300

[Ironwood]

I dunno;  I hear in Renovations, they get a new Ottoman.

[Lantyssa]

 

[HaemishM]

Sparta is the new Matrix.

Didn't we like Sparta though?

Fucking loved it. And I loved the first Matrix. But every one is adopting Sparta as the new 'it' thing, from the "THIS IS SPARTA!" sigs to other things like the graphic just above my post. It's the new geek cred.

Thankfully, you can't really make a sequel to it, though I'm sure Hollywood would try to fuck that dry hole if they thought they could.

[Velorath]

Thankfully, you can't really make a sequel to it, though I'm sure Hollywood would try to fuck that dry hole if they thought they could.

You can always do a sequel when money is involved:

Snyder wouldn’t even consider doing a prequel/sequel of the film (299? 301?) unless Miller first wrote one. He did mention that Miller once told him about a sequel idea involving the Spartans as the bad guys. However, Miller was quick to point out that while he has a precise idea of what the sequel will be, but as he told Warners, that’s all anyone gets without paying.

[bhodi]

As we all know, YTMND is at the forefront.

This funny one I saw today:
http://thisiscellphone.ytmnd.com/

[Llava]

I noticed that as well, and am glad I can like pirates still but not be completely overwhelmed with pirate fans and fact about pirates.

[Endie]

Thankfully, you can't really make a sequel to it, though I'm sure Hollywood would try to fuck that dry hole if they thought they could.

Ach, they'd just skip forward a few years to the Archidamian or Peloponnesian wars.  Nice big theme there, too, with Athenian democracy* fighting Spartan autocracy and associated helot-bothering.  You even get a Spartan surrender.

If, as someone suggests, you want true Spatran baddies, you use the Helot revolt of the mid 460s.  That would actually work rather well.

--------

*Yes, I know about the Delian League.  But I doubt if Hollywood would make the George Lucas-esque mistake of covering that bit.

[Tebonas]

I have to smile at the idea of Spartans being Geek role models. If Spartans hadn't died out because of the lack of childbearing couples they would beat up geeks by the dozens before lunch break now. After all, Athens was the chess club of ancient Greece, and look how they liked them.

[Endie]

I have to smile at the idea of Spartans being Geek role models. If Spartans hadn't died out because of the lack of childbearing couples they would beat up geeks by the dozens before lunch break now. After all, Athens was the chess club of ancient Greece, and look how they liked them.

When people invest in movies too much, vol. 3: I shattered a tooth on Saturday, playing rugby.  Yesterday, at about 5am, I woke up, thoroughly pissed off at waiting to go to the dentist, and finding the movement in my mouth unpleasant and painful.  So I went to the bathroom and pulled it out.  It hurt a bit, but in true 5am logic, I was honestly thinking that it was a joke that I was afraid of a quick bit of pain and blood, in the light of, um, certain movies.

PS Re chess clubs, the Athenians had already beaten the Persians pretty much by themselves at Marathon, the first time they'd tried to invade.  That victory involved a sprint across several hundred yards of ground, in full bronze armour, in the middle of a Greek summer.

[Tebonas]

Are you implying chess club people are losers? Because all I am implying is that some jocks see them as convenient targets for an early morning beatup. And I'm only implying that because I saw too many US sitcoms in my youth  :-D

And the Spartans saw Athens as a convenient target quite often. There never was much love between the two.

[Endie]

Are you implying chess club people are losers? Because all I am implying is that some jocks see them as convenient targets for an early morning beatup. And I'm only implying that because I saw too many US sitcoms in my youth  :-D

Ah, ok.  Well, I'd qualify it by saying that the Athenians were the Chess Club (and Math, Science etc), but that they were also the long-distance rowing club and that when some Jocks from another school tried to steal their lunch money they totally went postal on them.  But that, despite all that, the Spartans looked down on them as ghey nerds.

[Tebonas]

True dat, but while we could both talk for hours over Greek history and the merits of the different Greek Poleis, the fact that Spartans are geek role models is still a funny thing to me 

[Strazos]

Agreed. I would think the Athenians more properly fit the role of "geek role models."

Also, they unleashed nerd fury and formed The Arche their empire, so...heh.


EDIT: Using the wrong word I believe. They had a special word for their "empire," thought what it is escapes me at the moment.

[Llava]

It isn't just geeks getting into Spartans, it's everyone.

People love total badasses.

Athenians aren't total badasses.

It isn't a new geek role model, it's a fad just like pirates before it.

[NowhereMan]

Spartan Pirates, that'll be the next step.

"This be not madness! This be the good ship Sparta! Yarrrgh!"

