1.9 biggest Blizzard fuck-up so far

[Jeff Kelly]

A non-comprehensive list of bugs in 1.9

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-tech-support&t=649962&p=1&tmp=1#post649962

Ah and half of the german servers are still offline after 30 hours from the beginning of scheduled maintenance and will most probably not come online today

[edit] fixed some spelling errors and probably introduced some more ;-)

[Raging Turtle]

I laughed more than once reading that list. 

[Der Helm]

"Never play on patch day week" still seems to hold true ...

[Mesozoic]

Things were really fubar last night.  Bad lag, trade windows closed on their own, mail was slow as hell - at one point the Org mailbox literally disappeared from view for everyone.  The issues seem to be directly related to server load, since there were none of these problems this morning. 

[schild]

Obviously someone forgot a semicolon before the final compile.

[Venkman]

Can anyone tell me if there's anyone left who doesn't see the continually glaring parallels between Blizzard's actions and SOEs of old? It's almost scary, like this is SOE three years ago, and we're watching them learn almost the exact same stuff.

Yes, big complex games will get bugs. But given that Patches aren't linked to Holiday sales, you'd think in this case they'd actually "not push it out until it's done", rather than just using that as a cute (and untrue) advertising slogan. Bascially, as long as it has taken to get 1.9 done (it's been months since they first mentioned what it would contain), it obviously needed to take longer.

[Alkiera]

Odd.  I played some last night, didn't have any of these problems, tho I have yet to do anything with the AH, and I can't raid yet.  I would guess that a lot of these problems seem to be patch related, specifically, to the failure of the patcher to work properly, or corrupted data in the patch.  I'd guess we can attribute some of that to the crappy blizzard patcher thing.

Other stuff, I agree with Mesozoic, sounds like server load.  I play on a low pop PvP server, so I don't see near the load issues that some do, I'd guess.  Ah well.  I had fun last night.  That's my only requirement for the game.

Alkiera

[schild]

I'll admit I didn't notice it until this thread popped up with a link to the WoW thread. Combined with what SOE just announced for EQ2 (the expansion) - announcing an expansion this close to release is something very much like the Japanese would do. BIG titles are released in Japan every month, but the majority of them don't get press until a month or two before release. They're practically done. Announcing something 2-3 years in advance is very western. Lately a lot of companies have taken the Japanese route. UBISoft did it with Splinter Cell Essentials for the PSP and now SOE is doing it with Kingdom of Sky (originally the PVP/class changes were due in as a patch during January and they obviously decided to push it out with actual content). Blizzard on the other hand is the stereotypical western design group - announce way too early and then eventually release it. And, somehow, the bugs are still innumerable while the rate of bugs in Japanese titles (granted, the majority of examples I could come upw ith are console titles) are bugfree (for the most part). I really wish every company would adopt the eastern style of announcing things.

"We'll announce it when we're ready." I like that a lot more than "It'll ship when it's ready" being said years before hand.

Of course, we run into the problem of localization time and pretending sales in japan matter when it comes to sales in America. There's probably something interesting to be said about the bridge the internet has made. Back in NES/SNES days, sure games would come out 2 years before we got them in America. But we didn't know about them that early. Well, some of them we did because of the conventions (mostly those were 1st party Nintendo titles though). Now? I can list 30 Japanese games that would probably do very well in America but we'll never see them. I can also list 30 games that are being localized, will take too long, and be old news by the time their released. Companies really need to start localizing as they make the game and ship english on the japanese discs and vice versa. As far as video games go, America and Japan might as well be one big community now - it's a goddamn joke that Katamari Damacy, of which there might be an hour of dialogue and little to no voice work will take 6 months to localize. Sure, some RPGs can take a while, but do the fucking thing simoultaneously. When the PS3 comes out, America will be in the same region as Japan as far as discs are concerned. It's all one big goddamn joke.

[Venkman]

It's just a question of resources, and the fact that localization isn't confined just to dialog. There are themes and full aesthetics that sometimes just don't work cross-culturally. Look at the lag time between the emergence of Anime in the Far East versus its still relative infancy in the U.S. Part of this is the tail wagging the dog of course, with publishers thinking they have a current bead on trends when in reality they're mostly designing for trends of two years ago (since that's when they started the work). But it's also the fact that there are groups that still think games are a linear development process that start with design and then start to drive on rails when they enter development mode.

Trends and game development should be concurrent. If you don't start developing a game until a trend has been discovered, or worse, when it peaks, then you'll never hit with the game when the trend is relevant. MxO is a good example. That game should have launched six months after the first movie, not after the second and third one effectively killed the license.

