vanguard, it was decided that we would buy back the publishing rights from Microsoft.”

As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOE’s Station Access™ subscription plan. Station Access allows players to enjoy all of SOE’s MMO titles for one low monthly price.

“We are very excited to be working with so many old friends at Sigil,” said John Smedley, president, Sony Online Entertainment. “Vanguard looks beautiful and has an incredibly rich game world. It’s the type of game that will appeal directly to SOE’s hundreds of thousands of players and should fit in perfectly with the current line-up of games available in Station Access.”

”This decision was made mutually by Sigil and Microsoft, in the best interest of the long-term goals for the title,” said Phil Spencer, General Manager at Microsoft Game Studios. “As a key Windows development partner, we will continue to work with Sigil to ensure Vanguard’s ongoing success.”

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is the next generation of massively multiplayer online games. The journey takes place in the fantasy setting of Telon, a vast and ancient world of magic, intrigue and adventure. Facing the challenges of a war torn world, the diverse people here struggle to rebuild their once great civilizations. A fragile alliance has been struck, with the lands set upon by invading forces, the races must band together to survive.

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is currently in a closed beta phase. The game will remain available via Fileplanet for existing beta testers during the transition to SOE. New information will be sent out to testers as the changeover occurs.

For more information about Vanguard: Saga of Heroes please visit www.vanguardsoh.com.

About Sigil Games Online
Based in Carlsbad, California, Sigil Games Online is a studio dedicated to creating massively multiplayer online (MMO) games. Founded in 2002 by Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler, key figures in the development of award-winning EverQuest, the company plans to be a driving force in the continued evolution of this unique genre. Sigil Games Online is comprised of an all-star team of experienced developers with an impressive pedigree of commercially successful and critically acclaimed online games. For more information, visit www.sigilgames.com.

About Sony Online Entertainment
Sony Online Entertainment LLC (SOE) is a recognized worldwide leader in massively multiplayer online games, with hundreds of thousands of subscribers around the globe. SOE creates, develops and provides compelling entertainment for the personal computer, online, game console and wireless markets. Known for its blockbuster franchises and hit titles including EverQuest®, EverQuest® II, Champions of Norrath®, Untold Legends™, and PlanetSide®,as well as for developing Star Wars Galaxies™, SOE continues to redefine the business of online gaming and the creation of active player communities while introducing new genres on various entertainment platforms. Headquartered in San Diego, CA, with additional development studios in Austin, TX, Seattle, WA, and Taiwan, SOE has an array of cutting-edge games in development. SOE is owned by Sony Pictures Digital and Sony Computer Entertainment America.

SOE, the SOE logo, EverQuest and PlanetSide are registered trademarks of Sony Online Entertainment LLC. Untold Legends is a trademark of Sony Online Entertainment LLC. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and Sigil Games Online are trademarks of Sigil Games Online, Inc. (registration pending). All other trademarks and trade names are properties of their respective owners.

Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder
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Miasma
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Reply #41 on: May 05, 2006, 06:45:04 PM

Who said you can't go home again?

Edit: Maybe this is why they bumped the Station Pass price.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2006, 06:47:03 PM by Miasma »
Azazel
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Reply #42 on: May 05, 2006, 06:53:49 PM

That's exactly what I thought when I read it...

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dusematic
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Reply #43 on: May 05, 2006, 06:55:34 PM

I just thought how delicious the Vanguard forums would be, and I was right!  MMMMMMMMM, savory despair.
schild
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Reply #44 on: May 05, 2006, 07:14:21 PM

Wtf?
Miasma
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Reply #45 on: May 05, 2006, 07:40:12 PM

I just thought how delicious the Vanguard forums would be, and I was right!  MMMMMMMMM, savory despair.
I can't access their site right now, I keep getting browser timeouts.  I think I made it through once.  That's what happens when tens of thousands of broken hearted fans try to hit the forums at the same time.  And since they are grind loving Vanguard fanbois you know those bastards will be patiently sitting in front of the computer clicking the refresh button again and again for hours.
Merusk
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Reply #46 on: May 05, 2006, 07:51:28 PM

They're all spinning it as a positive on the FOH forum.  "This just shows they won't release until it's ready!!1!"  "They weren't going to let MSG push them around and change THE VISION!!"   Smed and McQUaid showed up in the post as well.  It's amusing on many levels.

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Azazel
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Reply #47 on: May 05, 2006, 07:58:19 PM

I love it!

Quote
Darinford
Senior Member
Join Date: 2006 Feb Re: Vanguard published By SoE?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOE botched SWG and is catering heavily to casual gamers. I seriously do not approve of this.



Interesting for the next round of consoles though. Obviously MS doesnt value the idea of VG on the 360 that much. It'd now likely be a PS3 exclusive, if it's even possible to run on a console...


God Damn, there's some gold here, Jerry.

