Skill Numbers

[Alkiera]

I was curious about skill training times, and stats and stuff, and hadn't seen this stuff listed here before, so I figured I'd share.  If you don't want to hear about exactly how adjusting stat X affects the skill training time of skills Y and Z, feel free to ignore the following mathematics.

Every skill has a primary stat and secondary stat.  These, along with the Learning skill, dictate how many skill points you will earn towards the training of a given skill in one minute.  The formula works out to this:

Code:

 (Pri + (Sec / 2)) * (1 + (0.02 * Learning)) 

.

Basically, if you have a 10 in both the primary stat and secondary stat, and no 'Learning', you'll earn 15 skill points towards the training of that skill every minute.  The 'rank' of the skill is basically how many skill points it takes to get to each level of a skill.  Rank 1 skills have level 1 at 250 points, level 3 at 8000, and level 5 at 256,000.  Rank 2 skills are twice those numbers, Rank 3 skills are three times rank 1's, etc, apparently up as high as rank 12.  Those numbers are also cumulative.  Level 2 in a rank 1 skill is 1414 skill points... but that counting the 250 for level 1, so to get from level 1 to level 2 is only 1164 points.

This results in some odd numbers... namely that of the total 256,000 skill points needed to fully level a rank 1 skill, the skill points for each individual level(not cumulative) are

Code:

lvl	% of total time from 0 to 5
1	0.10%
2	0.45%
3	2.57%
4	14.55%
5	82.32%

Getting to level three is easy.  Four isn't too bad, but watch that last step... it's a doozy.

Now the earlier recommndations that you train all the various learning skills up to 4 before going to 5, and then starting the 2nd tier of them.  Level 5 is to be avoided if possible.

So, as far as learning skills go...  each +1 to primary stat is +1 skill point per minute.  Secondary stat is 1/2 skill point per minute.  This means that as you raise your stats, you get diminishing returns... If you're already getting 20 sp/minute, adding 1 to a primary stat is only going to provide a 5% increase in sp gain, and a 5% decrease in time to train.  Whereas if you have low stats, and are only getting 8 sp/min, that +1 is a much larger percentage.  Basically, I can see it being pretty easy to benefit training the learning skills to 3, 4 is a little harder... but it takes a LOT longer for that extra 1 point per minute to make up for the long time spent training from 4 to 5... Going from 0 to 4 takes less than 25% of the time to get from 4 to 5...  Again, you can train 4 other rank 1 skills from 0 to 4 in the time it takes to get 1 rank 1 skill from 4 to 5.

Discuss...

Alkiera

[Raging Turtle]

Other useful info

Although if you actually train like that you'll go insane from boredom.

That said, I think I'll be training for interceptors soon.  Frigate V and Evasive Manuevering V 

[Alkiera]

For the average player without implants, this process would take about 60 days and you’ll be training 2.36 times as fast as you were to begin with.

*blink*  So, I can double my training speed, and it only takes TWO MONTHS OF COMPLETE BOREDOM??///?  Geez, sign me up.

Alkiera

[Strazos]

You might train 2.36 times as fast, but you'll probably drop the sub before it even gets done, because you'll still be stuck in the rookie ship.


I do whatever the hell I want, and I have fun, and I blow up big ships. I'm pretty sure I win.

[Hoax]

Yeah dont do that.

Train the basic INT/WP/PER/MEM and Learning to 4, then start skilling up.  Once you get basic cruisier skills (nothing higher then 3 except pre-reqs for various mods or skills you must have) go back and take INT + another skill of your choice to 5 and take the advanced skills (4.5mill per book) for those two to 4.  Now continue training your ordinary skills.  

That's my guide to getting learning skills, and actually playing EvE.

[Merusk]

Thanks for putting some math to my earlier arguments against immedately training up to 5 in everything. (In addition to my arguments that it's JUST PLAIN BORING  :-D )

That said, I'm at 3.4 mil and I only just trained learning to level 5 this morning.  Now on to Memory and Int.  The reason is that I'm now to the point that skills I'm working on are rank 4 or so, and the investment will save me days instead of just hours. (Training BC to rank 5 would take me 38 days right now.  31 days with the skills trained up.) 