This corrolates back to localization because localizing is more about the relevance of an experience in a market and how to deliver that than it is just All Your Basing over some scripts and avatars. Why someone localizes is based on the demographic and publishing rights/partners. How they do it stems from that more than the complexities of doing so in my experience.

Because this relates to 1.9 somehow...

[Hoax]

All I know is, I got the first real crash of WoW I've ever had.  Just froze for no reason and I was crashed, only thing I can think of is I was reorganizing people in a raid group but I had been doing that a bunch of that doesn't really explain it.  Other then that I have not had many/any problems.

[Rasix]

The only really thing I've experienced so far is the fishing and UI bugs. Took a WTF/WDB folder wipe and I'm not going to bother raising fishing.  I know of at least one person that had to reinstall the game and then couldn't patch up.  Raid assist has been wonky. 

This baby got rushed out a bit too fast. The CMs seemed to have made a promise to have the patch out before the QA on it was really done.  And they stuck to it.. gah.

Ohh and the new tranquil air totem makes Onyxia even more of a joke.  Hunters that don't have to feign at all can just tear through the bitch.  And this is completely off topic, but does tremor totem work on her fear? It seemed to be working but someone said it doesn't.

[Xanthippe]

The fishing skilling up appears to be broken.

[HaemishM]

Can anyone tell me if there's anyone left who doesn't see the continually glaring parallels between Blizzard's actions and SOEs of old? It's almost scary, like this is SOE three years ago, and we're watching them learn almost the exact same stuff.

Other than the fact that Blizzard knows enough to keep their fucking mouths shut and not say stupid shit like "Being a victim is FUN!" yeah, they are very similar. Their almost complete lack of communication with the player base probably keeps them from earning the SOE Pigfucker title.

[cevik]

Other than the fact that Blizzard knows enough to keep their fucking mouths shut and not say stupid shit like "Being a victim is FUN!" yeah, they are very similar. Their almost complete lack of communication with the player base probably keeps them from earning the SOE Pigfucker title.

Ehh, I trolled the message boards for EQ as much (more really) as I do the WoW message boards, and the WoW CMs post way more messages in a day than that EQ guy ever did.  And I'm talking back when Lum was at his height and the EQ boards were roaring..

[HaemishM]

But do they say such gems as "Being a victim is fun" or "Alchemy is working as intended" or "My Porchse needs new tires?"

[Typhon]

I haven't played every MMO so this is an honest question: has there ever been a CSR that hated the players more than Absor?

[cevik]

But do they say such gems as "Being a victim is fun" or "Alchemy is working as intended" or "My Porchse needs new tires?"

Not at all, I was responding to this:

Their almost complete lack of communication with the player base probably keeps them from earning the SOE Pigfucker title.

I think they communicate as much or more than Sony did, and they have yet to catch foot in mouth disease as bad as SOE had it.  That one guy that quit/got fired/whatever, Fangtooth (?) said some pretty silly things from time to time.  But it wasn't abusive, it was mainly a showing of his total lack of understanding the basic mechanics of the game.

[Hoax]

The latest warrior rep really fucking sucked.

He/she talked about Enrage like it was an activated ability and then it got nerfed.  The warrior boards were in an uproar for several weeks.

[Morfiend]

The latest warrior rep really fucking sucked.

He/she talked about Enrage like it was an activated ability and then it got nerfed.  The warrior boards were in an uproar for several weeks.

Warriors need to be toned down so badly. No other class is as over powered imo. Its not the skills, its the item depencancey, and high end gear messing shit up.

[HaemishM]

But do they say such gems as "Being a victim is fun" or "Alchemy is working as intended" or "My Porchse needs new tires?"

Not at all, I was responding to this:

Their almost complete lack of communication with the player base probably keeps them from earning the SOE Pigfucker title.

I think they communicate as much or more than Sony did, and they have yet to catch foot in mouth disease as bad as SOE had it.  That one guy that quit/got fired/whatever, Fangtooth (?) said some pretty silly things from time to time.  But it wasn't abusive, it was mainly a showing of his total lack of understanding the basic mechanics of the game.

You must have to read the boards to really get that. It's a totally different feel. Maybe it's because I only read the WoW threads that are posted over here as examples of teh stupid, or maybe it's that I'm not slavishly looking for dev quotes like I used to do on EQ when EQVault was a regular read for me (the news, not the boards). It just seems like I hardly ever hear the Blizzard devs say anything, whereas Abashi was an every other day fuckup occurence.

Also, Absor had fuckall on Abashi for being a complete retard at speaking with the fan base.

