Age Of Conan

[stray]

Yeah, but they're still pretty quiet on what exactly the PvP rules are. When they mention the seige system, they tout it as fighting against A.I.  Maybe fun in it's own right, but if they're going through all the trouble of designing a decent seige and combat system only to be used for cooperative battle, then I'm going to have to laugh a bit.

Unless I'm reading it wrong?

[Stormwaltz]

I've learned more about the books in this thread than about the game, and it was unexpectedly interesting. Thanks, Stray.

[Jamiko]

I wonder what effect if any this will have on the game?

THQ, Paradox Entertainment and Conan Properties International announced a worldwide, multi-year licensing agreement for games based on Conan. The agreement covers development for all current and next-gen systems as well as PC, wireless and handheld platforms.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1573&Itemid=2

[DevilsAdvocate]

Stray makes a good point.

Why use an established license with backstory and nuance to make a game that has little to nothing to do with that backstory except using similar graphics and ideas?

Sure mechanics can be amazingly awesome, but why not use your own ideas on the backstory, like Warcraft does, to build it the way you want it. Then you are master of the Lore and can make it match the mechanics you want to implement.

Like a Star Wars game without Jedi or space combat, it seems doomed to fail to the fans. The fans of the franchise are going to be the early adopters and if they see a generic game that ignores many of the subtleties of the franchise, they are going to be turned off, regardless of the actual mechanics.

The only reason I can think that you would really need to use the franchise instead of calling it Barbarians: The Chopping is that your ideas are based on that franchise and may legally be seen as derivative and you would have to share the loot. To head off the Marvel Comics v. NCSoft sort of lawsuit before it happens.

I'm wondering when the all-pvp, all the time game called Highlander is going to be made. Level up chopping down the noobs while every K0nn3R in the game yells out "There can b only 1!!21!!1!"

[Nija]

Stray makes a good point.

Why use an established license with backstory and nuance to make a game that has little to nothing to do with that backstory except using similar graphics and ideas?

Why do people who make arcade shooters spend years correctly modeling ww2 weapons, locations, outfits, vehicles, etc? At the end it just ends up being bunnyhopping bullshit, huge crosshairs, glowing icons over enemies heads, etc etc etc.

I'm not being sarcastic! I'd really like to know. "Some people think that arcade combat is fun and that's why they like those games!" Sure, nice fucking argument random made up person, but wouldn't be better if they created their own world, their own backstory, and their own conflict?

That's the thing that bugs me the most about big name franchises being used to make mmorpg games. I just know that Middle Earth online is going to be dumber than SWG. That's a bold statement too; SWG is very dumb.

Turbine needs to go back to REWTZ, and that's Asheron's Call. Their own made up shit. Hey, look how AC1 turned out. Who did Turbine answer to when they made that? Didn't they make the game and get scooped up by MS? Who shoved AC2 out the door? Who is the driving force behind D&DO? (I don't know, it might be Turbine and if so - I'm disappointed as most people know) Who is going to be the RULE CHECKER when it comes time to work on MEO? Is it even called that anymore, or is it something like "Peter Jackson - Hobbits and Other Awful Shit That Should Not be Portrayed in Online Worlds"? Anyways, so far the only thing Turbine did that was A++ would play again is early AC1. Matty robes ONWARD, downhill. "Game is too complex guys you need to make it accessable to the 80 IQ xenophobes. Yeah take those buff spells that were balanced to have to be cast on 8 items and just give everyone a single item that covers all areas."

And that's Nija's weekly rant. Toss a few nickels in the hat, I'll be here for a few more hours.

[Velorath]

Stray makes a good point.

Why use an established license with backstory and nuance to make a game that has little to nothing to do with that backstory except using similar graphics and ideas?

