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Author Topic: DDO Head Start - Starts  (Read 40237 times)
Arthur_Parker
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on: February 24, 2006, 05:22:02 AM

Website redesigned www.ddo.com

http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?&postid=20341#post20341

Quote
Welcome to the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE™: Stormreach™ Head Start Event! You are among the first to challenge the mysteries of Xen'drik. Be sure to visit the official DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE™: Stormreach™ web site for the latest game news! Spend some time with the Compendium, to familiarize yourself with your skills, feats and spells! Join the discussion with your fellow players on the official forums!

Thank you for playing DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE™: Stormreach™! Remind your fellow adventurers – there is still time to preorder and join the Head Start Event!

Server numbers reduced to 14, the 2 removed server's have been changed to become warm spinups.

Gamergod covered the recent news on the target special offer that caused a 26 page storm in a teacup on the old ddo forums.

Not much else happening as yet, anyone playing?
Wasted
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Reply #1 on: February 24, 2006, 05:30:33 AM

Downloading the head start client now.  I'm sure there are reasons they cant just patch up the beta client I got when I preordered.
Trippy
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Posts: 20245


Reply #2 on: February 24, 2006, 05:32:43 AM

Gamergod covered the recent news on the target special offer that caused a 26 page storm in a teacup on the old ddo forums.
Well given that players characters have the lung capacity of emphysema sufferers I can understand why some people might be upset. It's been said here before but giving items/stuff that have gameplay benefits to pre-order/beta/collector edition/special order people is a bad idea.

Edit: not to mention being rightfully pissed off at the money-grubbing aspects of it:
Quote
Poster:  Samera
I apologize for the confusion. I have edited my original post. The Brooch of Underwater Breathing can stack with the Limited Edition item. the Boots of Running. On the other hand, the only way you can have the Brooch of Underwater Breathing AND the +1AC amulet is if you purchase two copies of the game - one a preorder copy, and the other the retail copy from Target.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 05:35:33 AM by Trippy »
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #3 on: February 24, 2006, 06:00:50 AM

Well yeah points taken.  It's possibliy the most complicated launch ever.

If I understand correctly, and despite a lot of reading it wouldn't surprise me if I didn't.

Pre order box - +1 AC amulet.

Limited Edition Pre order box - +1 AC amulet + 5% run speed boots

Target post release box - underwater breathing Brooch.

All that combined with a pre-launch head start event and communication from Turbine that tried to fix all the fuss about pissing people off with (2 day before head start) news of the Target post release box by basically saying "chill out the item is crap anyway".

All that's not mentioning that 10 beta passes for pre-ordering appears to have encouraged some players to pre-order for 10 day pass, cancel pre-order, then pre-order to get another 10 day pass.  With the different pre-order items, some players are cancelling pre-orders with one retailer to get a different item with a pre-order or post launch buy with a different retailer.

New improved Developer griefing, not satisified with pissing players off, they piss EB and gamestop off.  I'm sure if Target checked they wouldn't be too pleased about their exclusive item's negative factors being talked up as a positive either.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 06:09:49 AM by Arthur_Parker »
Mesozoic
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Reply #4 on: February 24, 2006, 08:15:30 AM

The responses in the linked thread are equal parts "woot" and "I can't log in."

The pre-order bonuses are a blatant attempt to lure understandably-nervous players back into the habit of buying up-front.  Players have learned that they get a better game for less money if they wait 6-12 months after release to buy.  Of course that's no good for the business, and as it turns out its easier to throw virtual items at the mob rather than actually develop a solid game from the beginning.

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
Miasma
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Reply #5 on: February 24, 2006, 08:29:39 AM

So does anyone have a link to the defacto build you should use as worked out by the min/maxers?

Downloading the head start client now. I'm sure there are reasons they cant just patch up the beta client I got when I preordered.
Does this mean I shouldn't even bother putting that disc in my computer?
Wasted
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Reply #6 on: February 24, 2006, 09:10:48 AM


Downloading the head start client now. I'm sure there are reasons they cant just patch up the beta client I got when I preordered.
Does this mean I shouldn't even bother putting that disc in my computer?