[cevik]

You must have to read the boards to really get that. It's a totally different feel. Maybe it's because I only read the WoW threads that are posted over here as examples of teh stupid, or maybe it's that I'm not slavishly looking for dev quotes like I used to do on EQ when EQVault was a regular read for me (the news, not the boards). It just seems like I hardly ever hear the Blizzard devs say anything, whereas Abashi was an every other day fuckup occurence.

Also, Absor had fuckall on Abashi for being a complete retard at speaking with the fan base.

I think that's my point though, the communication is just as much, it's just not so boneheadly retardly abusive so you don't hear it.  Which makes you THINK they are communicating less, but they aren't, they are probably communicating more. 

I also think there is another factor at work here, namely the "we aren't quite so easily shocked" factor.  Back when Abashi was telling us he was going to cut a hole in our mother's abdomen and fuck it dry, we ran around with our panties in a bunch and front paged it.  Now when the Blizzard developers mumble something about burning down our dog and fucking our house, we just say "meh, seen worse", and it rarely garners a forum post, much less a front page article.

I miss the good old days of Lum's posts.  Hell I'd settle for Arcadain's faux outrage at this point.

[Furiously]

I like hats.

[Hoax]

The latest warrior rep really fucking sucked.

He/she talked about Enrage like it was an activated ability and then it got nerfed.  The warrior boards were in an uproar for several weeks.

Warriors need to be toned down so badly. No other class is as over powered imo. Its not the skills, its the item depencancey, and high end gear messing shit up.

Lets try not to go there, but you must be a rogue, that is the only class I can imagine crying about warriors because they actually have to go into melee range, and warriors own their face if they dont establish stunlock.

The power creep has gotten bad, Blizzard needs to realize this and make the next generation or two of gear have much higher armor/stamina levels to counter the insane dps they are putting on things not to mention things like Toep, negative resists and +spell damage.  Some of the truly high end warrior weapons allow so much rage generation it isn't even funny I'll give you that.  With the right combination of gear IN THEORY you may see the occasional Charge+hit+hs+MS+execute=kill in a matter of seconds.  But I'm skeptical even a perfectly geared warrior would get this more then once per day on anything but a PVE server because if your running around with less then 5k hp's your undergeared.  No matter what class you are.

The sad thing is, much of the warrior hate is based primarily off a video where the warrior had 52 talent points and 3 pocket healers and only showed footage where he had activated a 30min cooldown ability that makes almost every hit a crit.  You would think from some of the nerf warrior posts I've read that warriors run around crit'ing for 1k+ every other hit and MS hits for 3k minimum.

Everyone on the warrior boards agreed that moving enrage up one level so it takes 25 pts in fury to max it (so you can't combo MS and enrage) would have been a fine fix.  But instead we got this idiot rep, who thought that Enrage was something warriors "activate" by choice not when they are in the process of stunlock/snared/rooted/feared and dying.

[Fabricated]

But I'm skeptical even a perfectly geared warrior would get this more then once per day on anything but a PVE server because if your running around with less then 5k hp's your undergeared.  No matter what class you are.

Jesus. Ignoring amulets/rings/trinkets that give tons of stamina, I don't think my warrior would have 5k+ HP in Tier 1 equipment or a combination of the better equipment from BRD/Strat/DM/Scholo/LBRS/UBRS.

[Rasix]

Caydiem speaks. Some issues being looked at.  Who the fuck picked lean wolf steaks for horde?

edit: Steaks.. I didn't mean to imply that horde should fashion gardening supports out of animals.

[Typhon]

Also, Absor had fuckall on Abashi for being a complete retard at speaking with the fan base.

Ahhh, the memories must be fading, I meant Abashi, but couldn't remember the name.  Thanks.

[Venkman]

The latest warrior rep really fucking sucked.

This is something the forum folks there don't seem to have yet a handle on: WoW has no class reps. They have a pool of CSR folks charged with keeping the forums in line, and those people play the game the same way the players do. They do not "run" a class, they did not create them, and they do not have any more insight into how the classes work than the more informed player, because they do not report to the devs nor vice versa. Here it's like old SOE because the folks charged with being the front line for the game many times do know less than the harder-core players.

So it's not that the warrior rep sucked, it's that them having no class reps at all basically sucks.

Part of that I blame on a disconnect between development process and how players play. Players assumed the game was designed, and is managed, one class at a time. That's how changes are rolled out, but that's not how the game was developed. There is no "Mage" developer nor "Warrior" one. It's probably more like a team of people responsible for things like ranged/melee combat, spells of all types, and so on. Development in no way matches methods of play.

All this means is that Blizzard has years left to learn about proper community management. This is not stuff they should have left to figuring out after launch. This should have been what they developed concurrently during the first Stress test at the latest, in time for the second. You don't launch a multi-million-player MMORPG and then figure out how to manage the players later (and no, given their planned launch strategy across the world, I don't buy for a second they're surprised by being a really big MMORPG. Maybe surprised by 5mil, but they expected more than a mil or they wouldn't have invested so much in development.)

