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Author Topic: I'm back, bitches.  (Read 37015 times)
Morfiend
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Reply #70 on: June 24, 2005, 05:51:50 PM

We had a DPS specced warrior on Onyxia for the first 3 times we killed her. The last time he wasnt around so we had one of our lesser equiped Def specced warriors do it. He held aggro WAY better. So I dont think its that broken.
Paelos
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Reply #71 on: June 24, 2005, 06:00:18 PM

It's all taunt spamming for the warrior. It's pretty annoying, but it's effective. I'm just saying for the players, I'd like to use some of my other dev-given skills instead of the taunt.

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Shockeye
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Reply #72 on: June 24, 2005, 06:04:12 PM

It's all taunt spamming for the warrior. It's pretty annoying, but it's effective. I'm just saying for the players, I'd like to use some of my other dev-given skills instead of the taunt.

Sorry, but that would be silly since you're a warrior. Taunt and be happy, meat.
Fabricated
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Reply #73 on: June 24, 2005, 10:09:38 PM

It's all taunt spamming for the warrior. It's pretty annoying, but it's effective. I'm just saying for the players, I'd like to use some of my other dev-given skills instead of the taunt.

I'd say that revenge and sunder armor also work damn well for holding aggro. I however, have not done an Onyxia/MC or any other shitty uberdungeon run.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Paelos
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Reply #74 on: June 25, 2005, 10:20:04 AM

It's all taunt spamming for the warrior. It's pretty annoying, but it's effective. I'm just saying for the players, I'd like to use some of my other dev-given skills instead of the taunt.

I'd say that revenge and sunder armor also work damn well for holding aggro. I however, have not done an Onyxia/MC or any other shitty uberdungeon run.

That's very true. Sunder armor spamming is what you do when the mob is sticking to you. I'm not so much referring to the big dogs where you hold one guy. I'm talking about UBRS or the 10-man raids where I'm peeling lots of mobs. Ideally, I would like a very large decrease in the cooldown on challenging shout, which is the aoe taunt that pulls all mobs. That coupled with shield wall is typically a make or break thing on a possibly wipe.

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Fabricated
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Reply #75 on: June 25, 2005, 11:18:50 AM

That's very true. Sunder armor spamming is what you do when the mob is sticking to you. I'm not so much referring to the big dogs where you hold one guy. I'm talking about UBRS or the 10-man raids where I'm peeling lots of mobs. Ideally, I would like a very large decrease in the cooldown on challenging shout, which is the aoe taunt that pulls all mobs. That coupled with shield wall is typically a make or break thing on a possibly wipe.

I wouldn't mind Challenging Shout's cooldown being knocked down to 5 minutes. That seems just about right, since it only provides 6 seconds of aggro anyway.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
jpark
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Reply #76 on: June 26, 2005, 06:05:48 PM

Demoralizing shout is also helpful - aoe debuff that warriors can use to try and manage groups of mobs.

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Reply #77 on: June 26, 2005, 06:50:57 PM

Demoralizing shout is also helpful - aoe debuff that warriors can use to try and manage groups of mobs.

It's good for pulling everything at the start of a fight, but it doesn't really have any pulling power after the cloth wearers start casting.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
SurfD
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Reply #78 on: June 26, 2005, 07:35:10 PM

not so much the cloth wearers, rather the healers, since any intelligent Mage/Lock should be on whatever target the main assist is on.  If you are stupid enough to all pick different targets, then the best tank in the world isnt going to have a lot of hope of keeping aggro under controll.

Mostly, the problem should be peeling stuff off the healers when they draw too much heal aggro.

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jpark
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Reply #79 on: June 27, 2005, 10:25:10 AM

not so much the cloth wearers, rather the healers, since any intelligent Mage/Lock should be on whatever target the main assist is on.  If you are stupid enough to all pick different targets, then the best tank in the world isnt going to have a lot of hope of keeping aggro under controll.

Whoa.  Single target fights are not the only way to fight.  My groups use aoe damage effectively in many instances.  There is not a much a single warrior can do in these fights since there are many targets / big pulls.  So mages in the group bounce aggro off each other.  Mage + priest for the win.

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Rasix
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Reply #80 on: June 27, 2005, 10:42:12 AM

not so much the cloth wearers, rather the healers, since any intelligent Mage/Lock should be on whatever target the main assist is on.  If you are stupid enough to all pick different targets, then the best tank in the world isnt going to have a lot of hope of keeping aggro under controll.

