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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming Conferences and Conventions  |  AGC '05  |  Topic: Day 1 - 3: Alcohol 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Day 1 - 3: Alcohol  (Read 42097 times)
d4rkj3di
Terracotta Army
Posts: 224


Reply #70 on: November 02, 2005, 03:26:35 PM

You HAVE TO watch EVERY SINGLE THING YOU SAY. You HAVE TO. Or you will be BEATEN WITH IT. And this is a large part of why most developers with sense stay the hell away from message boards. Because sane people only need to be burned once.
Once upon a time, Raph posted on the SWG boards that a direct representation of a player class's power was the number of skill points that one had to invest to become a Master.  Bounty Hunters used this quote for almost a year as a battle cry in their campaign to completely dominate other class combinations in PvP.

I know this because I was one of them.

As far as Blizzard having 10-15 Community Relations people, I think their number is closer to 4 that actively monitor the Forums.
SuperPopTart
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Posts: 990

I am damn cute for a stubby shortling.


Reply #71 on: November 03, 2005, 10:53:33 AM

From what I gather from what Haemish said about Poptart is that she doesn't feel the connect with the Dev's creating the games she's played because there has been very little show of connection between them.  My brother was a guide for years and his excitement for the game and helping out became apathy after awhile when it became apparent (at least to him) that the GMs and powers that be just didn't care.  


You know in fairness to how I react to games and their developers, I am fairly jaded in that I believe developers, designers and programmers feel that once they create the product, it's in the hands of the CSR's, Guides and GM's to really get things going community wise. And that never happens, or almost never happens. I feel it is the responsibility of those above the CSR's, Guides and GM's to see that more community based interaction with the "world" as a whole is implemented instead of wasted and I can barely think of a game out there that utilizes truly their player base. This annoys me to no end.

With respect to SOE, as a former guide I can tell you their CSR and the way the handle their players is awful, my first instinct was to type the word bullshit to describe but I hate swearing. Beyond petitions and the random holiday based event that has been repeated over years and years they NEVER interacted with the players beyond spooking people as invisible beings, or trying to impress the random player with generic Guide ability. The ONLY Guide I know of that was the exception to this rule was Mennix. And he was fantastic. He just totally knew it. Got it. And people loved him, mourning him when he went away. I was only a player when he was on our server but years later he is still fresh in my memory and THOSE are the kind of experiences I think one such as myself looks for when seeking out a game. He made it fun, he let us communicate with him and he was responsive.

Most of the GM's and Guides never do that. Never did that. Most of them are chloroformed by these rules that just don't need to exist. And the responsibility to see that community and powers interact does not just fall on the heads of the servers, it falls on the developers, the programmers, the designers, the QA people and everyone else that is responsible for the implementation of ideas. And while someone mentioned disconnects, there is a huge disconnect there.

I'd love to know how many of you developers out there actively play your own game, for more then just an hour a week and if you REALLY interact with people in your own game's community.

I am Super, I am a Pop Tart.
HaemishM
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Reply #72 on: November 03, 2005, 02:14:39 PM

Mennix kicked all kinds of ass. I still remember the time he showed up as a dragon-sized halfling.

schild
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Reply #73 on: November 03, 2005, 02:20:32 PM

SPT, why are you using red italics?  undecided
Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #74 on: November 03, 2005, 02:29:31 PM

Doesn't that mean quoting someone you wish was beeding out of their eyes ears and mouth?  Or am I thinking of another forum.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Shockeye
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Reply #75 on: November 03, 2005, 02:41:40 PM

Doesn't that mean quoting someone you wish was beeding out of their eyes ears and mouth?  Or am I thinking of another forum.

I don't want anyone bleeding out of their eyes here. Think of the cleanup!
Cheddar
I like pink
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Noob Sauce


Reply #76 on: November 03, 2005, 02:47:03 PM

You do NOT want to be a janitor around here; this is the only mop they provide.


No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
SuperPopTart
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I am damn cute for a stubby shortling.


Reply #77 on: November 03, 2005, 02:51:11 PM

SPT, why are you using red italics?  undecided


I'll be serious. Simply because when so many people respond it records everyone's quotes and that means I have to go back through and pick out the quote I was meaning to quote.

