Never mind the Bollocks

[voodoolily]

Here's the Sucks Pistols

Timberlake being headhunted to play Rotten 

Former boyband singer Justin Timberlake is being lined up to play one of the most controversial figures in rock history in a new biopic - the Sex Pistols frontman Johnny Rotten.

Rotten, real name John Lydon, is keen to enlist the talents of former 'N Sync star Timberlake to play him in a big-budget movie dramatisation of his controversial life.



However, Rotten still has his doubts about Timberlake's credentials, and even has difficulty remembering his name.

He says: "I've asked Jason Timberlake to do it.

"He hasn't said yes but I think it would work because he's a damn fine singer but he's beginning to look bored."

[HaemishM]

My mind just went SPROING!

[Signe]

Fucking hell.

[Sky]

I am Jack's total lack of credibility.

[Yegolev]

While I am Jason's total lack of... what?

[Signe]

While I am Jason's total lack of... what?

Hockey mask?  Muderous rampage?  Smash?

[Cheddar]

This is not stupid news.  It is moronic news.

[Ironwood]

I seriously think someone's being wound up here...

[Nevermore]

I'm sure Lydon was being completely serious!

[Pococurante]

Yeah if he could only find that OTHER neuron to rub together for sparks.

[stray]

Serves them right. Fuck the Sex Pistols (except Sid). They ruined punk, and at the same time, act like they created it.

*PiL wasn't bad though!

[Pococurante]

*PiL wasn't bad though!

Damned skippy - pretty good actually.

[Righ]

Serves them right. Fuck the Sex Pistols (except Sid). They ruined punk, and at the same time, act like they created it.

Amusing. You cannot ruin punk, punk. Apperently you don't get it. The Pistols created a wave within the record companies that allowed a lot of British punk acts to get exposure. That's good enough. Plus they had some good tunes and Lydon's vox.

[stray]

You cannot ruin punk, punk.

Sure you can.

1) By turning it only one sound (before the Pistols, only the Ramones did the 3 Chord/Chuck Berry on speed thing. After the Pistols, every new band did it). Punk wasn't even able to be categorized before all that shit came along.

2) By ripping one's t-shirt and wearing safety pins for no damn good reason except "style". The guy they copped that looked off of was Richard Hell (and he only did it because he was homeless and only had one shirt).

3) Malcolm McLaren....Pretty much the same as point 2 though.

4) Record companies gave up on punk as it was known by the end of the seventies. Much of it had to do people growing out of their 70's excess stage (studio execs, I mean), and it affected all of rock (Contrary to popular thought, there used to be creative freedom in the mainstream rock industry)....But as for "punk", the Pistols U.S. Tour was the nail in the coffin. None of them ever trusted a punk band again (that is, unless they played along with a whole new set of rules...And called themselves "New Wave").

The ones who didn't play along though, for the most part, still churned out the same old snarl/safety pin/Chuck Berry thing. So it still sucked anyways.

[stray]

Basically what I'm saying is: Everything from the 80's onward became a lot more gimmicky and vain.

As for the record company thing...Probably would have happened either way.

[WayAbvPar]

Punk's not dead
It just deserves to die
When it becomes another stale cartoon
A close-minded, self-centered social club
Ideas don't matter, it's who you know
If the music's gotten boring
It's because of the people
Who want everyone to sound the same
Who drive bright people out
Of our so-called scene
'Til all that's left Is just a meaningless fad

This argument has been going on for a long time.

[stray]

Yep, yep.

But not on F13!  :-D

Lord knows we already have enough Star Wars threads. This won't hurt.

[Righ]

You cannot ruin punk, punk.

Sure you can.

1) By turning it only one sound (before the Pistols, only the Ramones did the 3 Chord/Chuck Berry on speed thing. After the Pistols, every new band did it). Punk wasn't even able to be categorized before all that shit came along.

MC5, Pink Fairies, Stooges... quite a few before the Ramones too.

2) By ripping one's t-shirt and wearing safety pins for no damn good reason except "style". The guy they copped that looked off of was Richard Hell (and he only did it because he was homeless and only had one shirt).

Blame Vivian Westwood.

3) Malcolm McLaren....Pretty much the same as point 2 though.

He's done more good than harm, IMO. Mostly harmless effete twat.

