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Author Topic: A Flaw in City of Heroes  (Read 17582 times)
Fargull
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Reply #35 on: April 22, 2004, 12:54:22 PM

I want waffles, without waffles, the game is the sux.

"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." John Steinbeck
SirBruce
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Reply #36 on: April 22, 2004, 01:39:05 PM

Yeah, and I want pie.

No, seriously, crafting I can see being left out, particularly given the game's mechanics.  But I'd like to see some mini-games.  I'd like to have, you know, housing... not just guild halls, but apartments.  I'd like to actually be able to see my trophies instead of just read about them.

I think I'd also like some phat lewtz.  It would be easy enough to implement a "special" series of slots in the Enhancement screen to hold these sorts of global effect abilities.  They already allow for temporary powers, which work nearly the same way.

I'd like some more background-story driven plots.  Imagine when you ask your contact, you're given a choice not just between two missions (street busting or private mission) but one choice that pops up randomly based on your origin that unveals one of several possible origin plots.  You could learn who was really behind your "accident" that gave you your powers, or the cosmic entity that gave your magic wielding abilities, or whatever.  There's a lot of writing involved there, I know, but it would be very interesting.  And not necessarily binding... if your particular character has a really unique origin in your mind, you don't have to pick the mission, or you can just ignore what it tells you about your origins, but still enjoy the ride.

I just want more than cracking heads all the time.

Bruce
schild
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Reply #37 on: April 22, 2004, 01:44:12 PM

Quote from: SirBruce
I think I'd also like some phat lewtz.  It would be easy enough to implement a "special" series of slots in the Enhancement screen to hold these sorts of global effect abilities.  They already allow for temporary powers, which work nearly the same way.

Bruce


Already in game. Some high level quests give you enhancement slots that can affect 2 abilities. I'm sure they'll make global ones later. As it stands, they've got the core gameplay polished to a shine. That's what matters to me on the day of release.
daveNYC
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Reply #38 on: April 22, 2004, 01:46:39 PM

Since we're throwing shit out there, how about alter-egos and missions that incorporate them.  

Something similar to Superman II, when Clark has to sneak away from Lois, so Superman can save the stupid kid who fell over the falls.
schild
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Reply #39 on: April 22, 2004, 01:48:17 PM

Quote from: daveNYC
Since we're throwing shit out there, how about alter-egos and missions that incorporate them.  

Something similar to Superman II, when Clark has to sneak away from Lois, so Superman can save the stupid kid who fell over the falls.


I've been thinking about alter-ego's for a long time. I really want them to implement a 'street-clothes' type alt, that lets you walk around and not be agro-d for damage but kinda mugged, you can either reveal yourself or wait for another hero to come save you. The + side to this is you can take a chance and walk through areas much higher than your level and not die - the downside is, it can take a while for someone who is upper level to come save your ass on Talos Island.
Venkman
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Reply #40 on: April 22, 2004, 01:53:44 PM

You guys are soo six hours ago :) That's what I meant with Incognito. I just type too fucking much sometimes though...
daveNYC
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Reply #41 on: April 22, 2004, 01:58:12 PM

Ah, that's what you were talking about.  I read disguise and I thought some sort of disguise like Batman in The Dark Knight Returns.
Venkman
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Reply #42 on: April 22, 2004, 01:59:52 PM

Quote from: daveNYC
Ah, that's what you were talking about.  I read disguise and I thought some sort of disguise like Batman in The Dark Knight Returns.

Well heck, if I confused things, at least it lead to referencing a really cool story :) I want that effing batmobile.
Alluvian
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Reply #43 on: April 22, 2004, 02:24:03 PM

Quote
I'd like some more background-story driven plots. Imagine when you ask your contact, you're given a choice not just between two missions (street busting or private mission) but one choice that pops up randomly based on your origin that unveals one of several possible origin plots. You could learn who was really behind your "accident" that gave you your powers, or the cosmic entity that gave your magic wielding abilities, or whatever



First, the backstory of the missions is already the best I have seen in an mmog.  Mainly because they are not just 1 mission, but arcs linked together.  When I foiled that Vazh from tainting the cities water supply I really felt good.  Not because that last mission really kicked ass but because it was the culmination of about 10-15 missions that started at level 2 and ended at level 13.  I got a little id card souveneir that describes the whole story in detail and how I played my part in uncovering and thwarting the plot.  Some of the plot missions were just kill 10 stuff but with clues that would lead me to the next mission.