So I just cut, copy, make red and italic. It works for me. I'll keep doing it.

I am Super, I am a Pop Tart.
Rasix
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Posts: 14109

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Reply #78 on: November 03, 2005, 03:13:12 PM


I'll be serious. Simply because when so many people respond it records everyone's quotes and that means I have to go back through and pick out the quote I was meaning to quote.

So I just cut, copy, make red and italic. It works for me. I'll keep doing it.

Ohh dear.  Hammy, talk to your wifey. Tell her the story of "StGabe, the boy that wouldn't play along".

-Rasix
Samwise
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Reply #79 on: November 03, 2005, 03:22:49 PM

Red italics aren't quite as bad as italics on their own.  At least they stand out visually instead of blending into the reply.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Rasix
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I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #80 on: November 03, 2005, 03:27:20 PM

You don't value my sanity, do you?

-Rasix
Samwise
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Reply #81 on: November 03, 2005, 03:41:54 PM

You don't value my sanity, do you?

Not as such, no.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Sachant
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Reply #82 on: November 03, 2005, 04:28:20 PM


I'd love to know how many of you developers out there actively play your own game, for more then just an hour a week and if you REALLY interact with people in your own game's community.

We just had a bane last night and kicked some butt. :)  I don't get to play as much as I'd like but then again I spend a lot of time talking to players on the forums and out of game both.  I'm not a whole lot more than support but I do what I can to foster the best of the community.

Sachant
Bartle Test Killer  73% , Socializer  60%, Explorer  60%, Achiever  6%
Bunk
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Reply #83 on: November 03, 2005, 05:59:40 PM

This is quite the impressive thread.

 - interesting discussion
 - heated arguments
 - someone here actually saying something negative at Lum  shocked
 - PopTart appears to have invented a new way to SirBruce someone
 - Sachant survived saying sb.exe without Crotchpheasants exploding everywhere

Fun stuff.

To contribute I'll ask a question regarding the whole player/dev communication thing. Has anyone ever looked at the numbers of what percentage of an MMo's players actually ever visit and post on community boards? Its always seemed to me that most boards are filled with the same type of people that frequent the info sites like Startics, Thottbot, Alakazheem - namely the power gamers and min maxers. Personally, I've always felt that the general opinions of "the boards" tended to be a little skewed, since they really don't include the opinions of the casual gamer that just wants to have fun playing the game.

I really don't give a shit about reaching 60, or having my class perfectly balanced in pvp, or feeling nerfed. I also don't post about the games I play for the same reason - I don't care about these minute details, I just want the game to be fun. As a result, my type of player tends to be under-represented in the forums.

"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL
"I have retard strength." - Schild
stray
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Reply #84 on: November 03, 2005, 06:10:33 PM

As a result, my type of player tends to be under-represented in the forums.

It's one of the reasons why I tend to stick around here ("tend" being an understatement). Why I came to Wto or f13, and fled the Vault. Why I hardly ever post on specific game boards.* Communities like this one were a godsend when I first found them -- If I was somewhere else talking about mmo's, I'd think I was the only person who didn't like them.

*Though sometimes the mix max, number juggling, game specific bullshit seeps into these parts too.


Anyways, I think the type of gamer generally represented here, for instance, is a rare breed.
Signe
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Reply #85 on: November 03, 2005, 07:21:22 PM

Comparing PopTart to SirB is dicing with death, you know.

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Calandryll
Developers
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Reply #86 on: November 03, 2005, 09:13:19 PM

This is something I actually wanted to talk about in the Community panels and am disappointed I didn’t get a chance to. There is no such thing as “the customer” when it comes to feedback on game development. Let me explain.

Let’s say you own a store and you sell “whatchacallits”. One day, 20 people buy a whatchacallit from you. The next day, two of your customers bring back their whatchacallit and say it’s defective. You examine it and determine that they are indeed defective and replace them. Perfect! Two satisfied customers, no problem. That’s the easy kind of customer service because those two customers’ complaints are in a vacuum; they aren’t connected to any other customers’ concerns and your fixing their concern didn’t impact your other customers at all. In an MMOG sense, this is akin to a customer having a billing problem, calling support, and having that problem resolved.

