f13.net forums - More SoE office drama

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July 05, 2025, 05:48:08 AM

we're back, baby

well, more like typical "burned out employee who quit" ranting, but there is a pr0n angle to this one (former EQ2 CSR who quit SoE to do porn) so the story may have some legs.

Though my first thought after reading this was that I wanted to see Koster's 65-page manual on how to be a good CSR, which means I've been hanging out here far too long.

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Work gossip RETURNETH (and things)

I haven't bothered thinking or writing about SOE since I quit a few months ago but apparently a lot of other people have. In fact, it seems that the "unmasking of Faarwolf" raised quite a few questions about work vs. outside life and has (or had) a lot of people talking about it. Like I said, I've not checked up on any of these sites since I quit so all this is news to me, while it might be old for everyone else out there.

A few minutes ago someone linked me this article on Aggro Me, an EQII/MMO-related blog that I used to read fairly religiously (in fact, I read it as a part of my job at SOE). Following that, I found a similar article on Broken Toys and several other mentions on various blogs, all of which rather (stupidly in retrospect because really, wtf did I expect?) surprised me. Not in a BAD way, none of these mentions seem particularly negative really, but just in that it was really worth mention at all.

Anyway, late as this is I'd like to clarify a few things regarding my leaving SOE "to do porn". First off, I didn't get fired nor was I asked to leave. I put in my notice a full 2 months before I left in the interest of giving the EQII team ample time to find and train my replacement...which they didn't do anyway since they lagged until after I left. Secondly, I did my damndest to keep my private and professional lives seperate and I think I did a very good job. People on the EQII forums often wondered why I refused to have my picture taken at events and why I wouldn't post one of myself like a lot of other Dev team members did. I even made it into a bit of a game, saying that it was because I looked like a Troll (which had the effect of everyone assuming I was hot). A few people figured it out but they kept quiet and didn't make a scene, which I very much appreciated. By the same token, a lot of people on the EQII Dev Team knew about my hobbies outside of work, including upper management, and nobody cared. A few of them even signed up! It was never discussed but the general idea seemed to be that as long as it didn't affect my work, nobody really cared. I never discussed where I worked in my LJ or on my site and I never discussed my hobbies while at work. In short, it was never an issue.

As my site took off I realized that this wasn't going to be an indefinite situation. I chose pr0n over EQII Dev because 1. It pays better; 2. I don't have to deal with being micromanaged (or managed at all); 3. After the management changed, I hated my job anyway and 4. EQII was going nowhere (and I HATED San Diego to boot). I only accepted the job at SOE because I loved my work in the first place; I took a serious pay cut from working in IT to work there as a fucking forum moderator. I loved it though...I MISS the damn forums sometimes...the haiku, oh my! But the work environment just became the utter suck so /endjob.

Wanna know what turned me off about SOE? Well, first off I watched a girl with NO experience at all get promoted over me because she waggled her tits at her boss. I'm not an office flirt whatsoever and tend to keep to myself, so I totally lost on that front because I wasn't willing to go the hoebag omg-let-me-sit-on-ur-lap route. I was more like "gtf out of my cube and let me work in peace, you fag" so, no promotions for me. Strike one. Strike two was the fact that executive staff at SOE just kept making idiotic decisions and leaving Community Relations to clean up the mess. They outright lied to the customer base on several occasions and made me, who would have preferred to say "yeah we lied, our bad", make up excuses and bullshit that I knew the customer base wouldn't buy. I HATED that. Strike three was the management change. I do not refer to the promotion of Gallenite - that dude was seriously one of my favorite people at the entire company and a total badass to work with - or really to Blackguard either because he busted his ass and really loved the game. Largely it was the "we want more but will give you less to do it with" atmosphere, the 65-fucking-page-long manual on how to be a good Rep written by Raph Koster, having meetings in order to schedule meetings (wtf??) and Brenlo constantly micromanaging everything once he got promoted. Prior to that, I liked him just fine and as a person I still do; I just would never want to work under him again because he wants in on everything and I hate that. All this, coupled with the fact that the job was completely dead-end unless I wanted to flash some titty or work 18 hour days + in unpaid overtime in order to kiss someone's ass hard enough that they would move me onto a different team pretty much killed the magic for me. I still have a good view of the company but yeah...I was just done with it. 2 years with no movement at all? Fuck that. If I have to jiggle my tits in order to get somewhere then I'll do that on my own time where I'll get paid more to do it. Pure logic, that.