Quote
Mutter
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Join Date: 2006 Apr Re: Vanguard published By SoE?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ummmm no!!! Microsoft doesnt just back out of a game that can do as well or better than WoW. So something is up or something big happened for a company to give up on this title.

And this, even better. These guys have some serious emotional problems.

Quote
scorpion
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Join Date: 2005 Aug
  Re: Vanguard published By SoE?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sony must die... i was going to buy a high def TV from them... they can screw off now... i mean serusly. they want to screw me here they have lsot a customer for life. i am personally boycotting all of there products.
 

 Heartbreak

« Last Edit: May 05, 2006, 08:06:50 PM by Azazel »

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dusematic
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Reply #48 on: May 05, 2006, 08:28:52 PM

It's like gay people.  You know more of them are out there than are letting on.  The internet proves there are so many disturbed living among us, people who can barely knuckle down and pull it together to pass themselves off as legitimate people in public.
Miasma
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Reply #49 on: May 05, 2006, 08:30:28 PM

Quote from: Brad McQuaid
Microsoft was TOTALLY cool with this. They are still very happy about Vanguard and looking forward to it bolstering their Windows platform. Vanguard will be an XP game, but also a Vista game, offering both 32 bit and 64 bit clients. We will continue to work closely with them and with Vista's focus on entertainment/games/graphics, as well as online, Vanguard is key.
Yes, his little computer game is going to make or break Microsoft.  Delusions of grandeur.
Trippy
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Reply #50 on: May 05, 2006, 08:47:10 PM

I'm puzzled by this. Did somebody (not SOE) just drop a bunch of money onto Sigil's lap? If not and if Sigil already had the money to buy back their IP why did they sell it to Microsoft in the first place? It would seem there's some mysterious fourth party here or else Sony is so desparate to compete with Blizzard that they basically just gave Sigil a bunch of money with no strings attached.

Edit: here's a search link to see all of Brad's posts on the Vanguard forums:

http://vanguardsoh.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=7
« Last Edit: May 05, 2006, 08:51:20 PM by Trippy »
Miasma
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Reply #51 on: May 05, 2006, 08:50:53 PM

He said they raised the money to buy back the rights.  He didn't say from who but he did say it wasn't from SoE.
Trippy
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Reply #52 on: May 05, 2006, 08:53:40 PM

He said they raised the money to buy back the rights.  He didn't say from who but he did say it wasn't from SoE.
Ah okay that's what I figured. Then he's basically beholden to that party instead of Microsoft or SOE.
dusematic
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Reply #53 on: May 05, 2006, 09:02:56 PM

I'm puzzled by this. Did somebody (not SOE) just drop a bunch of money onto Sigil's lap? If not and if Sigil already had the money to buy back their IP why did they sell it to Microsoft in the first place? It would seem there's some mysterious fourth party here or else Sony is so desparate to compete with Blizzard that they basically just gave Sigil a bunch of money with no strings attached.

Edit: here's a search link to see all of Brad's posts on the Vanguard forums:

http://vanguardsoh.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=7


Clearly MS dumped them because A)  Sigil wasn't cooperating with the program, or B) the game sucks.
Azazel
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Reply #54 on: May 05, 2006, 09:22:20 PM

c) All of the above?

The leaked NDA stuff coming from former-fanboi betatestes isn't exactly inspiring, after all....

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dusematic
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Reply #55 on: May 05, 2006, 09:30:00 PM

Sorry, I'm not good with multiple choice.
Margalis
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Reply #56 on: May 06, 2006, 12:08:41 AM

To be fair, the games that Microsoft have had their hands in have often turned out worse because of MS interference.

Both Impossible Creatures and AC2 are good examples of this. Both used MS technology that didn't really work, because they were owned by MS. Impossible Creatures had major networking issues as did AC2 with the chat server, IIRC both of which used some shitty MS APIs like DirectPlay or something lame like that.

But anyway these Vanguard guys seem like total amateurs. I love the stupid musings they have on screenshots, like it's some big philisophical debate. "Hmmm...choosing what screens to show is really a difficult challenge, blah blah blah blah blah..."

Show screenshots that make your game look kick-ass. It really isn't that difficult. Screenshots of an empty field? No.

I like how there are a lot of games that are supposed to release this year that still don't have any shots of UI, no idea what will ship "at release" at what won't, etc etc.

It's like if you go to the forums of one the amateur game-creation sites and 95% of the people there have no clue whatsoever. Apparently these people have now graduated and gotten real jobs.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Trippy
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Reply #57 on: May 06, 2006, 12:47:11 AM

To be fair, the games that Microsoft have had their hands in have often turned out worse because of MS interference.