Yeah it'll take me two weeks to save one week of training, but I have all my base skills trained up to around 3.  Thus by spending the time I'm not gimping myself by doing this instead of training new things, I'm refining my current roles.

[Strazos]

Heh, I just got the rest of the learning skills to 4. I did a LOT of training in combat trees.

A lot.

[Alkiera]

I do whatever the hell I want, and I have fun, and I blow up big ships. I'm pretty sure I win.

Exactly.  I'm still not sure I'm gonna keep playing past the 14 day trial, why would I sign on to a 60 day training regimen?  Yuck.  On that topic, tho, deciding between WoW and this is kinda annoying.  I don't wanna be flighty, and I've only been playing WoW for a month or so, and starting playing it to join a friend; however, he's a 60 in an uber raiding guild, and apparently doesn't have the time/schedule to actually play WITH me... at least while I'm still only 26.  However, I'm only a bit behind the crowd here in EVE, and can still be useful once I've trained up a bit... and not the couple months it'd take me to level to 60 in WoW.

Alkiera

[Furiously]

I do whatever the hell I want, and I have fun, and I blow up big ships. I'm pretty sure I win.

Exactly.  I'm still not sure I'm gonna keep playing past the 14 day trial, why would I sign on to a 60 day training regimen?  Yuck.  On that topic, tho, deciding between WoW and this is kinda annoying.  I don't wanna be flighty, and I've only been playing WoW for a month or so, and starting playing it to join a friend; however, he's a 60 in an uber raiding guild, and apparently doesn't have the time/schedule to actually play WITH me... at least while I'm still only 26.  However, I'm only a bit behind the crowd here in EVE, and can still be useful once I've trained up a bit... and not the couple months it'd take me to level to 60 in WoW.

Alkiera

I really need to do the math or pull out the character to see from 0 what the time would be to Cruisers and heavy missiles. I'm guessing you could do it in under 2 weeks.

[hal]

For a noob starting out training level 1 skills you will cut entire seconds off of skill training time. When you start training a skill to two get the approbate learning to two. three to three etc. That way you can get in your first real ship. run missions hunt rats etc. and your not ignoring your learning skills

[Yoru]

To blitz Cruisers/Heavy missiles only takes about 3 days if you set yourself up properly. It's possible to start a character with Frigate 4 (thus bypassing ~3 days of training time), so you need to get:

* Cruiser 0 -> 2 (probably about 6 hours)
* SS Command 2 -> 3 (about 8 hours, possibly 16, I forget if this is rank 2)
* Missile Launcher Operation 0 -> 3 (about 12 hours)
* Standard Missiles 0 -> 3 (about 12 hours)
* Heavy Missiles 0 -> 1 (about 1 hour)

Note that this is a very bare-bones plan; it's missing all the electronics/engineering skills you'd need to actually fit anything aside from missile launchers. So...

* Electronics 0 -> 3 (about 12 hours)
* Engineering 0 -> 3 (about 12 hours)
* Hull, Electronics, Power Grid Upgrades 0 -> 1 (about 3 hours total)
* Shield Operation 0 -> 2 (about 2 hours)
* Shield Upgrades 0 -> 1 (about an hour)

Two days later and you're doing okay.. provided you can babysit the client enough to chain-train.

Note that this ignores all considerations of money, which will be your real barrier during the early days. All these skills will cost quite a bit, and you'll probably want to invest capital into a Frigate 3 ship in the meantime.

[Polysorbate80]

Yeah, I started with Frigate IV, which saved time...but then realized (after purchasing my first missile launcher) that during character creation I'd missed out on selecting *any* missile skills, which cost me a bit.  Still finished out the two-week in a Caracal with Heavy Launchers and ~13 million sitting in the wallet.  Nothing too uber on the gear (i.e., no modules requiring higher than a rank 3 or more than 750k each), but enough to hunt decent rats and generally avoid gankage.

I think I only took Learning to 3 and Iron Will to 3 (and that one only since the char already had it and it was easy).  Otherwise I took skills as needed to operate the gear I wanted to use or for bonuses I really wanted, up to level 2 or three.