Once I quit I figured there was no reason to keep it a secret anymore so I talked about it publicly. Keep in mind that I didn't do that until after I quit SOE though...I never went there while I was an employee; I've more respect than that. Also, in regards to selling my EQII Dev stuff on eBay...well, I don't play EQ2 anymore and I got rid of a lot of things I didn't need when I moved, and that was among them. I saved some stuff - my signed poster, a collector's edition box, etc., but I sold the big stuff to help pay for my relocation. I'm not what you'd call a sentimental person at all so dragging that stuff around wasn't doing me any good, and anyway the sword was just a Kit Rae stamped with the EQII logo...it's not even really custom made.

In summary, I think that people should be allowed to do whatever they want to outside of work so long as it doesn't affect their job performance or overall effectiveness, and any vague two-bit arguments about how it's just "not right" or somehow unethical and the people who make those arguments can just take a hike off the highest cliff they can find. My employer doesn't buy the rights to my life when they start cutting me paychecks, dig? 'Nuff said.

From http://www.livejournal.com/users/malice_bd/143511.html via Fires of Heaven.

If she's gonna act like she has balls, she needs to step up the ante and name people. If she doesn't do that it's just more drama queening.

This falls under the "the Internet is serious business" saying. But for fun I'll entertain the notion that these upcoming sentences are true since the rest is just more of the gaming industry norm of bitching and moaning after the employer stops cutting your check.

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Well, first off I watched a girl with NO experience at all get promoted over me because she waggled her tits at her boss.

1. Girls who wag their tits in an office get promotions. It's called the real world. And I agree, it's not fair. Get a helmet. Me? I go out of my way not to compete with tits. I'd lose. Even if you don't have them, moobs always lose. If there was a real case here you'd own part of Sony.

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Strike two was the fact that executive staff at SOE just kept making idiotic decisions and leaving Community Relations to clean up the mess.

2. Community Relations people clean up messes. THAT'S THE JOB. The rest is the easy part. Perhaps your lack of wanting to clean up messes and dissension is why you didn't get the raises. Maybe the other girl was just willing to do it and she had nice tits. There's something to be said about doing what you're paid to do. Too much moral value? You shouldn't have sat around this long letting the anger brew. Which leads us back to point 1: Life isn't fair, get a helmet.

I'm definately not supporting SOE here, but this sort of shit is like going to a forum to make that last post about why you're leaving.

Edit: And holy jesus, she went into pr0n? Die in a hypocrisy fire. THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY IS BASED ON SHAKING BOOBIES TO GET AHEAD, YOU CRAZY BITCH.

SFW intro page to her site http://www.beautydestroyed.com/

Pretty, has a sense of style, but takes herself a wee bit seriously for my taste. Plus the name reeks of whiney surburban goth. Damn kids need to get off my lawn.

Her job with SOE, unlike her job running a porn site, had nothing to do with boobie shaking. How is there any hypocracy there? The two things are completely unrelated. And booby shaking is NOT part of the real world of business. If people were promoted because their boss solicited sexual favours and they complied, it's beyond wrong. It's unethical, illegal and creates an unhealthy, nasty work environment.

She can't name people, by the way, until her NDA has expired. You don't encourage people to break their NDAs here. In fact, quite the opposite. Why should you encourage her? She could be in a wee bit of trouble for the little she said there anyway.

How is Waggling your tits at the uppers in a bid for promotion any different then what has been going on at SOE for I don't know..an age now? Anyone who's been around the "community" or the guide program knows that before you even get accepted :P It's retarded and not right but it happens. Call it practice for your intro into the adult industry. Only if you did something like this in the porn industry well they would videotape it and call it a fetish.

This one is a moron. I feel bad for her. Really. You sad, gamer porn girl #234,789,00000000000000001.