It was really cool.

As far as stories on your origins... hell no.  Who wants the game to tell you how your character got his origins?  I know for each of my characters I have my own idea in my head based on their appearance and origin.  I don't want my fire/fire guy to be told he has his powers because he ate a genetically engineered guatemalen insanity pepper.  No, he happened to be ex-covert ops whose enhancements are government based.  The fire ability is natural but the cybernetics enhance it.  He learned too much during the course of his job and started incriminating his boss who then tried to have him killed.  After killing his boss, the hit squad and burning down a government building, the government just wanted to shut him up so they asked him what he wanted.  It was just a simple end to his contract that required him to work for the agency until he had paid off the price of his cybernetics, which was pretty much never at government salary.  No grudge, no conspiracy shit.  Just one crooked boss and some underlings doing what they thought was their job who unfortunately got killed in the process.

This is just what I thought in character generation.  It isn't anything fancy and is pretty damn derivative, but it is better in my head than being told what my origin was.  No way the game can KNOW my personal origin story and then on the fly make a mission based on it.  That would require a human.

Leave it up to the game and I could be the result of some mad scientist trying to make the worlds hottest chili powder and I was the unfortunate test subject.  Then maybe the game could give me a quest to destroy the  secretly restarted chili powder factory.  But I would not be fucking happy with it.


My other character is a mutant.  He thinks he is a troll who thinks he is a Ranger.  It is part of a sort of inside joke that I make a ranger in every game I play.  So I followed up on it.  Being born green and with regenerative powers is not easy and he became pretty mentally unstable this is just part of a psychotic break he suffered while growing up.  Combining his weird powers, appearance, and a DND character he once played into a split personality that has totally buried whoever he originally was.  He currently too busy trying to bend sticks to make a bow without breaking them.  This pisses him off to no end so he goes and kills bad people between attempts.  If we ever get alter egos he may occasionally flip back to his original self and at that time I might actually decide to flesh it out.  In the meantime it is a great reason to roleplay a troll running around a modern city smashing things.  I find that fun.  And not just a troll, but a mentally fucked up troll.

My other characters were just goofy so I didn't come up with backstories.  With names like BETA BOY and bright purple with pink polka dots its not like I was going to go live with them as they were.  I was just seeing if I could burn out anyones retinas.  Unfortunately I play mostly third person so it sort of backfired.
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Reply #44 on: April 22, 2004, 10:13:21 PM

Quote from: schild

Already in game. Some high level quests give you enhancement slots that can affect 2 abilities. I'm sure they'll make global ones later. As it stands, they've got the core gameplay polished to a shine. That's what matters to me on the day of release.


Huh?  How does that work?

Bruce
SirBruce
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Reply #45 on: April 22, 2004, 10:15:15 PM

Quote
if your particular character has a really unique origin in your mind, you don't have to pick the mission, or you can just ignore what it tells you about your origins, but still enjoy the ride.


Because reading comprehension is hard.

Bruce
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Reply #46 on: April 23, 2004, 06:12:52 AM

Quote from: SirBruce

I'd like some more background-story driven plots.  Imagine when you ask your contact, you're given a choice not just between two missions (street busting or private mission) but one choice that pops up randomly based on your origin that unveals one of several possible origin plots.  You could learn who was really behind your "accident" that gave you your powers, or the cosmic entity that gave your magic wielding abilities, or whatever.  There's a lot of writing involved there, I know, but it would be very interesting.  And not necessarily binding... if your particular character has a really unique origin in your mind, you don't have to pick the mission, or you can just ignore what it tells you about your origins, but still enjoy the ride.

I just want more than cracking heads all the time.


Not a fan of the background driven plots simply b/c they focused in the wrong direction (I.E. stuff that would have happen out of the game) and would too easy to ignore; in other words, lots of effort for not much benefit to most of the players.  Rather, I want them to continue focusing on variances of the missions themselves.