But a few days later, 5 of your customers come to your store and tell you the handle on the whatchacallit is too small. Before you can react, 5 other customers come in and tell you the handle on their whatchacallit is too big. Another group of 5 tell you the handle is stupid and you should just get rid of it and spend your time adding flame graphics to the whatchacallit. The last group of 5 says it’s just right the way it is, don’t you dare change it! You only make one whatchacallit and any change you make to one of them, you have to make to all of them. What do you do? No matter what you do, 15 of your customers are going to be pissed. Fifteen of them are going to say “You didn’t listen to us. You don’t care.” In MMOG terms this is akin to class balance.

The moment customers’ desires are connected and different there is no such thing as “a customer”. What you have now is multiple groups of customers, many with diametrically opposed wants and opinions…essentially you have special interest groups. What’s even more challenging is many players will belong to different groups within special interest groups. You show me a community that always agrees 100% on the direction of the game and doesn’t actually have completely opposite views on what the right direction is, and I will show you a community of one person.

Before I continue, let me state clearly that this is NOT the players’ fault or problem. It’s our (the developers) problem. We have to do a better job of setting players’ expectations, of communicating WHY we make a change, and of sticking to our promises (implied or otherwise). We have to recognize who the special interest groups are, how they agree and disagree, and do our best to keep them all in mind when making updates and changes. And when we don’t agree with a special interest group, it’s up to us to tell them why we don’t agree in a clear and professional manner.

The fact is, every development team I’ve worked on (up to about 6 or 7 now) does in fact look for and value player feedback. I can list countless examples of how designs were changed in UO based on specific message board posts or in-game comments. And I can list countless examples of how those changes had a positive impact on the game and of how some very vocal groups of players HATED those changes just as much as other groups loved them.

Honestly I think the biggest problem we face with this issue is being consistent. Sometimes we do a good job of explaining the reasoning behind a change and other times we make a change without giving any warning or explanation at all. We have to stop that. We also have to understand that the message boards are a special interest group all unto themselves and that they may or may not represent the community at large. We need more in-game metrics to see what our players are doing in addition to what they are saying. Logging in and playing the game is good, but it won’t give you anywhere near all the information you need. That’s a whole other issue though.

I hope that all made sense and I further hope that nobody takes anything I wrote the wrong way. We DO value and want player feedback. It's important. We go through a lot of effort to try and take player feedback along with our own knowledge of the game and then make the best decision we can. I have yet to work with a team that didn’t and wouldn’t for very long if I did. But in the end, it is impossible to please everyone when everyone wants something different. That doesn’t mean we don’t try to do what is best for the game after we get all of the feedback. But any change, no matter how minute, will probably upset someone. The trick is to not just understand that, but to be understanding of it.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2005, 09:19:23 PM by Calandryll »
SuperPopTart
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I am damn cute for a stubby shortling.


Reply #87 on: November 04, 2005, 12:13:16 AM

Exactly how am I like SirBruce?

And not a bullshit answer, if you please. I don't do dumb blonde well.

I am Super, I am a Pop Tart.
stray
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Reply #88 on: November 04, 2005, 12:31:50 AM

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=5008.msg129782#msg129782

SirBruce was notorious for chopping up posts, quoting and replying bit by bit.  :-D

Innocent joke, I think. Everyone SirBruces someone every once in a while a while. That you did it, using red italics, is breaking the "rules" in two ways at once (not my rules, mind you. I'm just explaining things...).
schild
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Reply #89 on: November 04, 2005, 01:02:07 AM

Exactly how am I like SirBruce?

And not a bullshit answer, if you please. I don't do dumb blonde well.

More of a StGabe thing really.

Edit: Also, I just realized. By tagging it red, you could have just tagged it quote. In other words, you're doing the exact same amount of work. instead of typing
Code:
[color=Red][/color]

use

Code:
[quote][/quote]

It actually less letters than doing the color. No dropdown menu either. Also, my eyes bleed less.
SuperPopTart
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Posts: 990

I am damn cute for a stubby shortling.


Reply #90 on: November 04, 2005, 08:17:44 AM

Anything I'd said just doesn't matter. It's stupid to poke someone because of the way they choose to quote something. It's petty.