[Endie]

EDIT: Using the wrong word I believe. They had a special word for their "empire," thought what it is escapes me at the moment.

The Delian League?

[Samwise]

It isn't a new geek role model, it's a fad just like pirates before it.

The first thing I said to one of my friends after leaving the IMAX showing was "This movie proves conclusively that Spartans beat ninjas hands-down."  We then discussed the relative merits of pirates and Vikings vs. Spartans.  It was generally agreed that Spartans would beat pirates in a straight-up battle on land, but on a boat or in a duel of wits the pirates would have the edge.  The Viking angle is still up for debate.

[Endie]

Did you take account of the relative merits of zombies, monkeys or robots in your comparative study?

[stray]

It isn't just geeks getting into Spartans, it's everyone.

People love total badasses.

Athenians aren't total badasses.

It isn't a new geek role model, it's a fad just like pirates before it.

Plenty of reviews are out that keep this is in the "just above meh" phase. I and everyone that has seen it, and everyone I went to see it with thought the same.

Not saying that's a bad thing. I'm just saying. Spartans are more akin to Tyler Durden-frustrated-pseudo-aggressive-wish-I-could-kick-ass-man-geek love than anything to do with pirates.

Except Tyler told a good story -- So I probably shouldn't even use that.


And you're way off on thinking pirates (or swashbuckler types) are a fad. They've been popular for a long time, across a wide variety of ages and types of people. It's like saying "Freedom" is a fad. Among anti-heroes, probably  gunfighters, gangsters, and vampires are the only things that top them in mass media treatment.

[Samwise]

Did you take account of the relative merits of zombies, monkeys or robots in your comparative study?

Suffice to say that if they'd used a Spartan phalanx formation in Dawn of the Dead, there would never have been a Land of the Dead.

[Tannhauser]

I don't know, Spartans may be cool but pirates have more fun!

 http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU


I am SO sorry.

[Wolf]

Something funny from the other side of the world

The text reads "1000 Free Minutes + 200 Free SMS". Please note how the moustache is glued wrong 

[Llava]

And you're way off on thinking pirates (or swashbuckler types) are a fad. They've been popular for a long time, across a wide variety of ages and types of people.

Myself among them.

But to say they haven't been a fad lately is just silly.  It went from being something with a few enthusiasts to being completely unavoidable no matter where you went.  Whether it was a book store, grocery store, any sort of amusement park, or just on the street around Halloween any time since the first Pirates of the Carribbean film came out, you DAMN sure saw some pirate stuff.

Let's look at ninjas, for instance.  Sure, they have a following.  Ninjas are cool, but if you go to the grocery store you don't see ninja-related gear.  Now imagine some movie comes out that's as big a smash as Pirates was.  See what I'm saying?

I haven't heard a dude who isn't a geek say he didn't like 300.  If anything, it's been mostly geeks saying it was "just okay".  And yes, by posting on this website you are automatically a geek.  And yes, almost all film critics are geeks.  And that's fine, you have more discerning tastes, cool.  But this damn sure isn't just a geek thing.  What remains to be seen is whether or not this will have the staying power of pirates.  I don't think it will, because it's a movie that's largely inaccessible to kids, which means you won't see a lot of Spartan stuff around Halloween, and you won't see a lot of action figures and merchandise.  I have no idea whether Frank Miller would have a problem with any of that or not.

[stray]

I resent that. The geek test says I only have geek tendencies!  Like, I geek out about a small number of things


Point taken though. 

[Tebonas]

300 finally made it to our cinemas and I was able to see it. Nice movie, but from comments in the thread here I expected more. Overinflated expectations maybe?

[Endie]

300 finally made it to our cinemas and I was able to see it. Nice movie, but from comments in the thread here I expected more. Overinflated expectations maybe?

Oddly enough, i was the opposite: it exceeded my expectations.  That said, I hated the bits that they tacked on that weren't in the novel: all that nonsense involving Gorgas at home.

[Tebonas]

Maybe its because I didn't give a shit about the queen and the movie came to a screeching halt for me everytime the little drama at home unfolded further. Give me another half hour of Spartan Phalanx badassery instead!

[Endie]

Fortunately, the bit at home is utterly unrelated to everything that goes on in the rest of the film, so, when watching on DVD, it will be a matter of pressing the skip button once and back to the slaughter.  Since the rest of the book is basically a shot-for-shot filiming of the book, the sub-plot about Gorgas that is tacked on has not managed, through some hideous process of angiogenesis, to infiltrate and corrupt the "proper" movie.