Whoa.  Single target fights are not the only way to fight.  My groups use aoe damage effectively in many instances.  There is not a much a single warrior can do in these fights since there are many targets / big pulls.  So mages in the group bounce aggro off each other.  Mage + priest for the win.


In higher level instances? Unless you're 10 manning a 5 man instance, a mage going AOE happy is just going to get their ass pounded visciously.   

I remember grouping with a mage on her first trip to LBRS which was her first trip to any higher level instance.  She thought it was great idea to walk into the middle of our 5 mob pulls and blast away with AE.  Her armor broke before we go to Voone.

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Pococurante
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Reply #81 on: June 27, 2005, 12:21:06 PM

In higher level instances? Unless you're 10 manning a 5 man instance, a mage going AOE happy is just going to get their ass pounded visciously.

How to tell it's time to change tactics - when you have a big bouncing red arrow over your head at all times...
SurfD
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Reply #82 on: June 27, 2005, 02:08:55 PM

in my experience, AoE is usually a situational thing (the Skeletons when doing the Vectus Encounter, the whelps in the room above Rattlegore, the beginning groups of skeletons in Strath, things like that).  If you are AoEing EVERYTHING, even when the encounter could be much safer singleing out targets one at a time, I suppose that is your call.  What instances do you do that in, just out of curiosity?

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jpark
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Reply #83 on: June 27, 2005, 02:19:16 PM

in my experience, AoE is usually a situational thing (the Skeletons when doing the Vectus Encounter, the whelps in the room above Rattlegore, the beginning groups of skeletons in Strath, things like that).  If you are AoEing EVERYTHING, even when the encounter could be much safer singleing out targets one at a time, I suppose that is your call.  What instances do you do that in, just out of curiosity?

We have been very successful with this in Uldaman.  Grant you - that is not an uber instance - about mid level.  We are just starting Maruadon and ZF now.

We use 2 mages and 1 priest (and warrior and then anyone else).  One mage is frost the other arcane / fire.  As a priest I can Shield and heal them but of course with 5-7 mobs coming at you that does not last long.  So both mages take turns bouncing aggro between them - and the time the mobs spend running is added time for more damage from our team.  The frost mage can slow the movement rate of the mobs with blizzard and roots.  Good for control.  The fire/arcane mage is good for damage.  I pull aggro of course just by group healing - and the mages pull it in turn by doing major aoe damage.

Generally our group is in the level range of Uldaman (or was - we are moving on), initially all of us were below 45 except the fire / arcane mage who was 49 or so.

In cases where it is minions + mini boss in Uldaman the main tank and rogue take the mini boss and the mages aoe the minions.  Again they pass the aggro back and forth - among the 3 of us (2 mages, priest).  The Frost mage has a good way to shake aggro by going into Ice Form (or whatever it is called - a block of ice).  So when the Frost mage gets all the aggro coming his way - once per fight - he can go into his block of ice, and then the aggro has to stop and run all the way back to their original target.

Agreed, AoE will not work in all cases.  But for about 95% of Uldaman we have used it.  Too early to say yet if we can employ this in Mauradon or ZF.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 03:16:54 PM by jpark »

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
kaid
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Reply #84 on: June 27, 2005, 02:33:31 PM

aoe all depends on the group and the players. My group usually focuses fire but we switch to aoe fury in a heartbeat whenever it looks viable.

Then again my group is the oddest bunch of instance crawlers you can imagine. My normal instance moshing group is 5 hunters or sometimes 4 hunters and a warlock. If the mobs look at all weak we will start throwing down multishots and volley and that can do a scary ammount of damage VERY fast with 5 hunters throwing down at the same time. When the warlock is there adding in his aoes our aoe potential is huge and since we have 5 disposable taunting tanks we can tie down a lot of targets and keep them in the radius.

kaid
Yegolev
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Reply #85 on: June 30, 2005, 12:11:08 PM

So anyway, are warriors good yet?  I played right after release and they were shit back then.

Getting better all the time.  Really.  Now you can have fun instead of just riding the template wagon.

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WindupAtheist
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Reply #86 on: June 30, 2005, 03:13:41 PM

Think I'll make a warrior alt...

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