Whatever. Red Italics gone.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2005, 10:48:12 AM by SuperPopTart »

I am Super, I am a Pop Tart.
Evangolis
Contributor
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Reply #91 on: November 04, 2005, 10:47:03 AM

...To contribute I'll ask a question regarding the whole player/dev communication thing. Has anyone ever looked at the numbers of what percentage of an MMo's players actually ever visit and post on community boards? Its always seemed to me that most boards are filled with the same type of people that frequent the info sites like Startics, Thottbot, Alakazheem - namely the power gamers and min maxers. Personally, I've always felt that the general opinions of "the boards" tended to be a little skewed, since they really don't include the opinions of the casual gamer that just wants to have fun playing the game.

I really don't give a shit about reaching 60, or having my class perfectly balanced in pvp, or feeling nerfed. I also don't post about the games I play for the same reason - I don't care about these minute details, I just want the game to be fun. As a result, my type of player tends to be under-represented in the forums.


I think most players want the game to be fun, but those definitions vary.  I think my player type, which is primarily explorer, is vastly over-represented on all forums, particularly on general comment/hardcore gamer forums like this and Corp.  By contrast, I think achiever types are vastly under-represented.
***

I kind of like the red text for quotes, it does make things a bit clearer, but only with this funky black background.
***

...  It’s our (the developers) problem. We have to do a better job of setting players’ expectations, of communicating WHY we make a change, and of sticking to our promises (implied or otherwise). ...

Which promises?  Even when developers start making the game, before developers announce more than the most basic description of the game, they are making two promises to players, one that this is such and so sort of game, and the other, that it will be fun.  What happens when those two basic promises conflict, never mind all the promises that follow.  Is it really possible for developers to keep their promises when there are so many of them, and they are so often evolve into contradiction?

I've long since come close to the Kelly Flock position ('Customers just mess us up.'), that customers generally tend to create confusion for developers, and customer comments, as opposed to customer behavior (like quitting, or other quantifiable behaviors) are more trouble than they are worth.  I do think customer behavior in game is important to follow, but message boards seem to me to be a bad place to work on design changes, particularly post-alpha.

"It was a difficult party" - an unexpected word combination from ex-Merry Prankster and author Robert Stone.
Shockeye
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Reply #92 on: November 04, 2005, 10:54:20 AM

I've long since come close to the Kelly Flock position ('Customers just mess us up.'), that customers generally tend to create confusion for developers, and customer comments, as opposed to customer behavior (like quitting, or other quantifiable behaviors) are more trouble than they are worth.  I do think customer behavior in game is important to follow, but message boards seem to me to be a bad place to work on design changes, particularly post-alpha.

I am starting to come to this conclusion as well.
HaemishM
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Reply #93 on: November 04, 2005, 11:09:28 AM

The moment customers’ desires are connected and different there is no such thing as “a customer”. What you have now is multiple groups of customers, many with diametrically opposed wants and opinions…essentially you have special interest groups. What’s even more challenging is many players will belong to different groups within special interest groups. You show me a community that always agrees 100% on the direction of the game and doesn’t actually have completely opposite views on what the right direction is, and I will show you a community of one person.

Conflicting desires, anyone?

Calandryll
Developers
Posts: 335

Would you kindly produce a web game.


Reply #94 on: November 04, 2005, 11:34:23 AM

I've long since come close to the Kelly Flock position ('Customers just mess us up.'), that customers generally tend to create confusion for developers, and customer comments, as opposed to customer behavior (like quitting, or other quantifiable behaviors) are more trouble than they are worth.  I do think customer behavior in game is important to follow, but message boards seem to me to be a bad place to work on design changes, particularly post-alpha.
Agree and disagree. I don't agree because that statement puts the blame on the players. It's not the players' fault if their comments confuse the developers into making the wrong decision. That's the developers fault...and more importantly, the fault of their OCR team. A good OCR rep. can wade through the comments, pick out the key issues, and report back to the developers.