Because most game developers aren't nearly as talented at writing as people like Howard or Tolkien?  Better to base a game around writing that's a thousand times better than anything they could come up with on their own, even if it has to be tweaked in order to make a balanced and entertaining game.  Hell just think of how many characters and how much backstory the Marvel and DC games have available to work with.  It gives the devs a basic starting point to go with rather than trying to come up with a bunch of shit from scratch before they can really begin development.

And as a side note I think MEO is pretty much vaporware at this point.

[Signe]

And as a side note I think MEO is pretty much vaporware at this point.

Is it?  Why?  Not that I mind all that much... I'm sick to death of elves.

[Hoax]

I agree with what your saying, but the fact is this license pickup is doubly stupid.  The only thing they can expect the avg gamer to be even remotely familiar with is Arnold the Barbarian.  Like I said earlier though if they can do a robot jesus impression with the mechanics they can shit on whatever license they want.    except battltech you fuckers its been through enough!

[Velorath]

And as a side note I think MEO is pretty much vaporware at this point.

Is it?  Why?  Not that I mind all that much... I'm sick to death of elves.

Just a hunch really based on past delays, changes in the MMO market, and the fact that they've long since missed the chance to capitalize on the success of the movies.  Reading the web page, I don't get a sense of any sort of hook that makes this game different from any other fantasy MMO other than the license, and in the post-WoW market I think it would be financial suicide to release this game and hope fans of the license keep it afloat (we've seen how well that's worked out for SWG and Matrix Online).

Much like when Warhammer was canceled, I wouldn't be suprised to see bean counters take a closer look at the development costs and compare them to the probable numbers this game will get, and decide it's not worth it.

[Velorath]

I agree with what your saying, but the fact is this license pickup is doubly stupid.  The only thing they can expect the avg gamer to be even remotely familiar with is Arnold the Barbarian.  Like I said earlier though if they can do a robot jesus impression with the mechanics they can shit on whatever license they want.    except battltech you fuckers its been through enough!

I don't predict the game to be a huge success.  If they can get sieges and PVP right though without sb.exe type issues I think they could probably decent subscriber base.  I think the thing about the Conan license is that people at least recognize it as sort of a fantasy type world without all the elves, halflings, and fireball tossing wizards.  The general populace knows it's more of a brute force style setting rather than Tolkien-style fantasy, even if they don't know the particulars of the stories.

[DevilsAdvocate]

I agree with what your saying, but the fact is this license pickup is doubly stupid.  The only thing they can expect the avg gamer to be even remotely familiar with is Arnold the Barbarian.  Like I said earlier though if they can do a robot jesus impression with the mechanics they can shit on whatever license they want.    except battltech you fuckers its been through enough!

I don't predict the game to be a huge success.  If they can get sieges and PVP right though without sb.exe type issues I think they could probably decent subscriber base.  I think the thing about the Conan license is that people at least recognize it as sort of a fantasy type world without all the elves, halflings, and fireball tossing wizards.  The general populace knows it's more of a brute force style setting rather than Tolkien-style fantasy, even if they don't know the particulars of the stories.

If we are to assume that the information presented earlier in this thread as far as the 4 classes is correct and that what you have explained about what people recognize in the license is correct, there is already going to be problems with the game as Stray has pointed out.

When the developers start taking liberties with the license to balance it for gameplay and fun, they seem to not care that it messes with what people expect from the world. Seems like it sparks that whole game vs. world debate again.

[Margalis]

Meh, Conan is pretty much all name recognition. Although the "problems" with the setting are overblown.

Conan stories don't have wizards all over the place. True. But then again, in crappy D&D novels very few of the characters are wizards either, and I don't hear anyone saying "but a wizard like Raistlin should only be like 1/1000 people!"

In any fantasy setting the vast majority of people are peasants, pig farmers and such. MMORPGs make everyone the exception, because playing a pig farmer is not fun. The population of WoW is 99% adventurers - that make any sense to anyone? It doesn't and it's not supposed to. Aren't there people in the WoW universe who just stay home and raise kids? Apparently not.