[Shockeye]

I think Blizzard would be better served closing up the forums and laying off their CRMs. At 5 million subscribers they obviously don't need to bother with the forum warriors and trolls.

[Threash]

Yeah some of those where pretty bad, in their defence though they are being fixed pretty fast.  Tuesday night is our normal MC night, so we decided to head out there patch or not and at first it was looking impossible to finish.  Banished mobs could still run around and fight, while being invulnerable to attack, made our first double pull a lot more interesting than usual and we figured there was no way we could do Garr but surprisingly by the time we got there a couple hours later it was fixed somehow without a reset or a patch. 

[Hoax]

But I'm skeptical even a perfectly geared warrior would get this more then once per day on anything but a PVE server because if your running around with less then 5k hp's your undergeared.  No matter what class you are.

Jesus. Ignoring amulets/rings/trinkets that give tons of stamina, I don't think my warrior would have 5k+ HP in Tier 1 equipment or a combination of the better equipment from BRD/Strat/DM/Scholo/LBRS/UBRS.

Trust me, if you are on a pvp server and you are under 5k hp you a crazy, under level 60 or terribly under geared.  Take this with a grain of salt though because I expect everyone to have access to ony+full superior pvp set at a minimum before they are not terribly under geared.  That is how it works on my server.  Hell my warrior is almost to 6k and I am still using the valor chest (ugh) and haven't put +100hp on my legs/chest yet, stupid black dragon things I need to farm...

[Simond]

I think Blizzard would be better served closing up the forums and laying off their CRMs. At 5 million subscribers they obviously don't need to bother with the forum warriors and trolls.

I (mostly) agree - Keep the tech support forum, realm status, etc (but heavily Stalinized) and kill the rest with fire.
Not having official forums is about the only smart move Sigil is making with Vanguard.

[Driakos]

I'm going to be that guy that says he hasn't had any problems (or grouped with anyone with new problems).  Titan is incompatible now, but that is it.  I'll just get a new version.

I'll try out the fishing thing tonight.  I need to get to 200 anyhow, so I can do the quest.

[cevik]

But I'm skeptical even a perfectly geared warrior would get this more then once per day on anything but a PVE server because if your running around with less then 5k hp's your undergeared.  No matter what class you are.

Jesus. Ignoring amulets/rings/trinkets that give tons of stamina, I don't think my warrior would have 5k+ HP in Tier 1 equipment or a combination of the better equipment from BRD/Strat/DM/Scholo/LBRS/UBRS.

Jeez man, my mostly blue, but some green geared priest has 4k hp, and he's only 56.  5k Hp doesn't seem terribly unfeasible  at 60.  I expect by the time I move up the pvp ladder to a better rank than 6 (which I could easily have done had I not started playing a different character), and get the last of my ab rep, and do a few raids I could easily get to 7k hp.  If I can do that on a priest (mainly a pvp priest, mind you, my mana regen SUCKS ASS, but I pot/ration my way to victory), you can do it on a warrior.

[Paelos]

7k health is very easy to get as a warrior if you wear blue tanking gear, and you get some buff help. In my smackdown pvp crit gear, i have 4950 health unbuffed, and do 28% crits straight up. Granted, I trade health for damage, but against priests, druids, rogues, hunters, and the unprepared shammy in group pvp, it's all about quick strikes. Mages are tough in any gear, Prepared shammys will own you, and other warriors are a coinflip straight up.

I do know with really nice epic gear you can get 7k unbuffed, but that's a grindy party.

[Fabricated]

What the hell am I doing wrong?

I don't have anything enchanted right now since I don't know what I'll end up keeping and what I won't by the time I feel I'm at least passably geared, but with just two greens remaining (my Imperial PLate Chestpiece and Shoulders, eh, I'm waiting to get the ones from DM or Valor), I have around 4380-ish or so HP unbuffed if I recall. This is with the the Valor bracers/leggings/gauntlets, the Golem Skull Helm, the Grand Marshal Morris Medallion (+7 Stamina), the hammer of the vesper (+stamina), the Aegis of Stormwind (yeah, gimp compared to the like 3 nice quest shields you can get from Scholo/plaguelands/whatever, but it's +stamina), Belt of the Dawn, the Ribsteel Footguards, the Blackstone ring, and the Mason's Frat Ring.

I mean, that's definitely not uber gear by any means, but even Kromcrush's Breastplate and the shoulders from DM, I wouldn't have 5k HP unbuffed. WTF?