I do agree however that we need to look at BOTH message board comments and in-game actions. We probably don't do enough of the latter yet. I don't think designing in a vacuum is a good idea though and just looking at metrics and statistics doesn't give you the subjective information you need to make a fully informed decision.
Shockeye
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Reply #95 on: November 04, 2005, 12:10:51 PM

I do agree however that we need to look at BOTH message board comments and in-game actions. We probably don't do enough of the latter yet. I don't think designing in a vacuum is a good idea though and just looking at metrics and statistics doesn't give you the subjective information you need to make a fully informed decision.

This is something Damion Schubert stressed heavily in his presentation on Vegas and MMOs and it's something I think every developer should be doing their best to implement: robust datamining. If you know what's popular and what's not you know where to take the game going forward. You don't have to wade through as much noise on the forums because you can track what quests people are doing and which ones are being avoided, average time for completion of said quests, what mobs are being killed, etc etc etc. I know of one upcoming NCSoft game where they are putting in robust data mining and I hope it works as well for them as I suspect it will.
Bunk
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Reply #96 on: November 04, 2005, 12:57:14 PM

I wasn't trying to be mean or petty PopTart, I just always find it funny when people start posting in that style, because certain people on these boards used to have coniptions at Bruce for doing it all the time. Personally it doesn't bother me.

So to be clear: it was a joke. To be further clear Signe, when some one is "SirBrucing" that is not comparing them to Bruce, but mearly a long standing reference to a posting style.

Lets all be happy.

"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL
"I have retard strength." - Schild
HaemishM
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Reply #97 on: November 04, 2005, 01:17:28 PM

Technically, she was StGabing.

Shockeye
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Reply #98 on: November 04, 2005, 01:23:19 PM

Technically, she was StGabing.

StGabing with flair.
WayAbvPar
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Reply #99 on: November 04, 2005, 01:44:41 PM

Technically, she was StGabing.

StGabing with flair.

Isn't that what the Nazis made the Jews wear?

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
SuperPopTart
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I am damn cute for a stubby shortling.


Reply #100 on: November 04, 2005, 02:15:35 PM

The moment customers’ desires are connected and different there is no such thing as “a customer”. What you have now is multiple groups of customers, many with diametrically opposed wants and opinions…essentially you have special interest groups. What’s even more challenging is many players will belong to different groups within special interest groups. You show me a community that always agrees 100% on the direction of the game and doesn’t actually have completely opposite views on what the right direction is, and I will show you a community of one person.


In reference to what I was speaking of earlier in these posts, I stand fully by my position and say that everyone wants good customer service and interaction between what's above and what's below. Everyone wants their opinions, concerns and comments to be taken and digested seriously. Nothing HAS to be, but everything NEEDS to be looked at.

I don't know one single person that did NOT enjoy GM or guide or CSR intervention in their game play, when it was used to encourage further good game play, a furthering of a storyline or used in some way to enhance the world. Even when it was SOE's repetitive BS holiday events.

Furthermore, Bruce was a penis. When he had the rare intelligent thing to say it was a shock. Bruce was a disgusting, horribly offensive simply because of what he represented troll of a human being, if he even qualifies for human being status. So thank you for the amusingly funny comparison. I hope you contract something herpes like and very painful.

Also, I don't necessarily think it fair to attach a tag to StGabe just because he may have reacted badly to not utilizing the quoting system properly. And I don't appreciate being tagged for the same thing. I just didn't use it, thinking my way looked better and to me was easier. Point. Done. Gone. It's over. Move on.

If you don't like that I have the ability to quote using red italics, remove the red and the italics. Oh wait, no then I'll try blue.

Not trying to go into bitch mode here, it just happens. Maybe I'm throwing a Lindsay Lohan?

Edited because I spelled something wrong.

I am Super, I am a Pop Tart.
Calandryll
Developers
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Would you kindly produce a web game.


Reply #101 on: November 04, 2005, 02:45:30 PM

The moment customers’ desires are connected and different there is no such thing as “a customer”. What you have now is multiple groups of customers, many with diametrically opposed wants and opinions…essentially you have special interest groups. What’s even more challenging is many players will belong to different groups within special interest groups. You show me a community that always agrees 100% on the direction of the game and doesn’t actually have completely opposite views on what the right direction is, and I will show you a community of one person.