Yes, it is completely useless now from what I can gather.
Calandryll
Developers
Posts: 335

Would you kindly produce a web game.


Reply #7 on: February 24, 2006, 09:43:08 AM

If you have the preorder CD but never played in the beta (in other words, you never patched) then yes, you'll need to download the client from here:
http://download.turbine.com/ddo/ddo_client_install.exe

If you did play the beta and patched, then you should be able to patch up the retail version without having to download anything.
HaemishM
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Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


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Reply #8 on: February 24, 2006, 10:41:13 AM

New improved Developer griefing, not satisified with pissing players off, they piss EB and gamestop off. 
They deserve it.

Yegolev
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2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


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Reply #9 on: February 24, 2006, 12:16:56 PM

EB and GameStop are two heads of the same pimple.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #10 on: February 24, 2006, 12:28:00 PM

I don't see how annoying them benefits Turbine with DDO expansions & MEO + expansions on the horizon.  Amusing though it may be.
schild
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Reply #11 on: February 24, 2006, 01:18:33 PM

Haha, the Target gift is so much better than the other stuff. That's awesome.
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #12 on: February 24, 2006, 01:25:57 PM

I completely don't understand

and I went to the site

can i buy the game NOW and download a client and start playing learning, or is the preorder a "preorder box retail" sale that will make me wait?     
CmdrSlack
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Reply #13 on: February 25, 2006, 07:59:15 AM

Meh, the Target gift only gives a short extension to your breath meter once/day.  I'd take 1 AC any day.

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
Samwise
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Reply #14 on: February 25, 2006, 11:18:11 AM

Helms of Underwater Breathing aren't that hard to come by in game.  And there are only a couple of quests where they're useful.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
CmdrSlack
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Reply #15 on: February 27, 2006, 10:05:59 AM

The biggest problem was that the person who wrote the post that started the whole tempest in a teapot did a piss-poor job of writing the post.

I highly doubt that the info that later came out as clarification was super-secret data.  Communication with the player base needs some work, to say the least.

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
Miasma
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Stopgap Measure


Reply #16 on: February 27, 2006, 11:32:51 AM

They got an article about the game in the New York Times.  It went with a pen and paper versus computer theme though.
Mesozoic
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Reply #17 on: February 27, 2006, 11:41:33 AM

Quote
Mr. Pirozzi added: "Like in one campaign I was running, the players were fighting and I threw the 'South Park' kids into the fight and I had stats for them and everything. You can't have that kind of flexibility in a computer game."

A rock-solid argument. 

All nerds please take three steps back in social standing.


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-Numtini
Samwise
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Reply #18 on: February 27, 2006, 12:14:21 PM

Jesus wept.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Margalis
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Reply #19 on: February 27, 2006, 04:19:43 PM

He probably actually said "I threw 3 Owlbears into the fight" but the NYT figured nobody would know WTF that was.

D&D - rust monsters, displacer beasts and Eric Cartman.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #20 on: February 27, 2006, 04:32:38 PM

Bet Kenny has low hit points.

Reading the DDO forums, a couple of reports of level 7 players.  This is going to be interesting to watch with no end game, I predict lots of drama.
Soln
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Reply #21 on: February 27, 2006, 05:12:58 PM

Ok I'll bite.  There is no end game.  Please keep grindingz0r.

I got DDO on "preoder" Fri

I did not do the Beta

I did read and remembered everyone's comments (particularly Haemish's)

I am at best ambivalent.  I'll keep playing but at launch it doesn't grab me, which isn't good for a game.

