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Author Topic: Samwise's E3 Adventures  (Read 24318 times)
Evangolis
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Reply #35 on: May 20, 2005, 12:49:33 AM

I don't think you missed much with Spore; those reviews sounded like it was the exact same demo as GDC, on better hardware.  Suggests that they are farther from ready than GDC viewers made it sound, which jibes with the 3 year development timeline Wright mentioned at GDC.

I think the complaints with booth babes were about quality more than quantity.  I can't help but think that the ridiculous standards we set for beauty in our culture are probably driving perfectly attractive women into plastic surgery long before it is needed.  Of course, it's not like I'm any more innocent than anyone else.

Since I'm not there, can you PLEASE try and get some hands-on with Imperator. I really digged the concept when I first read about it, and would like to kill my fanboi-ism sooner rather than later.

Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously. Are you just trying to be nice? I don't understand. The game and concept look like *shit.* DAOC has some of the worst PVE in the genre and Imperator is nothing but that.

Jesus.

Brace yourself.  Not everyone agrees with you on your most deeply held beliefs.  I don't have an opinion about Imperator myself, but this might be a good time to get used to the idea that even if the game is as huge a steaming pile as you expect, there will be people who like it.

Although it is entertaining to watch you foam at the mouth.

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Furiously
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Reply #36 on: May 20, 2005, 12:54:37 AM

Plus you are insulting the godfather for many of us. But I'm sure that was your intention.

Samwise
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Reply #37 on: May 20, 2005, 01:00:47 AM

Quote
While I agree carrying around with a mouse shaped like a gun in this day and age is good way to get yourself a nice full cavity body search I do like the ergonomics on that thing where it has your wrist in a more neutral position.

I used one of the pistol mice at E3 last year, and thought it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard of.  I remain firm in that conviction.  Using it to play a FPS is completely unintuitive, because the way that you move the "pistol" doesn't have the effect on your crosshair that you'd think it would.  You "strafe" the pistol to turn back and forth, and push it away from you to look up, rather than, you know, pointing it like a gun.  I just don't see the point.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 01:03:22 AM by Samwise »

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
schild
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Reply #38 on: May 20, 2005, 01:21:39 AM

Brace yourself.  Not everyone agrees with you on your most deeply held beliefs.  I don't have an opinion about Imperator myself, but this might be a good time to get used to the idea that even if the game is as huge a steaming pile as you expect, there will be people who like it.

Although it is entertaining to watch you foam at the mouth.

1. It's raging douchebag week.
2. MJacobs isn't only going to make a shitty PvE EQ derivative involving Romans in Space, he's now going to shit all over the Warhammer license, which makes me foam more.
3. I firmly believe that Mythic is not capable of creating worlds with the breadth and scope of Azaroth or the polish of Guild Wars. Sorry, but the money simply and drive simply isn't there. All I've seen of Imperator points to art that isn't up to snuff and design that's simply boring.
4. Tabula Rasa and Imperator will probably be considered competitors. That's the sort of stuff that roflcopters are made from.
5. Warhammer, despite my love for the genre is Just Another Fantasy MMOG (tm). RvR would be better if it were based in Feudal Japan anyway. A second tier company (anyone not NCSoft, Blizzard or SOE) making another fantasy MMOG is just bad juju.
6. Romans in Space could have been executed well had it been crusade like with good vs evil type PvP with you choosing an alien race or choosing to be a member of the holy roman empire. Oh, and it should be a space sim.

Bah, it's all just so half-baked. Please note, before the Warhammer announcement the other day I was content on simply writing Imperator off as a decent idea executed badly. After the announcement, I'm having trouble keeping myself from vomiting on my keyboard.
HRose
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Reply #39 on: May 20, 2005, 02:19:39 AM

Come on. The commentary sounds like written by someone touching a game for the first time.

About DDO we know that it's quest based, that you need to press hotkeys in melee and that to fire a spell you need to select the mob and press a key.

So?

Write about what's different instead of describing how EVERY OTHER mmorpg already works.

-HRose / Abalieno
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schild
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Reply #40 on: May 20, 2005, 02:34:22 AM

Come on. The commentary sounds like written by someone touching a game for the first time.