[addryc]

I wish I'd thought more about my character generation - working up to frigate 4 is daunting!

Nevertheless - as already said - unless you have rich friends, you're not going to have a nice cruiser to fly in 3 days after starting anyway!

[WayAbvPar]

I have been adding skills here and there- I have 70+ skills but still only about 600k total skill points. Over half my skill points are in learning- I have Instant Recall to 5, (and the advanced skill Eidetic Memory to 3), with Int and Learning at 4, the rest at 3. I decided to train one to 5 and see how much faster the training was with the added advanced levels. The 3 levels of Eidetic Memory have shaved off like a day and half from Learning 4 to 5 (and other 4>5 skills).

At times this has been frustrating, since I have such a broad but shallow skill set. However, I think it will serve me well in the long run- I will need several skills at level 5, and the 4 to 5 jump is huge. I think my next two big steps will be to get Engineering and Electronics to at least 4), then back fill all the other skills to 3s and 4s. By that point I figure I should be ready to start flying cruisers with the skills to back it up. I decided that I didn't want to fast track and then spend a lot of money to fly a ship gimped by my total lack of support skills. Only when I can pimp a frigate out with pretty much any setup I want will I go on to cruisers.


Or I might get bored running level I missions, take another II, get my ass handed to me, and decide to fast track to cruisers  :-D

[Merusk]

Assault Frigates only Require Frigate V, Mechanic V and Engineering V, and that's what I was flying last night, Way.  You saw how wonderfuly effective it was, and my understanding is if it's kitted out better than I currently have it (I'm cheap and by and large only use dropped gear), it's well very capable of doing L3 missions and low-sec ratting.

[Der Helm]

Assault Frigates only Require Frigate V, Mechanic V and Engineering V, and that's what I was flying last night, Way.  You saw how wonderfuly effective it was, and my understanding is if it's kitted out better than I currently have it (I'm cheap and by and large only use dropped gear), it's well very capable of doing L3 missions and low-sec ratting.

Only Frigate V ? You are talking about 10 days of training (left, for me). :-D

[Strazos]

I have tons of different skills, a lot of which are up to at least level 3.

I'll have to post what I have when I get home Sunday.

[Merusk]

Well, it was easy for me to get Frigates V, so I use "only" ;)    I knew I wanted to do combat after a few days, so I rerolled and did the 'custom profession' with some help from Maya/Mr. Crick.  Wound-up with something like Frigates 4 and Spaceship Command 3 to go along with my combat skills and a LOT more skillpoints than the 'choose a profession' route.

[MahrinSkel]

That "ideal" training plan is only for alt's that you plan to ignore until they are useful. 

--Dave

[Strazos]

Though that alt would have to be on another account, what with the whole "one skill actively training per account."

[squirrel]

My strategy is to take advantage of the fact you don't lose any time by cancelling and then restarting training. For example i'll set a 19H skill before i go to bed, then after work the next day when i log in train a 20 minute skill while i play, then another 1h skill, then when i log out restart the 19H skill.

Works for me - i've gotten Frigate V, Learning V, Int IV, Mem IV, Perc IV, Cruiser IV, Missile, shield ops, targetting, shield management, std missile, heavy missile, rockets III, Gunnery, hybrid turrets and a bunch of other stuff to II doing this. Of course i min-maxed at character creation to get Frig III and some other combat skills.

I'm headed to London on monday for work without any gaming access for a week - plan to have Evasive V soonish heh...which btw is so i can fly an interceptor for us soonish...i have most of the other skills already

[Yegolev]

That works great until all of the skills you want have inconvenient times, like nine hours or five days... tough choice.

[squirrel]

Ya heh just noticed that. Which is more convenient? 10 hours or 1D 3 hours. Bleh - i'll just keep on keeping on then....

[Hoax]

I usually divide skills into 3 tiers.

17hrs+ (what I train on nights I expect to be going out)

14-21hrs (perfect starting when I go to work or before I go to sleep -which will get it into next category)

5hrs or less  (can be completed while I'm online and home from work)

I try to organize what I want most from each category then work on the one that is appropriate according to my schedule.