The other bit that annoyed me, and I think others hinted at this before, is that the Spartans only fight "properly" - in a phalanx - once.  The first fight is amazing, with the clash, the press of spears and co-ordinated movement of the Spartans immensely atmospheric.  The other fight scenes degenerate into one-on-ones that the Persians would have dreamt of them engaging in.  Greek hoplite battles against lighter opponents were unusual in that the enemy's rout coudl be the time when most Greek losses occurred.  This happened at Marathon.

That said, the way that the battle scenes use variable speed of playback to present very beautiful recreations of forms from friezes and from black- and red-figure pottery.  The placement and poses of the actors in the scene of Leonidas' return with the wolf is like seeing a scene from the Elgin Marbles come back to life.

[Tebonas]

I was mildly annoyed by the once single Phalanx scene because it made the rebuffal and the following betrayal of Ephialtes stupid and easily avoidable.

"You can't raise a shield to defend your neighbouring soldier, you are useless"

"But see, I can wait behind the Phalanx and when the Spartans spread out to kick some ass I can go postal with my spear as well"

"Uh yeah, but you smell funny. Go away!"


Not to forget the sensible "You know what, you can't fight in a Phalanx. How about you go defend the goat path you told us should be defended. That sounds terribly important because if it is undefended somebody could use it to completely wipe us out".

Yeah I know, Ephialtes had to betray them. And that the Hubris and "We are better than everyone else" attitude of the Spartans was the key was a neat idea. It was the revenge of all those less-then-perfect babies that were killed right after birth. Now that I think about it, that thing was spledidly placed and used.

Still, somebody should be beaten for that Gorgas subplot.

[Endie]

Yeah I know, Ephialtes had to betray them. And that the Hubris and "We are better than everyone else" attitude of the Spartans was the key was a neat idea. It was the revenge of all those less-then-perfect babies that were killed right after birth. Now that I think about it, that thing was spledidly placed and used.

I hadn't thought of that take on it, but that's quite a neat view.  It works even better with the version in the graphic novel, where instead of just discarding that which was now useless to him (wherein the film, he throws his armour and spear over the cliff) Ephialtes actually jumps, himself, echoing the discarding as useless at Mt Taygetos that should have been his own fate by Spartan law.

[Falconeer]

I saw it twice.

First time: Splendid, over any expectations.
Second time: (quoting Tebonas) Somebody should be beaten for that Gorgas subplot.

Point is I do agree that it won't age very well. Everything with Leonidas in it is incredibly good, and the first times you see it it overshadows the boring and BADLY acted Sparta scenes. The next times you see it, you just start looking for a remote to FFWD over those scenes. Those aren't just "not good", Those are pathetic... a steaming pile of shit, and it says a lot that the first time I didn't noticed it: it says how good the Leonidas part is, for which I praise 300 and I'll buy it as soon as it gets out in DVD. Too much "gladiator afterlife-like fields of gold" and crappy rethoric call to arms from the narrator-now-general in the end.

I am with Stray: I prefer "Rome" over "300" overall, although watching 300 the first time has been one of the best orgasms I had in the last few years (while "Rome" is fulfilling but platonic love).

[angry.bob]

Saw it last night. I liked it as a popcorn movie. For those people claiming that it's a pro-war propaganda movie I just have to say we aren't the Spartans in this one - we're pretty much the Persians.

Also, I'm annoyed by the price of the reproduction plots and the fact now that 300,000,000 affiliate sites have taken over every result for any sort of Greek weaponry and armor. I've wanted to get a good quality, historically accurate hoplos and helmet for a while now which will now be about impossible to find.

Also, The Return is possibly the worst suspense movie ever. I'd say horror movie but so far it's been 55 minutes and it's just SMG driving around looking tired.

[Llava]

Sarah Michelle Gellar has never done a good movie.

It may be a logical fallacy, but this is still significant evidence that she WILL never do a good movie.

(Cruel Intentions was alright, I guess, but not because of her.)

[Endie]

Also, I'm annoyed by the price of the reproduction plots and the fact now that 300,000,000 affiliate sites have taken over every result for any sort of Greek weaponry and armor. I've wanted to get a good quality, historically accurate hoplos and helmet for a while now which will now be about impossible to find.

I know what you mean, but the old google trick of refining your search with terms of art will still work: stick in the word peltast (or even pelte) or thureophoroi and you'll find sites that are pretty dedicated to the serious stuff.  Similarly, since a lot of our ideas about hoplites come, not just from archaeological remains, but from pottery, then "red-figure" or "black-figure" will also lead you to contemporary representations.

[Azazel]