Comeon. Most of your commentary sounds like it was written by someone using English for the first time. Admittedly, you've gotten better, but guess what, MMOGs haven't for the most part. I'm just glad he only spent five lines on combat. If you'd prefer, I can stretch it into 4 paragraphs of gobbledygook.
sidereal
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Reply #41 on: May 20, 2005, 02:37:59 AM

how EVERY OTHER mmorpg already works.

I think that's exactly the point.

THIS IS THE MOST I HAVE EVERY WANTED TO GET IN TO A BETA
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Reply #42 on: May 20, 2005, 02:43:01 AM

Re: Movies. From what I read in a preview a month or so ago, you can get NPCs to write scripts and such if you don't want to go into a fine-grained level of control; apparently, you can even get them to do sequels by putting old scripts on their desk before asking them to write. Ignoring the financial side is apparently also possible; you can run up huge amounts of debt with no impact aside from on your scoreboard ranking, which probably doesn't matter to you if you're trying to play in a sort of "sandbox mode". Still liking what I hear here.

B&W2... it's sounding a lot better than the original, but the original was made to sound like Animatronic Chocolate Jesus back in '99. That said, it reportedly has a "fisting" interface (I am not making this up), which alone should provide endless entertainment.

... Damnit. I can feel the creep of fanboy coming on. Thanks a lot.

Edit: Forgot the link. Oops.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 02:45:27 AM by Yoru »
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Reply #43 on: May 20, 2005, 07:01:03 AM

Since I'm not there, can you PLEASE try and get some hands-on with Imperator. I really digged the concept when I first read about it, and would like to kill my fanboi-ism sooner rather than later.

Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously. Are you just trying to be nice? I don't understand. The game and concept look like *shit.* DAOC has some of the worst PVE in the genre and Imperator is nothing but that.

Jesus.

Shut Up. We let you have your PSP nonsense thread, so let me have this until it is properly dead to me.

Fear the Backstab!
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Samwise
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Reply #44 on: May 20, 2005, 09:27:24 AM

Write about what's different instead of describing how EVERY OTHER mmorpg already works.

The main difference, as far as I can tell, is that you have to keep clicking.

The other difference, of course, is that it's based on the D&D license.  But you already knew that.

Also, I thought it was significant that I didn't have to run around a lot to get to my quest, which is what most MMOGs make you do.  So I mentioned that.

Other than that, I didn't see a lot to distinguish this from every other MMOG.  Are you surprised?

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
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Reply #45 on: May 20, 2005, 10:10:06 AM

Hrose, shut your stupid whore mouth until you can come up with an original thought. Or even a cogent one. Your VIKLAS is weak.

He gave you his impression of what he was shown. Did you expect fucking class balance or something from what was probably no more than 1 hour at a booth with a bazillion sound effects going off around him? What he said was it didn't suck, but it's combat (you know, the part you'll be doing the most) wasn't much different from current MMOG's. That's a telling statement right there.

My fanboy is inwardly excited about the Movies still. It could be an entirely incredible experience, and an innovative take on the old "economic sim" style of strategy game. Oh, and you can make Machinima. In a game. That's fucking awesome.

Imperator. Come on. Seriously. The very concept was shaky to me from the get go. It got shakier when they announced it wouldn't have PVP, which was the best part of their previous product. The earth practically parted like the Red Fucking Sea when they released screenshots and mroe descriptions. It is a steaming pile of /meh. None of it sounds the slightest bit innovative, or even interesting, and I dig the concept of Romans in Space. I also dig Mythic a great deal, thinking that from a business perspective, they should be who many of the dev houses out there now emulate. From a business perspective, they ARE Robot Jesus.

But goddamn. PVEing Romans in Space fighting fucking Mayans? WHAT... THE... FUCK? I cannot even imagine what this game is supposed to offer the market to differentiate it from anything coming up. There are already a number of good and not-so-good games that do lots of PVE, with better (and more popular) settings, and most of them have PVE mechanics that are more interesting than those of Mythic's only big product.

In other words, Imperator will have to really BE Robot Jesus to get over the significant hurdles of disinterest I have in the project.