This one gets no sympathy from me.

People who think that endemic sexual harrassment is somehow the fault of the victims are the morons.

And.. how is she not a moron?

I understand the difference here. Point is. Bitching about using sexuality to get ahead and then going forth and using it as your source of income makes your point null and void.

Nope. The porn industry does not generally involve constant sexual harrassment. There's a difference between getting the tits oot for the lads and having to sleep with the boss to get ahead.

Yea, sorry Schild, I have to agree with Signe here, the two are not related, and shouldn't be.

Quote from: El Gallo on December 07, 2005, 07:01:43 AM

Though my first thought after reading this was that I wanted to see Koster's 65-page manual on how to be a good CSR, which means I've been hanging out here far too long.

That was my second thought. My first thought was that it was about twice as long as was interesting.

I'll disagree that there's no difference between girls who shake their tits for promotions and girls who manage their own pr0n sites. The former would appeal to bottoms; the latter to tops. Different people use different methods.

I do wonder at how a person can be so seemingly worldly but actually be quite naive. I've never worked for SOE, but the behavior described doesn't surprise me in the least. The company culture at SOE strikes me (as an outsider) as being rife with corrupt practices insofar as how the employees are treated - just look at how the customers are treated. Why would a person not stop to think that maybe something is rotten at the top tier?

(Clearly, I have better things to do right now that I'm avoiding...)

The original poster didn't say that the girl who got the promotion by shaking her tatas actually slept with anyone. She just said that tata shaker was a flirt. Guess what? Flirts often get the attention of male bosses whether or not they suck at their job. As a matter of fact, without giving any poontang at all, flirts can generally get all kinds of perks and favors just because they are HAWT. When you start talking about an office full of geeks, double that. It isn't sexual harrassment, because it isn't like it goes anywhere. But I have seen it.

We had a few hawt women work at my ad agency a few years ago as account execs. They were hawt, one of which was smoking hawt. I'm not being a pig, or exaggerating, this woman was just attractive. Neither one of them was particularly good at their job. One of them was really bad (or at least took on all the bad habits of her immediate supervisor, who also sucks). Neither got fired. The smoking hawt one could call our sys admin (who was happily married and faithful) and get whatever she wanted immediately, whereas other people in the office would call him and either get voicemail or get put on the backburner.

Yes, it sucks. But people respond to flirting especially men. I ain't saying it's right, but it's the way of things. And none of those are things that get people arrested, fired or sued.

As for this whole posting, /meh. More juicy, stupid Internet gossip shit that'll be forgotten in a month. Or less.

And when it comes to community management, I got a clue for all you motherfuckers working that job. Not only does it suck, but if you have the SLIGHTEST bit of moral compunctions about lying to someone, YOU ARE IN THE WRONG MOTHERFUCKING JOB, DICKHEAD. Public relations (which is what community management is all about) is nothing more than finding the right lies to tell people so they feel ok about giving you their money/vote now and in the future. It is managing truth in such a way that it's palatable to the general public. The people doing it have NO MORALS ABOUT THEIR JOB WHATSOEVER, though they may otherwise be fine people. If you can't handle telling a lie, YOU SHOULD NOT BE IN PUBLIC RELATIONS.

See? Just like I've said all along... MMOs suck. Inside, outside, upside down, with boobies, without boobies... suck.

I'm not entirely sure why we play such evil sucky things.

Because we like boobies?

You love boobies. All of them. I cry.

Jebus... how many boobies do you have?

Quote from: HaemishM on December 07, 2005, 09:40:32 AM

Because we like boobies?

we have a weener
Clicky

Quote from: Soln on December 07, 2005, 09:49:11 AM

Quote from: HaemishM on December 07, 2005, 09:40:32 AM

Because we like boobies?

we have a weener
Clicky

Keep it in your trousers, Sunshine.

The two things are completely related - how? Because she obviously doesn't have the....ahem... assets to shake for her boss at SOE or wherever so she went into the porn industry where everyone gets off to *something.* I'm more interested in who this person who got the raises was so I can judge for myself if it was titty shaking that got her the raises or if competing with little miss goth w/ the mindset of a 13 year old just wasn't very rough competition.