What I would hope for in Conan is that they stay true to the general tenets of the stories - darker and grittier than elves wearing pink dresses, no Orcs and Dwarves and that tired shit. A gloomy, baudy atmosphere. Anything else is just icing. Asking for the proper ratio of spell casters to adventurers is silly because no game makes any attempt to portray an actual society realistically.

For most people the Conan name is nothing more than some movies involving a guy with a big sword or a comic book they've glanced at. It's not a license I would pay a lot for, and hopefully they didn't. There doesn't seem to be much point other than "Age of Conan" sounds better than "Age of Bob". But hopefully some of the people are actually Conan fans, that is why they went after the license, and the game will reflect their respect for the material at least a little bit.

----

I agree that MEO is probably close to dead. It has been a long time without any press, and it doesn't appear to offer much of anything interesting. The world of Middle Earth is pretty damn close to WoW already - you have your elves, dwarves, etc. I don't think the world needs another fantasy MMORPG right now that doesn't bring anything new to the table. At least Vanguard will appeal to a somewhat different audience. Who does MEO appeal to?

I do feel sorry for the Matrix guys though - I'm sure at the time the license sounded like a great idea. How were they to know that the 2nd and 3rd film would basically obliterate the Matrix name?

[Hoax]

I feel sorry for them because they designed a pretty unique game but they didn't design it well.  I wanted to like it but it couldn't even get passed the "does the game work?" phase of my MMO testing regimen.

[Margalis]

The Matrix is actually a really nice setting for a MMORPG. You can have a FFXI type of "job system" and just explain it away as downloading new programs. The thing I never understood though is who are the enemies? I think that is one thing fantasy games have going for them. You can put the head of a billy goat on the body of a hippo, call it a Goappo, and put it in your game. (I hereby declare to have invented the Goappo and will agressively prosecute anyone who steals my creation) Plus there are tons of standard monsters to choose from. Fantasy creatures, overgrown crocodiles, rabid raccoons, etc.

In a game like the Matrix who are you fighting exactly? All humanoids with just different abilities? It sees like fighting agents and other humanoids all the time would get old. And you can't just go and throw in a Goappo without it being a bit odd.

Anyone who has played care to elaborate a bit on that?

[stray]

Well, I haven't played since Beta, but I would assume that not all of the Merovingians would be strictly humanoid (if you remember from the films, the Merovingian, when he had the job of overseer of the Matrix, shaped it into a world where all kinds of fucked up creatures roamed around. Vampires, werewolves, aliens, etc..).

[Sunbury]

They just announced playable classes in Lords of the Rings Online:

http://lotro.turbine.com/index.php?page_id=109

Most interesting part: No mages.   I guess they are trying to stay true to Tolkien lore.  Or they are trying to build a lead balloon.

[Signe]

It's funny.  We were chatting about MEO about six months or so ago here and then it just all stopped and I've not thought much about the game since.  I think the last thing posted was the name change.  Cal or someone would stop in and say things about the game but even he stopped commenting.  Other games have posted little blurbs of news right up to the day they announce the closing and it wouldn't really surprise me, I guess.  Maybe all their focus is aimed at DDO right now, though I think that might be a mistake.  After all, EVERYONE AND THEIR GRANDMOTHER has seen those Hobbit movies, but only some geeks play D&D... right? 

I wouldn't be surprised at any game closing anymore... AC2, SWG, MEO... everything that isn't WoW seems to be having at least some worries.  Since WoW it appears people have raised their expectations and I'm not sure game companies have reacted the same yet.  Maybe these theme games, and there seem to be quite a few on the horizon, are just a bad idea.  Star Wars, Star Trek, LotR, Conan... we have pictures already in our heads.  Something like WoW has never been anything but a game world.  DDO might have a chance, always having been some sort of game, but I don't think it's going to be easy.  They have some weird rule set they HAVE to follow or alienate what is probably their target audience. 