MrHat
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Reply #46 on: May 20, 2005, 10:10:38 AM

Re: Movies. From what I read in a preview a month or so ago, you can get NPCs to write scripts and such if you don't want to go into a fine-grained level of control; apparently, you can even get them to do sequels by putting old scripts on their desk before asking them to write. Ignoring the financial side is apparently also possible; you can run up huge amounts of debt with no impact aside from on your scoreboard ranking, which probably doesn't matter to you if you're trying to play in a sort of "sandbox mode". Still liking what I hear here.

B&W2... it's sounding a lot better than the original, but the original was made to sound like Animatronic Chocolate Jesus back in '99. That said, it reportedly has a "fisting" interface (I am not making this up), which alone should provide endless entertainment.

... Damnit. I can feel the creep of fanboy coming on. Thanks a lot.

Edit: Forgot the link. Oops.

Bah.

Same here.

Peter has let me down in the past though.  But I will always pay for innovation.

And I'm a closet B&W fanboi.
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Reply #47 on: May 20, 2005, 11:38:58 AM

Quote
Use the "Fisting" interface to indulge your most wicked fantasy

Well, I'm in.

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Reply #48 on: May 20, 2005, 03:09:21 PM

schild
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Reply #49 on: May 20, 2005, 11:30:32 PM

His Last Day. *Sniff*

PS. It has awesome CoV information.
HRose
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Reply #50 on: May 21, 2005, 12:08:25 AM

Is the building aspect of CoV similar to The Sims?

The PvP aspect doesn't sound really bright..

-HRose / Abalieno
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Margalis
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Reply #51 on: May 21, 2005, 12:51:50 AM

But goddamn. PVEing Romans in Space fighting fucking Mayans? WHAT... THE... FUCK? I cannot even imagine what this game is supposed to offer the market to differentiate it from anything coming up. There are already a number of good and not-so-good games that do lots of PVE, with better (and more popular) settings, and most of them have PVE mechanics that are more interesting than those of Mythic's only big product.

I think this is kind of silly. The most popular MMORPG today is Orcs fighting Elves without a single original mechanic. Sometimes the devil in the details. Video games are 95% about execution.

Maybe what will differentiate it is that the gameplay will be substantially better. That's part of what differntiates WoW from it's competitors, even though a one paragraph description of WoW sounds exactly like every other MMORPG out there. And in many ways the gameplay of WoW is a lot better than other games - but that's not due to a rash of awesomely innovative ideas.

Maybe the game will be good. That's enough for me. You guys keep asking for good things but marketing differentiation is just that - marketing. Maybe there won't be any major bullet points that the marketing guys can use to spin it as something new, but if it's a good game that's good enough for us gamers no?

I'll just play the game and let the company that makes it worry about how to sell it.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
schild
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Reply #52 on: May 21, 2005, 12:58:27 AM

I just go on track record. And the company that has only given us the PvE of DAoC doesn't excite me much about a PvE game with any premise. Let alone Holy Space Romans. I mean, maybe if this were the greatest RvR game ever and they went the turnbased or clan based combat in Warhammer I'd be excited. But as it stands? U-n-d-e-r-w-h-e-l-m-e-d and righteously pissed off.
Samwise
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Reply #53 on: May 21, 2005, 03:45:54 AM

Is the building aspect of CoV similar to The Sims?

It's from a true 3d inside-looking-out perspective rather than a top-down isometric one.  I liked it.

(edit) Or is that the question you're asking?  It was otherwise pretty similar to the Sims, I'd say.  You pick a thing to build, you click to build it.  Pretty straightforward.

Quote
The PvP aspect doesn't sound really bright..

It seemed pretty reasonable to me.  The idea is to make PvP consensual (hence it's enabled by your acquisition of an Item of Power, which is obviously completely in your control), and not to place a constant obligation on the defenders to be logged in all day (hence the 1 hour of vulnerability per day, presumably with the defenders having a fair amount of control over when that hour is).