She has enough assets to shake them if she wanted. She just didn't want to. She shouldn't have to, but human beings don't do very well at that idealized state of being thing.

Ya know, this is capitalism. You go with what works. Even if it's a bit ethically shady.

She sure looks like she has titties enough to shake if she wanted to stoop to that sort of thing. I see the porn industry and the gaming industry as the same thing... they're both industries. No one should have to work in an atmosphere that mandates if you will not please your boss in ways that are outside the scope of your job, you won't progress as far as someone who does. It's unethical and illegal. Just because people and places like that exist, "ethically shady" as you put it, doesn't mean we should accept it. I have no idea what it's like to work at SOE. If this is common knowledge, I guess I never paid much attention. If I were to get a job there, I would not only be surprised, I would be shocked. Hopefully that doesn't make me an idiot or a moron... I don't think I am.

I don't know, schild... sometimes I get the impression you have very little respect for women.

You just said it, right there. It's unethical and illegal. Hence the reason I don't believe it. I'm attacking it because the whole situation obviously got a little sand in the wrong place. But in reality, I think she didn't get the promotions because she didn't do things in the right corporate way and they went with someone a little more morally flexible when it came to dealing with people on the forums. I can't say I disagree.

Maybe it's not true... I have no idea. Your comments, however, went beyond whether she is truthful or not. You made generalised statements regarding work ethics and morality. You said this:

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And this:

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Ya know, this is capitalism. You go with what works. Even if it's a bit ethically shady.

These are not really the sort of comments to reassure people that one is a person of good character. Maybe you're just being funny or snarky or whatever, but if you actually believe those comments, it makes me sort of sad. This whole country is based on capitalism, which isn't the sort of thing that inspires huge amounts of ethic behaviour, but I know for a fact that there are companies that make sure the work environment is decent. The ones that don't, the "shady" ones, should be forced to change.

I'm pretty sure that if you get passed up for a promotion solely because someone else shook her tits at the boss, and you can actually demonstrate that (e.g. you can dig up your performance reviews and show that you're obviously better qualified for the job than the tit-shaker), you've got grounds for a lawsuit.

I had to sit through sexual harassment training at work last week and one of the topics covered was the importance of avoiding even the appearance of giving preferential treatment because of sexual favors, since it opens the doors to all sorts of trouble.

Well, I could be idealistic and just, you know, agree. But that would be far too easy and unlike me. And I'm not much of an idealist.

So I'm not sure what makes you sad, me believing that the world isn't peaches and cream or that companies may actually do this sort of shit on a regular basis?

At the end of all this it seems more and more obvious to me that this girl didn't get promotions and whatnot simply because she was annoying. I know nothing about her, I don't think I've ever interacted with her or read any of her posts on the SOE forums, but after reading that blog post she annoyed the hell out of me. I can't imagine what dealing with her on an everyday basis would be like. In other words: I don't believe her tale of woe.

In my office, it's not boobs but hair color. Blondes (even bottled blondes) never get yelled at no matter how badly they fuck up.

I was finger waggling sad at you because it sounded as if you were complacent. If you're not, I'll cheer up. If you are, I'll give you such a pince... someday.

Quote from: Signe on December 07, 2005, 10:57:29 AM

I was finger waggling sad at you because it sounded as if you were complacent. If you're not, I'll cheer up. If you are, I'll give you such a pince... someday.

Maybe at the annual F13 picnic?

I hope it's as good as the one they had last year.

We have to convince them to bring the lime jello again.

Jello.

Quote from: Signe on December 07, 2005, 11:25:21 AM

I hope it's as good as the one they had last year.

Someday I'll get an invitation... someday... maybe...

Yes, lime jello is the only flavour I'll wrestle in. Try and convince schild that a cocktail weenie on a Ritz is NOT a grilled hotdog.

You don't want to go through the invitation ritual, Soukyan. I still can't wipe the image from my eyes or get the taste out of my mouth.

Yeah, that bleachy taste sticks with ya the whole day.