It's very striking visually, but the UI looks like it was made by another company -- or at worst, cheap foreign contractors.  The controls just don't match the quality of the art (hard to explain, but I'm serious).  Also, I just can't get the combat.  The whole time it felt like early Diablo.  Everyone was running around with weapons drawn, swinging at the air... Didn't any of you complain about this in the Beta?  It's really foolish.  Design IMO should be always LEFT CLICK to attack, and RIGHT CLICK for secondary action or defence (which BTW is what M&B do  /sigh).  The actual combat is hard, but not skill hard.  It's UI (mouse) hard, which is not game design hard.  Capiche?  Also, the mission driven grind theme of the game, most people are moving as fast as possible between instances making the chance to group pretty nigh impossible.  Maybe it's just the lower levels, but no one is grouping at Level 1+ and no one is hanging around to talk.  I have yet to see a group as well, although some people are sporting guild tags.

I don't know, seems awfully thin.   What am I missing?


« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 05:14:30 PM by Soln »
Miasma
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Reply #22 on: February 27, 2006, 05:37:11 PM

I wasn't in the beta and didn't do a whole lot of the pen and paper, my first impression was "Why the hell are there all these robots running around?".

It's something different, I'm going to keep trying.  I made a barbarian so I was able to solo those first few quests pretty easily.  The UI is lackluster but at least it seems to work.  Having to examine something by clicking on it, then clicking on the question mark at the bottom right is absurd though.  The first thing I did was go into options to switch the mouse buttons, why on earth were those the default?

The main thing I don't like is the combat, I don't have a third arm and I need the two I do have on the mouse and wasd.  Having to tumble and use an ability is very awkward.  Also I can't see any effects caused by my abilities, if I use sunder armor I have no idea if it worked, nothing changes, I want to see a little shield breaking animation on my target.  Speaking of which I really don't like the targeting, it's clunky.  And if something hits me I should go into auto-attack right there, trying to double right click a moving target while I'm tumbling out of the way is aggravating.

Maybe I'll get used to the combat, the real test will be when I am forced to group.  I see that ending badly.
Soln
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Reply #23 on: February 27, 2006, 06:59:51 PM

The main thing I don't like is the combat, I don't have a third arm and I need the two I do have on the mouse and wasd.  Having to tumble and use an ability is very awkward.  Also I can't see any effects caused by my abilities, if I use sunder armor I have no idea if it worked, nothing changes, I want to see a little shield breaking animation on my target.  Speaking of which I really don't like the targeting, it's clunky.  And if something hits me I should go into auto-attack right there, trying to double right click a moving target while I'm tumbling out of the way is aggravating.

Maybe I'll get used to the combat, the real test will be when I am forced to group.  I see that ending badly.

Ok I should have said ALL THAT.  Targeting, specials, lack of effect.... yeah it's tough.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #24 on: February 28, 2006, 02:09:10 AM

Ok I'll bite.  There is no end game.  Please keep grindingz0r.


Not at all, grinding is what you normally have to do to get to the "end game" or if you don't like that expression the "good part of the game".  DDO doesn't even have a random element to the dungeons, Diablo has more replayablity.  If they don't add a massive patch soon I don't see how this can do anything but fail, who's going to pay a monthly fee for a game they have finished, even if they liked it?
Margalis
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Reply #25 on: February 28, 2006, 03:02:35 AM

(Raises hand.)

Wait...I didn't understand the question. (Looks confused)

Anyway about the combat, plenty of people pointed these things out. Not just here but on the official beta forums. As is always the case with games in beta, it sounds like very little changed.

It doesn't seem to take much skill, the targetting is annoying, it doesn't feel right, it doesn't look like you are really hitting your target - all problems that were discussed a bunch in beta forums. Oh well.

The fact is most games when they hit open beta are only looking for game-breaking issues like the servers die completely. Other than that they don't do much because they don't allocate enough time in the process to respond adequately to feedback. There is also the problem of giving away open beta to too many users who get too far and then pay for less.

The solution is to have long closed beta periods with fewer people where you really listen and make adustments. In a MMORPG I would want at least 4 months where I thought all the systems and content were basically done and the only thing left to do was respond to feedback. Or even longer.