4) Record companies gave up on punk as it was known by the end of the seventies. Much of it had to do people growing out of their 70's excess stage (studio execs, I mean), and it affected all of rock (Contrary to popular thought, there used to be creative freedom in the mainstream rock industry)....But as for "punk", the Pistols U.S. Tour was the nail in the coffin. None of them ever trusted a punk band again (that is, unless they played along with a whole new set of rules...And called themselves "New Wave").

Wire, Crass, Vice Squad, Exploited, Husker Du, Bad Brains, Big Black... nope, punk did fine in the 80s. The majors moved their little fashionista thug gangs onto the next 'scene', but the Pistols provided exposure that seeded the indie market.

The ones who didn't play along though, for the most part, still churned out the same old snarl/safety pin/Chuck Berry thing. So it still sucked anyways.

I guess that depends on how narrowly you want to define punk. The spirit of punk was what embodied the 303-infused electro beat of underground bands like Spiral Tribe at the height of the ecstacy and acid fuelled rave scene. But if you define punk as everything that sounds like 60s garage grunge, its going to be hard not to sound like that, isn't it?

1971:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/positivelycanine/mp3s/fairiessnake.mp3

[Pococurante]

I remained a huge George fan even after he opined, "Remember when they told us back in the sixties acid caused gene damage? They were right!! Punk rockers, need I say more?"

[stray]

You cannot ruin punk, punk.

Sure you can.

1) By turning it only one sound (before the Pistols, only the Ramones did the 3 Chord/Chuck Berry on speed thing. After the Pistols, every new band did it). Punk wasn't even able to be categorized before all that shit came along.

MC5, Pink Fairies, Stooges... quite a few before the Ramones too.

I never equated the Stooges or MC5 with that sound at all....Just an extension of the Detroit sound mixed in the all the other raucous stuff that was happening across a bunch of bands towards the end of the 60's. Especially the 5. And Iggy drew more from 60's garagers than he did Berry or rockabilly riffs. To clarify: I'm not saying some punk bands didn't sound like hard bluesy rock before the Ramones. I'm talking about something else.

Wire, Crass, Vice Squad, Exploited, Husker Du, Bad Brains, Big Black... nope, punk did fine in the 80s. The majors moved their little fashionista thug gangs onto the next 'scene', but the Pistols provided exposure that seeded the indie market.

I'm as big of a Albini or H.R. fan that you're likely to see. I tried my best to say "for the most part" so as not condemn everything. Still, I don't think punk did "fine" in the 80's. Hell, even many of THOSE very bands were sick of it by then.

[voodoolily]

Yeah, I guess brining up late 60s rock-punk/pre-punk is like bringing up late ska (I'm not talking about this fake shit coming out nowadays). Dekker didn't know what his sound would evolve into once it was in the hands of British kids. And you don't have to listen very carefully to hear a lot of pre-punk in Relics or Piper At the Gates of Dawn, and Pink Floyd certainly didn't move into that direction.

[Cheddar]

Its cool until people like it, eh?  Thats all I heard.

[stray]

Its cool until people like it, eh?  Thats all I heard.

/sigh

No, no, that's not at all what I meant. I wouldn't care if everyone and their mom listened to punk. That'd be great actually.

I'm just talking about before it broke apart, no two bands really sounded the same. The whole early period of punk had nothing to do with making it a distinctive genre or style of music. Some were classically trained pianists, some street poets, some were yippies, some dabbling with synth, some were surfers, some trying to revive 50's rock and Elvis, some jazz fusionists, some Rastafarians...Whatever. It was just about people trying to be themselves, and at the very most, the only thing that tied the 60's/70's bands together was that their music had a sense of rawness that was lacking in mainstream rock at the time (que Fleetwood Mac and Boston).

Post 1977, there were more bands than not though, that missed the point, and decided that Punk was "whatever the Pistols sounded like". And the rest of the world didn't know any better but to agree with them. And it still goes on....The image today of punk is still the same posturing bullshit.

I could go up to almost any given "punk", play Marquee Moon or Rama Lama Fa Fa Fa to them, and they're going to give me the same strange look they'd give if I had played Karen Carpenter. Play the Buzzcocks or the Germs and they'll go "Oh man, that's old school! Right on!"

And as silly as it is, I'll blame the Sex Pistols (and maybe the Descendents) for that bullshit.

[schild]

Punk is an immature angsty state of mind located between goth/emo and hardcore. Not a type of music.

If you want to call any music punk it should be defined as simple musicians play simple songs with lyrics that only uninformed left-wing nutjobs can understand. And sometimes involves a catchy chorus.