There are problems with that, of course, but it seems a good sight better than many of the alternatives (e.g. full open PvP).
« Last Edit: May 21, 2005, 03:47:25 AM by Samwise »

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Jain Zar
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Reply #54 on: May 21, 2005, 04:15:52 AM

Right now it seems as if City of Villains, and a couple of N Gage games are the only things to be truely excited about, with Molyneaux and Wright's projects a possible maybe.

That is so sad.
Murgos
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Reply #55 on: May 21, 2005, 09:49:47 AM

I was listening to MMOGradio yesterday and there was a lengthy interview with someone from Mythic about Imperator.  Basically it boiled down to that they are going to try and reproduce WoW's success by aiming for something between Guildwars and WoW on the accessibility scale almost the entire rest of the interview, which was entirely forgettable, was fluff about backstory and the usual little twists and turns to standard gameplay ideas.

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Shockeye
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Reply #56 on: May 21, 2005, 10:21:27 AM

I was listening to MMOGradio yesterday and there was a lengthy interview with someone from Mythic about Imperator.  Basically it boiled down to that they are going to try and reproduce WoW's success by aiming for something between Guildwars and WoW on the accessibility scale almost the entire rest of the interview, which was entirely forgettable, was fluff about backstory and the usual little twists and turns to standard gameplay ideas.

So you're saying they've given up on the PVE only and now are putting PVP into the game?
Murgos
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Reply #57 on: May 21, 2005, 10:35:34 AM

Err, no.  PVE only.  Just PVE thats even more casual friendly than WoW's but maybe a touch more grindy than Guildwars.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
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Reply #58 on: May 21, 2005, 11:33:00 AM

Quote
I'd also like to take this opportunity to compliment NCSoft on their stage show, which was far and away the best at E3, and possibly the only one worth watching on its own merits, even if it had nothing to do with the games. (image, image, image) Good music, good dancing, and no obnoxious mountebanks trying to rile up the crowd. I approved.

Actually that was the band doing the music for Auto Assault.

Llava
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Reply #59 on: May 21, 2005, 02:41:15 PM

In your article you mention that it's "not yet clear" whether attackers, defenders or neither will set vulnerability times for bases.  It's set by defenders, I believe, as I recall some developers saying so outside the context of E3.  I can't find a quote right now, though.  Rather, I COULD, but don't feel like it.

Hooray for inadequately covered asses!

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Samwise
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Reply #60 on: May 21, 2005, 05:01:38 PM

Quote
Actually that was the band doing the music for Auto Assault.

I hadn't caught that.  Kickass!

Quote
In your article you mention that it's "not yet clear" whether attackers, defenders or neither will set vulnerability times for bases.  It's set by defenders, I believe, as I recall some developers saying so outside the context of E3.  I can't find a quote right now, though.  Rather, I COULD, but don't feel like it.

The guy I spoke to indicated that they were sort of leaning that way, but it hadn't quite been set in stone yet.  I agree, having the defenders set the vuln time seems like the best/simplest thing to do, and that's probably what they'll end up doing.

Quote
Hooray for inadequately covered asses!

 :-D

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Stormwaltz
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Reply #61 on: May 21, 2005, 06:35:50 PM

Quote
Rather than purchasing and dropping prefab buildings, players in City of Villains can construct their lairs room by room and in three dimensions.

Very cool. The "non-prefab" bit is a stylistic choice, albeit one that works especially well with CoH. In most MMGs I've played, the exteriors of buildings reflect the interiors, and the interiors are integrated on the landscape - i.e. you can look out the windows. That increases immersion IMO. CoH's missions have always ignored the shape and size of the supposed building exteriors with TARDIS-like abandon. That their "housing" should do the same is consistent.

I'm looking forward to this. I haven't been able to indulge my inner virtual interior decorator since ACDM.

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

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schild
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Reply #62 on: May 21, 2005, 06:38:50 PM

I liked stacking fish and resources as furniture in SW:G. It was the best interior decorator sim evar.
Samwise
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Reply #63 on: May 21, 2005, 06:51:22 PM

I liked stacking fish and resources as furniture in SW:G. It was the best interior decorator sim evar.

It would have been if you could actually stack them instead of having everything sit at floor level and clip through everything else.  NRRGH!