[Merusk]

MEO has Hunters. They didn't call them Rangers, I suppose because only Aragorn's followers were "Rangers" per se.  If there's one thing I can thank WOW for it's that fantasy MMOs from here on out will have a melee/ ranged hybred that actually does ranged damage.  Hoo-fucking-ray.  Nothing pissed me off more than playing EQ and discovering my Ranger was a melee gimp.

[Hoax]

You ever play a Champion at launch in DAOC that has to be the most terrible light tank hybrid ever...  I still have the mental scars on my fucking brain from being that gimped.

@Margalis:  That was part of MxO's problem, the sights and sounds of the game were not impressive.  I like urban landscapes, but if your whole game is urban you better make sure you dont repeat your textures a bunch of times.  There should have been more parks, more water, more variety.  It was a decent game visually you could turn on cars and pedestrians to really make the game world seem to hum around  you.  But the way npc's were was SOO STUPID basically each area had several gang spawns.  Each gang had a stupid name, and dropped some stupid items that collector npc's would give u something for.  Yeah, umm ok?  It was grind those assholes, or the Mero-guys who were in this static dungeons ploped all over the place.  Oh and you could grind contact missions that illustrated how NOT to create random content, think AO's missions but fucking worse.

Really I dont know what they did while they were in development so long.  Create interlock combat?  But not even give it enough animations or perfect the system.  Oh wait, they didn't even make it not lag to shit and look stupid 75% of the time.

[Merusk]

Urban maps just make me stabby.  The way buildings interact and the lack of access for services, utillities, loading docks and parking concerns just underscore that the people creating the maps are just geeks and artists who think they know what goes into a city.  It really stands out to anyone with some kind of understanding of buildings and planning, but it niggles at the back of everyone's minds as visible by the comments made about urban maps.

Map builders would be better-served just ripping wholesale parts of cities and modeling them than trying to create a 'believable' city.. and with some of the larger cities it'd be easy to rip-out pieces that very few people would recognize.   Then just tweak and balance the map from there.

[Sky]

"Level designers" are usually very very bad at making any kind of believable urban map. One of the worst is, albeit a good game, Bloodlines.

[HaemishM]

They just announced playable classes in Lords of the Rings Online:

http://lotro.turbine.com/index.php?page_id=109

Most interesting part: No mages.   I guess they are trying to stay true to Tolkien lore.  Or they are trying to build a lead balloon.

Wow.

So we have 3 flavors of melee tank, one of whom sounds like a non-healing paladin (Captain), one of whom is a straight taunt machine and one of whom is a weapons master type. Then we have a Ranger, excuse me HUNTER, and a rogue, excuse me BURGLAR, who is of course not a fucking thief but a backstabbing assassin. Great. We got your bard, the buffer and general bitchbot of the lot and the Loremaster, who will be the rarest and most sought after class for groups, as he will not only be the only healer, he'll also be the only blaster.

The Loremaster does sound interesting, but the cynic in me can't help but map these classes onto the typical unoriginal holy 4 of the MMOG design book.

[Righ]

Prediction: the 'gameplay' bores will be more disappointed with this game than the 'lore' bores. Anybody who thinks this is going to be the panacea for virtual hooliganism is going to fall as flat on their faces as schild did with SW:G NGE.

[Shockeye]

typical unoriginal holy 4 of the MMOG design book

I'm really sick of that book.

[WayAbvPar]

typical unoriginal holy 4 of the MMOG design book

I'm really sick of that book.

Yeah, I think that one is deserving of the Farenheit 451 treatment.

I like the lore-ish names of the classes that LotRO is using, but Haemish is right (as usual)- not much, if any innovation there.

[Hoax]

I find it innovative that there is no PvP in a game setting that is being ripped apart by a struggle between light and darkness with the very fate of the world is at stake.  But I'm just a stupid griefer so ignore me...