Just to gather meaningful feedback will take a couple weeks, then making any changes and publishing them will take a couple more weeks. So 4 months isn't a long time. The key is that the game has to be essentially done at this point except for things like sound fx and animation, voiceovers, etc.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #26 on: February 28, 2006, 05:55:27 AM

Congratulations to the Ciryadin, seems to have finished the game just before it was released.  rolleyes

http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4016

Quote
what to do after hitting level 10?
farm for +5/+6 is the only thing left?Huh

level 10 rogue
my equip is +4 elemental only

feats:
twf
wf
xbow
freload

skills:
elv. dex 3
rogue dex 3
inge 5
percep 5

stats:
10
26
10
14
8
14

current equip:
2 sunswords
+4 frost/searing sickles
+4 frost/searing light maces
+4 mithral chain shirt
+4 adamantine light shield
+4 repeating frost heavy x-bow, using flaming arrows

more of the same of wow.. farm for top items  :-(
Soln
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Reply #27 on: February 28, 2006, 06:00:01 AM

Um wow

Ok I have no history or illwill with Turbine, but holy fuck that's embarasssing

<outofbreath> "Ding!  Game complete.  Time, 48 hrs?.   FIRST!"    amazing
Mesozoic
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Reply #28 on: February 28, 2006, 06:32:54 AM

Damn I was just about to post a link to that thread.  No way to know if its really true, but it seems like an odd thing to try to fake.  So Turbine is 1 for 3 with making games with enough content to keep players playing.

EDIT:  This is a ridiculously bad sign if players can hit the cap in a few days, the only endgame is to reroll, and the resulting alt is just going to have to repeat the same quest string. 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2006, 06:39:40 AM by Mesozoic »

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
Murgos
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Reply #29 on: February 28, 2006, 07:37:23 AM

And we have our first ubar template.  Good job that man.

I like how he sounds disappointed that he ding!gratzed level 10 already.  What exactly was he expecting?

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Mesozoic
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Reply #30 on: February 28, 2006, 08:12:54 AM

Its easy to mock an individual player for playing too much.  Folks at ddo.com are pretty good at it.  And I'm pretty sure the guy went out of his way to get to max level right up front so he could announce it on the boards and declare that the sky is falling.  But even if the man is the most sleep-deprived of catasses, max level in 48 hours is not good for the game.  Especially in light of the fact that there is (reportedly) nothing to do at 10th.

The only real hope is that the man is a liar and is nowhere near max level. 

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
Wasted
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Reply #31 on: February 28, 2006, 08:24:35 AM

I dont think he is probably lying, I grouped with someone on the first day that had obviously played a lot of beta and memorised the entire layout of all the dungeons we went through.  He knew where every trap and trap box where, bosses and chests and secret doors.  The marketplace was empty when we got access we where probably among the first there, he talked to me later that day again when I logged on and he was already about to level to 5th.

Even given that the advancement rate slows down after 5th I can easily see people hitting 10 in a few solid days, the game really isnt meant to be played like that (not defending it though).
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #32 on: February 28, 2006, 09:22:23 AM

Even given that the advancement rate slows down after 5th I can easily see people hitting 10 in a few solid days, the game really isnt meant to be played like that (not defending it though).

But all BS aside, what was in Turbine's mind when they designed this?  all MMO's so far are just level grinds.  How can you cap out an MMP with no end game to keep people playing?  Are people playing a meta-game of grinding for EBay?
Wasted
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Reply #33 on: February 28, 2006, 09:47:12 AM

Even given that the advancement rate slows down after 5th I can easily see people hitting 10 in a few solid days, the game really isnt meant to be played like that (not defending it though).

But all BS aside, what was in Turbine's mind when they designed this?  all MMO's so far are just level grinds.  How can you cap out an MMP with no end game to keep people playing?  Are people playing a meta-game of grinding for EBay?

Who knows what they where thinking, we only see the end result.  The game isnt without its good points but I really do get the feeling when I play it that they did the minimum they had to do to get a mmo out there with the D&D label out there.  Just everything about the game feels under-done.
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #34 on: February 28, 2006, 09:50:48 AM

I think its a "play after a year" game.  Give them time to fill out content and add an end game.

"Me am play gods"
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