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
schild
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Reply #64 on: May 21, 2005, 06:52:39 PM

I hear Vin Diesel could utilize the Z-Axis in SW:G.
MrHat
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Reply #65 on: May 21, 2005, 07:56:16 PM

I hear Vin Diesel could utilize the Z-Axis in SW:G.

He could also wrestle elephants.


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Hoax
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Reply #66 on: May 22, 2005, 04:39:20 PM

@Sam:  Thanks for the write-ups and the asses.

I think there should be a list of mmog's we just dont talk about.
Imperator should be on that list.

This is the end of my thoughts, it was good to hear Conan seems to be out of the vaporware stage but I sure wish I had more info on Auto Assault and/or Tabula Rasa.

I will play Hellgate:London, DiabloII didn't do it for me while the original was the first online game I played and basically changed my life.  I would like to recapture that magic and wield large guns customized with randomly generated power-ups.

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Calandryll
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Reply #67 on: May 23, 2005, 08:50:30 AM

If I may point out a few things about DDO:

  • You don't have to click on the monster to hit it. Lift-clicking initiates your attack. If you are facing the monter and it is in range, a D20 roll is made. You don't even need a mouse-cursor at all to fight things. There is no auto-attack. Works the same for ranged attacks as well.
  • You can block and avoid attacks. This means if you see that giant lifting it's foot to stomp you, you can either hit the shift key (to block) or try to move out of the way. If you avoid the attack it automatically misses. Holding down shift and moving makes your character tumble (if he can tumble) - another way to avoid an attack.
  • Did you not get a chance to adventure with a group? The dynamics of the game change a lot when in a party - and not just in combat. Rogues can pick locks and disarm traps. Fighters can bash down doors, etc.

Also, did you get a chance to do any of the puzzles in the dungeon? A lot of the strategy players used to defeat the dungeon was using the environment (such as the traps) against the monsters.
AOFanboi
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Reply #68 on: May 23, 2005, 10:31:01 AM

it was good to hear Conan seems to be out of the vaporware stage
Speaking of strange Norwegian developers making MMORPGs, the company Running Games are doing pre-production work on of Medieval Kingdoms, apparently made in cooperation with that grand old man, Richard Bartle. (He has joined their advisory Board.)

Current: Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs
Samwise
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Reply #69 on: May 23, 2005, 11:08:58 AM

You don't have to click on the monster to hit it. Lift-clicking initiates your attack. If you are facing the monter and it is in range, a D20 roll is made. You don't even need a mouse-cursor at all to fight things. There is no auto-attack. Works the same for ranged attacks as well.

There is no auto-attack, but you have to click to attack, but not on the monster?  So if I click on empty air then I'll still take an attack, at the last thing that I attacked, as long as I'm still facing it?

I remember trying at one point to figure out whether it was necessary to keep clicking on the bad guy, and I found that if I didn't, my "targeted creature" indicator emptied and my toon just stood there getting wailed on.  Maybe I'd accidentally turned away, though - the default key setup kept throwing me off when I was trying to move around in combat (QWES to move instead of WASD).

Quote
Did you not get a chance to adventure with a group? The dynamics of the game change a lot when in a party - and not just in combat. Rogues can pick locks and disarm traps. Fighters can bash down doors, etc.

Unfortunately, no - I never saw any other players in the game world, so it wasn't clear to me how I'd go about forming a group.  I expect that once it's properly massive it won't be an issue.  I did get the picture about multiple ways to handle a door, though - when I played as a barbarian, I bashed it down, and when I played as a cleric, I flamestriked it.  Cute.   smiley

Quote
Also, did you get a chance to do any of the puzzles in the dungeon? A lot of the strategy players used to defeat the dungeon was using the environment (such as the traps) against the monsters.

I only saw one trap area (that one big hallway full of traps), but I didn't get the puzzle aspect, other than seeing the dead bodies and figuring out that the area I was about to walk into was dangerous.  I tried to handle the traps like a jumping puzzle (hopping over the spinning blades, timing the spiky things and running over them when they were down), but I took damage even when nothing was visibly hitting me, so I gave up on that and just ran through each room, healing myself up at each resting point.  I figured that I was probably supposed to have a rogue in the group to be able to do anything more sophisticated.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
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