[Cheddar]

The issue is that we are human.  As such we have to box up, catagorize, and otherwise fit the widgets into round pegs.  Musical genres should really only be described by the period it was made, if at all.  I think I have decided I am saving up my money and retiring far, far away from people. 

[stray]

Punk is an immature angsty state of mind located between goth/emo and hardcore. Not a type of music.

If you want to call any music punk it should be defined as simple musicians play simple songs with lyrics that only uninformed left-wing nutjobs can understand. And sometimes involves a catchy chorus.

Whether you intended to or not, thanks for reaffirming my point  :-D.

Early punk was not so though. It was simply a renaissance, not a genre....That ended up getting reduced to the above.

Delve into the 60's and 70's (John Cale, Nico, or Tom Verlaine for instance...and that's just the start of it) and you'll find that it offered much more.

[schild]

No, it didn't. And most of it is completely obsolete. The idea of "punk" was always rebel against whatever system existed, unfortunately the majority of it didn't make sense in america and it really was just a vague far left. Perhaps in England it made more sense. Here? Hippiedom had it covered far before the punks could do anything interesting with it. Sorry, but weed beat you to the punch. In other words, you can't kill what was already dead.

I do like lots of music in the style of punk, but you'll never see me subscribe to a newletter.

[stray]

WHAT are you talking about? Far left? Do you even know what bands I'm referring to (I hate to offend you, but it's an honest question. This isn't a discussion about Bad Religion or Minor Threat or whoever you think is old enough to qualify for this conversation. I'm talking about bands that predate them 15 to 20 years). They were people who were simply writing and creating things about their personal lives. Very little of it had any kind of overt political bent. It was just about expression. No different than what the beatniks, BeBop, or 19th cent. Symbolism tried to do.

Really man...Tell me what's political about TV Eye or I Wanna Be Your Dog. Or Horses. Venus in Furs. I Wanna Sniff Some Glue...

Want their statement on politics? Listen to The Blank Generation.

About the only ones who made any sort of political stance in that extreme leftist sense was the MC5. And barely. They were really more about kicking out the fucking jams.

This goes back to Malcolm McLaren actually. Before he managed the Pistols, he managed the New York Dolls...And he was kicked from the entire scene because of what he tried to do with them. He started getting them dressed up in Soviet Gear, putting big banners of the hammer and sickle on the walls of their shows...Tried to make them into something other than kids trying to play fun rock and roll. And everyone was pissed. He totally missed the point. So he went back home, and sold his little project there.

Lastly, using terms like "obsolete" when talking about music is about the most confusing thing I've read here. What does that mean anyways?

[voodoolily]

Knock it back, 'ave another one. Drinkin' an' drivin' is so much fun!

[Triforcer]

[X Kind of Music] is ruined.  They killed it twenty years ago when they [sold out/all became samizdat clones].  It was cool when [band even 99% of X's fans haven't heard of] put out their first album, but [most famous band of genre] turned it into a Britney Spears candy-cane world of conformity.  If you are under 20, any band you've heard that is self-styled "X" is just fooling you.  The only hope for music is Y subgenre and [band formed last week in Gary, Indiana by homeless lesbian conservative Jews for Allah], as they are bringing back the synesthetic base lines of jazz/1987 Boston ska-country fusion to create a sound both acetominopeinic and solubrious in its pre-technology/cyberbluegrass quiesthesitude.       

[stray]

I was nice to Cheddar and clarified my point when he thought I was saying that exact thing.....But now that I've already posted plenty to explain where I was coming from, I'm just going to say

Shut the fuck up and read the damn thread.

[Shockeye]

Please don't bring up the NY Dolls. Morrissey may show up and start spouting things.

[stray]

Eh...Morrisey's whining would be an improvement at this point.

I'm more perturbed that this guy



Just came into this thread and tried to educate me about music.



So there we go Schild! The topic is political after all... 

[Cheddar]

I was nice to Cheddar and clarified my point when he thought I was saying that exact thing.....But now that I've already posted plenty to explain where I was coming from, I'm just going to say

Shut the fuck up and read the damn thread.

Thank you :)  Really I was just poking with a stick, but I did follow up with the entire point about catagorizing.  That age of information and human nature is still coming to terms with each other, and as such it is surprising our brains do not melt.  You have to admit though, Triforcer made a funny.  And it is good.

[Shockeye]

Eh...Morrisey's whining would be an improvement at this point.

You obviously never read his fanboi letters about the Dolls.