Both Impossible Creatures and AC2 are good examples of this. Both used MS technology that didn't really work, because they were owned by MS. Impossible Creatures had major networking issues as did AC2 with the chat server, IIRC both of which used some shitty MS APIs like DirectPlay or something lame like that.
Yes, Microsoft was seemingly duking it out with EA for the title of "Worst MMOG Publisher" among the major video game publishers -- they just don't seem to get it. So from Sigil's perspective this is a huge improvement unless their unnamed benefactor suddenly decides they want to get involved with the game's design. I find the anti-SOE sentiment on the Vanguard forum interesting, though. Do these people not remember what EQ was like when Verant was in charge of the design?
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Reply #58 on: May 06, 2006, 12:53:48 AM

Do these people not remember what EQ was like when Verant was in charge of the design?
Yes, and they liked it. *shudder* Brad=Mesiah to them.

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Reply #59 on: May 06, 2006, 01:16:08 AM

LOL. It's been a great week for MMOG news :)
Azazel
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Reply #60 on: May 06, 2006, 01:58:24 AM

They remember how amazing EQ seemed when they first started playing their very first MMOG. Then by the time that Verant got consumed by SOE they were gettign disenchanted. You know how it is, you look back at old stuff you went through and laugh about it later. I remember lists for frenzy in LGuk, and can laugh about it now and even look back at it semi-fondly in that "ahh, remember when we.." way, but no way in fuck do I want to relive that.

It's the same reason I won't commit to a "proper" guild in WoW despite knowing I could easily be uber if I gave enough of a shit. I'm not willing to put that time in again. These guys are desperate for a game they have to dedicate their lives to.

Also, they like grinding, timesinks and being sodomised by large objects without lube.


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Simond
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Reply #61 on: May 06, 2006, 02:06:17 AM

Quote
“As the development process is ongoing and constantly shifting, it became clear that MGS and Sigil had varying visions and direction for the title’s development,” said Brad McQuaid, CEO of Sigil Games Online. “In the best interest of Vanguard, it was decided that we would buy back the publishing rights from Microsoft.”

Microsoft: Make the game more like WoW.
Sigil: No.
MS: OK then, either you buy back the publishing rights and find your own publisher, or you're all fired and we'll put our own team onto developing Vanguard.

Later...

*Phone rings"
"Hello, John Smedley speaking"
"Hey John, it's Brad...."

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Krakrok
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Reply #62 on: May 06, 2006, 11:58:58 AM


The ads in this thread are for curing bad breath. Even Google gets a bad taste in it's mouth when it thinks about Vanguard?
sarius
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Reply #63 on: May 07, 2006, 07:44:14 PM


The ads in this thread are for curing bad breath. Even Google gets a bad taste in it's mouth when it thinks about Vanguard?

It couldn't be as bad as Dark and Light turned out to be.  But, this is bad news, either way.  I'm sure SOE will own them within the year and if there was anything good remotely inherent to the build, destroy it.  :)

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Chenghiz
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Reply #64 on: May 08, 2006, 03:05:17 PM

A friend of mine claims that the installer isn't actually 16 GB. Can anyone confirm that claim?
HRose
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Reply #65 on: May 08, 2006, 04:31:27 PM

I've read the current install file is 5gb. I don't know if it's bigger once installed.

Anyway, what the fuck they put in 5gb? EQ2 is less than 6Gb after two expansion and with super high res textures noone can use. Half of that is about voice files.

Vanguard is supposed to use the Unreal engine, I really don't know what the hell they did with it. Btw, it seems that currently the game doesn't even run on an nvidia video card.

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Tale
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Reply #66 on: May 08, 2006, 05:00:33 PM

A friend of mine claims that the installer isn't actually 16 GB. Can anyone confirm that claim?

I haven't seen anyone claim that the installer is 16Gb. The claims I've seen are that the installation (once it's on your hard drive) takes up 15-20Gb. That's pretty big.

Quote
Btw, it seems that currently the game doesn't even run on an nvidia video card.

According to NDA-breaking posts elsewhere (FoH) that's not true. It runs on nVidia cards, just worse than on ATI cards.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 05:05:42 PM by Tale »
Megrim
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Reply #67 on: May 08, 2006, 05:47:33 PM

I've read the current install file is 5gb. I don't know if it's bigger once installed.

Anyway, what the fuck they put in 5gb? EQ2 is less than 6Gb after two expansion and with super high res textures noone can use. Half of that is about voice files.

Vanguard is supposed to use the Unreal engine, I really don't know what the hell they did with it. Btw, it seems that currently the game doesn't even run on an nvidia video card.


Well, a friend of mine recently complained that his WoW directory was around 7gigs in size.

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Merusk
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Reply #68 on: May 08, 2006, 06:41:32 PM

How many add-ons, screenshots does that include? I've got 10 gigs, but that includes almost two years worth of screenshots (b3.9 gb) the Interface folder, (41.9mb), patch .exe files (that don't delete unless you delete them yourself.) and the WoW Test directory, which is a gig and a half on its own.

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HaemishM
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Reply #69 on: May 09, 2006, 12:44:23 PM


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