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Author Topic: Patch Notes for Nov. 3rd Update  (Read 10966 times)
Signe
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Reply #35 on: November 07, 2005, 12:11:35 PM

You have so many friends that you can't even remember their names.  I have four friends and they all live in another country.   cry

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WayAbvPar
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Reply #36 on: November 07, 2005, 12:27:52 PM

I will be your friend, if only so you can say you have one in this country. Of course, you are probably closer to the friends in the UK than to me (we are a continent apart), but it is the best I can do for now. I ain't moving to New Jersey.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
Signe
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Reply #37 on: November 07, 2005, 02:34:21 PM

We won't be in New Jersy much longer.  We both dislike it.  We're only moving about an hour and a half away but at least I have some family in PA.  We'll probably be out of the US within the next two years, though.  Thanks for being my friend.  Have some damn fine virtual apple pie!




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Samwise
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Reply #38 on: November 07, 2005, 02:35:15 PM

Move to the Bay Area!  You'll like it here, I promise.  Everyone does.  Which is why it costs an arm and a leg.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Signe
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Reply #39 on: November 07, 2005, 02:45:59 PM

You just want us to move there so you can use me for my pie.

I'm on to you.

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Samwise
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Reply #40 on: November 07, 2005, 03:42:55 PM

mmm... pie...

I mean, no!

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
WayAbvPar
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Reply #41 on: November 09, 2005, 12:33:27 PM

After all this discussion, I totally forgot about the event last night. I wasted my time watching the Sonics score all of 69 points instead. GodDAMN it!

Anything interesting occur?

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
Signe
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Reply #42 on: November 09, 2005, 12:38:05 PM

I also forgot.   :-(

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Samwise
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Reply #43 on: November 09, 2005, 12:50:31 PM

I logged on hoping to score one of those beta keys for a friend, but no luck.

I was also reminded of why I'm not doing the Miller's Quest again until they fix the XP.  Razzafrazzin metal dogs and 41 XP to show for it.   angry

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Signe
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Reply #44 on: November 09, 2005, 12:58:27 PM

Yes, the xp stuff is very discouraging.  It's still somewhat enjoyable, but it's much less motivating.  I don't think they're done sorting out xp, though... God, I hope they're not done!

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Sky
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Reply #45 on: November 09, 2005, 01:20:43 PM

Laundry night, totally forgot  undecided

Calandryll
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Reply #46 on: November 09, 2005, 07:43:22 PM

XP and advancement will be tweaked as the beta progresses. We'll be asking for community feedback as well as looking at our own tracking metrics.
Samwise
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Reply #47 on: November 09, 2005, 07:47:36 PM

My main request with regards to XP, for what it's worth, is that repeating quests not be necessary to advance in levels.  (I.E. if each level 1 quest grants 500 XP to a party whose highest level member is level 1, there should be 20 unique level 1 quests; if there are only 10 unique level 1 quests, they should give an average of 1000 XP apiece.)

Probably too much to hope for to have 20 glorious handcrafted quests for each level, but I can dream.   smiley

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Sky
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Reply #48 on: November 10, 2005, 09:32:55 AM

Until I heard about people pharming quests, I didn't even know you could repeat them, it never occurred to me. Seems silly.

HaemishM
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Reply #49 on: November 10, 2005, 10:17:01 AM

It IS silly, but so are most MMOG players and their behaviour patterns.

XP is going to be a SERIOUS issue for this game. It still moves way too slow at the early levels. Though I understand that the game is not meant to be like other MMOG's, the ding factor is real low at the early stages. It feels like you have to do a whole lot before you get anything of note in the game, including raising HP, getting new skills, etc.

Samwise
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Reply #50 on: November 10, 2005, 11:46:04 AM

I'm with you, Sky, I assumed initially that quests would be nonrepeatable.  But I'm pretty sure it's currently impossible to make it to level 2 without either repeating some level 1 quests or doing all the level 2 quests in a big group (which then leaves you with no level 2 quests you haven't done already when you do hit level 2, et cetera, so the problem gets steadily worse).  Doing the entire newbie area (including the Goodblade quests in the port) gets you to just shy of 4,000 XP.  Once you've done those, about two thirds of the remaining level 1 quests are either buggy (uncompletable) or yield negligible XP (50 or so).

I have confidence that the other level 1 quests will be fixed so they're at least worth doing, but I'm still concerned that we're going to end up having to repeat them to some extent regardless.

I don't mind at all if it takes a week or two or three to level, as long as I'm always doing something new.  (Dings in PnP are pretty few and far between in my experience, but if you're having fun the whole time, who cares?)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2005, 11:48:09 AM by Samwise »

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
WayAbvPar
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Reply #51 on: November 10, 2005, 12:36:56 PM

Here's an idea- for the low level stuff (when the dings aren't going at a rapid pace), why not give the characters some sort of storyline progression? Maybe doing quests for their guild of choice, or for the government or something? Have the characters gain rank in whatever organization they prefer (or multiple organizations, even), just to give them some extra gratification? Insignia to wear, a small salary, recognition from NPCS, titles, or other non-gamebreaking rewards could be offered.