In reference to what I was speaking of earlier in these posts, I stand fully by my position and say that everyone wants good customer service and interaction between what's above and what's below. Everyone wants their opinions, concerns and comments to be taken and digested seriously. Nothing HAS to be, but everything NEEDS to be looked at.

I don't know one single person that did NOT enjoy GM or guide or CSR intervention in their game play, when it was used to encourage further good game play, a furthering of a storyline or used in some way to enhance the world. Even when it was SOE's repetitive BS holiday events.
But not everyone agrees on what "good interaction" means. For some, just seeing "red names" post on the forums is enough. For others, they want a response to every idea they post. And for others even if there is a response, if their idea/suggestion isn't implemented, then that means the devs didn't listen. And then there are dozens of views inbetween those extremes including some people here who wonder if we should interact with customers on the forums at all! It's up to us (the OCR people) to help set players' expectations on what level of communication we plan to deliver and then stick to it. I don't think we are quite there yet.

As far as in-game events, having run them in a couple of games now, there most certainly have been complaints. The biggest being those people who felt left out because they missed the event. Or people who thought the event caused too much lag and ruined their plans for the night to camp some monsters. Or people who felt that the resources to run events were a waste and we should be spending them on fixing bugs or adding new content. Or those who felt there wasn't enough story in an event vs. those who don't care about story and just want more phat lewt. Nothing is ever black and white...there is always more than one opinion to almost any situation.

I'll assume the rest of your response wasn't directed at me. :)
SuperPopTart
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I am damn cute for a stubby shortling.


Reply #102 on: November 04, 2005, 02:47:50 PM

The moment customers’ desires are connected and different there is no such thing as “a customer”. What you have now is multiple groups of customers, many with diametrically opposed wants and opinions…essentially you have special interest groups. What’s even more challenging is many players will belong to different groups within special interest groups. You show me a community that always agrees 100% on the direction of the game and doesn’t actually have completely opposite views on what the right direction is, and I will show you a community of one person.

In reference to what I was speaking of earlier in these posts, I stand fully by my position and say that everyone wants good customer service and interaction between what's above and what's below. Everyone wants their opinions, concerns and comments to be taken and digested seriously. Nothing HAS to be, but everything NEEDS to be looked at.

I don't know one single person that did NOT enjoy GM or guide or CSR intervention in their game play, when it was used to encourage further good game play, a furthering of a storyline or used in some way to enhance the world. Even when it was SOE's repetitive BS holiday events.
But not everyone agrees on what "good interaction" means. For some, just seeing "red names" post on the forums is enough. For others, they want a response to every idea they post. And for others even if there is a response, if their idea/suggestion isn't implemented, then that means the devs didn't listen. And then there are dozens of views inbetween those extremes including some people here who wonder if we should interact with customers on the forums at all! It's up to us (the OCR people) to help set players' expectations on what level of communication we plan to deliver and then stick to it. I don't think we are quite there yet.

As far as in-game events, having run them in a couple of games now, there most certainly have been complaints. The biggest being those people who felt left out because they missed the event. Or people who thought the event caused too much lag and ruined their plans for the night to camp some monsters. Or people who felt that the resources to run events were a waste and we should be spending them on fixing bugs or adding new content. Or those who felt there wasn't enough story in an event vs. those who don't care about story and just want more phat lewt. Nothing is ever black and white...there is always more than one opinion to almost any situation.

I'll assume the rest of your response wasn't directed at me. :)


No :) It wasn't. Sorry :(

I am Super, I am a Pop Tart.
WayAbvPar
Moderator
Posts: 18569


Reply #103 on: November 04, 2005, 03:26:03 PM

Quote
Maybe I'm throwing a Lindsay Lohan?

Did cocaine destroy your curves as well?

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Who the hell taught you how to write? Fuck, that sentence is like internet transmitted face-attacking knives. Jesus. schild
SuperPopTart
Terracotta Army
Posts: 990

I am damn cute for a stubby shortling.


Reply #104 on: November 05, 2005, 12:01:42 AM

Quote
Maybe I'm throwing a Lindsay Lohan?

Did cocaine destroy your curves as well?


No dearest, cookies did :(

I am Super, I am a Pop Tart.
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