[Soln]

I find it innovative that there is no PvP in a game setting that is being ripped apart by a struggle between light and darkness with the very fate of the world is at stake.  But I'm just a stupid griefer so ignore me...

I noticed that too.  Also, no crafting?  The lack of PvP with an advanced twitch combat system is odd. 

[Glazius]

Urban maps just make me stabby.  The way buildings interact and the lack of access for services, utillities, loading docks and parking concerns just underscore that the people creating the maps are just geeks and artists who think they know what goes into a city.  It really stands out to anyone with some kind of understanding of buildings and planning, but it niggles at the back of everyone's minds as visible by the comments made about urban maps.

Map builders would be better-served just ripping wholesale parts of cities and modeling them than trying to create a 'believable' city.. and with some of the larger cities it'd be easy to rip-out pieces that very few people would recognize.   Then just tweak and balance the map from there.

How do you feel about the zone design in CoH and CoV?

--GF

[stray]

It has a nice vertical landscape...

Down below, it's not exactly bare bones, nor is it detailed enough. Kind of nice if you don't glance too close. Some things stand out though: How many cars varieties are there? Where are the services (except one big police station in each zone, I can't think of anything else)?  Why is there a freeway running through some zones but not others? Why is there basically one restaurant spread about the entire city ("El Super Mexicano").

I'm joking on that last one...I think there's more....But still, not enough.

GTA does an urban setting 20 times better, and even that isn't the greatest.

[edit] And btw, I'm not saying "OMG CoH sucks!!" or anything like that. Out of Mmog's at least, it does the urban setting better than everything else.

[Sky]

Man, I love the GTA. Any urban landscape you can't drive through and jump over stuff is always going to pale in comparison.

[Merusk]

How do you feel about the zone design in CoH and CoV?

What stray said about verticality holds true for me.  It's beautiful to see a highway actually going across the top of some buildings.  Buildings with different massings, soaring verticality and differing heights to form a skyline.  You can tell someone had at least an understanding of cities.

  As far as actual buildings and urbanscape, however, it doesn't quite make it.  While the buildings all meet the sky wonderfuly they fail at the ground level.  The skyscapers all have these huge plazas but no means for trucks, semis, etc to get to them and deliver goods.  There are no allys, allyways and back lots with the mess and chaos that makes a building and a city actually work.  Parking and parking structures I can ignore, because who wants to model a 3-story below ground structure.  But there are dead-ends, hidey-holes and "Backs" to most building masses.  COH is lacking in these.

[stray]

Tony Hawk games do the best urban landscapes imo (as cartoony as they can sometimes be).

[JoeTF]

"Level designers" are usually very very bad at making any kind of believable urban map. One of the worst is, albeit a good game, Bloodlines.

Actually, I prefer urban map that is player comfortable. That is, I prefer Q4 where you just can't get lost, over F.E.A.R pseudo-realistic silliness.
If they wanted to make realistic map, they would have to take care for realistic player interaction first. It's totally ridiculous when triad-rocket launcher armed commando can't get past plaster cube wall, not to mention things as fragile as window curtains (F.E.A.R, I'm looking at you!). Want realistic urban map - fine, but I want to be able to break thru every wall, squeeze through every hole, open/break every door and jump/climb through every fence!

[AOFanboi]

New trailers up. Sure makes it look sexy. Though a bit dark.

[JoeTF]

Ok, watched it.
They finally added blood! You can all see how sucky it was without blood.
Now, they're talking about groundbreaking graphic, WHY NOT RELEASE HI-DEF TRAILER? Can't afford hosting 70 mb file? Even Earth Simulator can't run it in 1280x1024? Nero encoder too hard too handle?

Seriously, I demand HI-DEF trailer. We got PCs and broadbands to download, you have bandwith to release it. 480 x 272 trailers we're good 10 years ago, why the hell force us to watch 5 times shrinked video of your gameplay. PO released full HD trailers and they got GREAT publicity for that! You claim groundbreaking grahpic, so why won't you show them to us?