Morrowind had a lot of this- there were many different organizations to join and progress in..made it interesting.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
Samwise
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Reply #52 on: November 10, 2005, 02:04:45 PM

A faction system would be neat.  Would require a LOT of extra content though, if you need a separate line of quests for each possible faction.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #53 on: November 10, 2005, 04:26:28 PM

A faction system would be neat.  Would require a LOT of extra content though, if you need a separate line of quests for each possible faction.

I think they have already tried to approach this via the various "Houses" in Stormreach.  For example, House Kundasomething is the house of healing in has paladin, cleric trainers and quests that seem undead heavy.  There the fighters house for fighters, rangers, barbs and pallys, and "entertainers" house for bards, roguies, a magic house for wizs and sorc etc etc.

You can do story arc quest strings to earn lower prices from vendors of a certain house.  I had started two house arcs before the last wipe, not sure how far they take it.

Xilren

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Samwise
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Reply #54 on: November 10, 2005, 04:29:46 PM

Hm.  I didn't get quite that far before the last wipe - had started in on one of the houses but it seemed unfinished (couldn't find any quests and the map didn't work).  I guess some of them are done and some of them aren't?

Maybe I should stop dinking around with my 5 1st-level alts and focus on leveling up my angry dwarf...

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #55 on: November 10, 2005, 04:37:38 PM

Hm.  I didn't get quite that far before the last wipe - had started in on one of the houses but it seemed unfinished (couldn't find any quests and the map didn't work).  I guess some of them are done and some of them aren't?

Maybe I should stop dinking around with my 5 1st-level alts and focus on leveling up my angry dwarf...

BTW, I have a Dwarven Axe of Reptile Bane if you're interested smiley  And for some reason the bankers aren't working.

My wanting to see new quests is the big reason I've been trying to push up the leveling chain.  Made it to 4 pre-wipe and there were some interesting looking CR 5,6, and 7 quest I had gotten but not attempted yet.  The definitely appear to be lengthier...

Xilren
PS I did the Irestone Inlet quest as soon as I hit level 2 with a full group; made 4500 exp plus lots of loot when done.  That basically half of level 1 in a single 30 minute quest.   Can't imagine why people just repeat it over and over and over and over....


"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Samwise
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Reply #56 on: November 10, 2005, 04:50:16 PM

Gawd, maybe I should just swallow my pride and start grinding the inlet like everyone else.  It is fun in a mindless sort of way.  I just hate the feeling that I'm ignoring all of the actual good content.  (Then again, I've already seen all the content that's at my level, so I guess I shouldn't beat myself up too much.)

My angry dwarf has gotten really lucky on the bane weapons - I have reptilian, giant, and animal so far.  The last dungeon I did in a group had nothing but kobolds, troglodytes, trolls, and ogres, so I was consistently doing about three times as much damage as anyone else in the group.   :-D

Are there ooze bane weapons?  I hate those things with a passion.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #57 on: November 10, 2005, 04:57:06 PM

Gawd, maybe I should just swallow my pride and start grinding the inlet like everyone else.  It is fun in a mindless sort of way.  I just hate the feeling that I'm ignoring all of the actual good content.  (Then again, I've already seen all the content that's at my level, so I guess I shouldn't beat myself up too much.)

My angry dwarf has gotten really lucky on the bane weapons - I have reptilian, giant, and animal so far.  The last dungeon I did in a group had nothing but kobolds, troglodytes, trolls, and ogres, so I was consistently doing about three times as much damage as anyone else in the group.   :-D

Are there ooze bane weapons?  I hate those things with a passion.

Damn oozes have cost me 400gp plus in equipment repairs alone just in 4 days.  Hate hate hate em.

My cleric is wielding a undead Bane bastard sword now when needed.  Despite the non proficency penalty it's just too good not to use...

Xilren

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Samwise
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Reply #58 on: November 16, 2005, 12:31:25 PM

Stoney the Angry Dwarf found his new favorite weapon last night while redoing the Sanctuary - a +1 Invisible Greatclub of Ooze Bane.   Hulk Rock

Actually, I think the "invisible" part is a bug, but I don't care.  It makes oozes very dead.  On top of which, it's a +1 greatclub, so it makes other things dead as well.

I wish I could wear a sandwich board that says "LFG, HAVE OOZE BANE CLUB".  Everyone would want to be my friend!

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
WayAbvPar
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Reply #59 on: November 16, 2005, 12:33:19 PM

Since it is magic specifically against oozes, is it immune to the damage they do to normal weapons? That would be cool.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
Samwise
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Reply #60 on: November 16, 2005, 01:12:59 PM

I doubt it.  But it does do +2d6 against them, which means they die MUCH faster, so they have less time to chew on the weapon and make it fall apart.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Sobelius
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Reply #61 on: November 16, 2005, 02:41:59 PM

I doubt it.  But it does do +2d6 against them, which means they die MUCH faster, so they have less time to chew on the weapon and make it fall apart.

Being a bit D&D geeky here: I think oozes are more susceptible to blunt weapons and don't dissolve wood (or at least not as fast as metal). So sharp steel is least desireable against oozes, while wooden clubs of any variety should be highly effective.

Oozes, IM-GeekyD&D-HO,  are supposed to be the bane of fighters...

That said, an Ooze Bane weapon sounds like a cool idea I may drop into my pnp D&D game.

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
"A world without Vin Diesel is sad." -- me
Samwise
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Reply #62 on: November 16, 2005, 10:19:27 PM

Greatclubs are blunt and wooden, so that'd do it, then, assuming that they're following those rules.  It does seem like blunt weapons tend to do better against oozes (some of them divide into smaller oozes if hit with sharp weapons, per PnP rules), but I don't see any of the usual yellow "damage reduced" floaters so I'm not positive about that.

My video card died a violent death last night so I won't be getting a chance to test it out any time this week, unfortunately.   :-(

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Signe
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Reply #63 on: November 16, 2005, 10:29:29 PM

Get one of these GeForce 7800s... they've gone cheaper and they're the Strudel!  (or whatever that ebonics word for cool is)

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Samwise
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Reply #64 on: November 16, 2005, 11:24:41 PM

Getting a 6800GT for now - I'm not even sure if they make 7800s that would fit in this archaic AGP slot.   embarassed

Sometime next year I'll build a whole new system.  That one will be getting either two 6800s or one 7800 depending on where the prices have settled to by then.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Sobelius
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Reply #65 on: November 17, 2005, 05:46:28 AM

Greatclubs are blunt and wooden, so that'd do it, then, assuming that they're following those rules.  It does seem like blunt weapons tend to do better against oozes (some of them divide into smaller oozes if hit with sharp weapons, per PnP rules), but I don't see any of the usual yellow "damage reduced" floaters so I'm not positive about that.

Normally, the idea that a weapon does half damage to something (like sharp weapons might do to oozes), is not the definition of damage reduction in 3.5 DnD. Damage reduction is technically defined in 3.5 as how much damage is removed from any single damage roll done by a weapon that does not equal or exceed the "magic bonus or other quality" required. For example, a monster with +1/5 damage reduction can be hit with any weapon, but only +1 or greater weapons do full damage. Those less than +1 remove 5 points from the damage roll, so the yellow numbers you see are this reduction.

In old school D&D, back to 1st edition, if you didn't have a +1 weapon you could *never* do damage to the creature. I like the new way MUCH better, not because it requires more math in the PnP world, but because (speaking as a DM here) it allows players more options for attacking but also opens up all kinds of new ways to make monsters tougher without making them indestructible.

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
"A world without Vin Diesel is sad." -- me
WayAbvPar
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Reply #66 on: November 17, 2005, 11:16:03 AM

Quote
In old school D&D, back to 1st edition, if you didn't have a +1 weapon you could *never* do damage to the creature. I like the new way MUCH better, not because it requires more math in the PnP world, but because (speaking as a DM here) it allows players more options for attacking but also opens up all kinds of new ways to make monsters tougher without making them indestructible.

Is that a 3.5 rule, or was that in 3.0 as well? It makes a hell of a lot of sense, but I must have missed it (or more likely, forgotten about it...I am growing older and more decrepit and senile with each passing hour).

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
Sobelius
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Reply #67 on: November 17, 2005, 11:38:15 AM

It was in 3.0 as well but they've also done some tweaking to it in 3.5.

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
"A world without Vin Diesel is sad." -- me
Samwise
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Reply #68 on: November 17, 2005, 01:25:46 PM

I agree, I like damage reduction quite a bit more than complete immunity.  It means you can kill a wight with a nonmagical siege weapon.   :-D

I'm not quite sure how DDO implements it for things like skel's resistance to sharp weapons.  When you attack a skel with a sword, or a zombie with a mace, you frequently get little "0" damage floaters, color coded yellow, although you will sometimes do damage (those seem to correspond to non-zero yellow floaters).  I'm not sure whether it's dividing by 2 and rounding down or subtracting some flat number.  It doesn't really matter all that much.  "Edged weapons for zombies, blunt weapons for skeletons.  Got it."  I have fond memories of my first assault on the crypt with a sickle in one hand and a club in the other.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
WayAbvPar
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Reply #69 on: November 17, 2005, 01:33:06 PM

I was wondering about the edged v blunt weapons when fighting skeletons, namely- does the strength damage bonus get lowered as well? Logic seems that the an edged weapon damage would be mitigated, but the force of the blow behind the weapon would still carry over as damage; in other words, the damage should be (edged weapon rolled damage - damage penalty) + STR bonus = total damage done to target.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
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