They already have plans along these lines, fer instance, they mentioned in their plans thinks like getting knocked out in a 5th column mission and waking up in a prision rather than the hospital, which you now have to escape from and may meet contacts/interesting people inside...

Hell, they already have stealth powers, so adding some sneakery type missions ought to be a no brainer.  Or disguise type inflitration missions where you can dress up like a member of the CoT and attempt to learn inside information, perhaps resulting in a CoT contact that gives you mission against other foe groups?

Even goofball things like team task relay races and such.  Hell, hold the 1st annual super powered olympics or something.

There's a LOT they can do even without adding pvp and mini games.

There is one cool thing they could do with backstory for your unique character.  If they wanted to, the could incorporate player character backstories into that monthly comic book they are sending out.  Deciding who gets picked would be the rub, but wouldn't that be neat to have Cryptic contact you to ask details about your story and actual create a comic from it?

Xilren

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Alluvian
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Reply #47 on: April 23, 2004, 07:23:30 AM

Quote from: SirBruce
Quote
if your particular character has a really unique origin in your mind, you don't have to pick the mission, or you can just ignore what it tells you about your origins, but still enjoy the ride.


Because reading comprehension is hard.

Bruce


No, no problem with reading comprehension.  Just that I think it is an abyssmal idea with or without the part you quoted.  No matter how many backstories you wrote you would have people get the same exact mission.  And it is a ton of effort for a feature many would actively disdain.  But what do I care?  I have enough confidence in the devs that they will never add a feature anything like this.
kaid
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Reply #48 on: April 23, 2004, 09:46:16 AM

There already are some stealth missions. One mission in the freak show story line gives you a limited duration freakshow disguise which really does disguise your character. You can either fight your way through the mission or don your disguise and finish the mission sneaky like.


There are also many missions were your objective is to find something from a box/crate/puter whatever.  If you have steath or invis powers  you can complete these missions and never swing a puch.

Kaid
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Reply #49 on: April 23, 2004, 01:10:55 PM

I'd like to see some more random-type heroic events other than just stopping muggings. Things like a burning building filled with tenets that you have to save. It would be almost like a puzzle game, as opposed to just straight combat. You could even add in some 5th column arsonists and shit to give it a combat sprucing.

Of course, I'd also like them to add some form of climbing/swinging into the game, along with the capes. The discussions about having to escape from a cell and fight back to your teammates if you die during a mission is another good way to spruce up the gameplay.

I'm not worried about the longevity of the game. I'll play it 'til I'm not having fun, then I'll quit. Thanks to the sidekicking and the fun of character creation, I don't feel the need to keep up with anyone's levels. I think attempting to shoehorn something like crafting into the game would only result in much suckitude; the lack of crafting fits the world. I do think you COULD add crafting options for some types of templates (like Tech origins being able to upgrade their gear, Magic types making new spells or whatever), but I don't think the game suffers for its lack.

Card games, Olympics and Danger Room duels/team duels would be some nice additions to the game as well.

Venkman
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Reply #50 on: April 23, 2004, 01:19:04 PM

Quote
Of course, I'd also like them to add some form of climbing/swinging into the game, along with the capes

/agree. I'd really be nice to have some sort of grappling hook type thing. Visions of Spawn and Batman...
kaid
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Reply #51 on: April 23, 2004, 01:46:29 PM

Swinging I don't think would ever work right due to the problems I mentioned in another thread about anchor points and the physics engine. Wall crawling should be very doable and is probably one of those things that will get added down the road.

As it stands with combat jump you can scale just about any building that is not completly flat. The number of buildings that is completly flat is VERY tiny.

With just CJ I have scaled the tallest buildings in the city on a number of occasions.

Kaid
SirBruce
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Reply #52 on: April 23, 2004, 05:48:38 PM

Quote from: Alluvian
Quote from: SirBruce
Quote
if your particular character has a really unique origin in your mind, you don't have to pick the mission, or you can just ignore what it tells you about your origins, but still enjoy the ride.


Because reading comprehension is hard.

Bruce


No, no problem with reading comprehension.  Just that I think it is an abyssmal idea with or without the part you quoted.


Then why did you say ...

Quote from: Alluvian

As far as stories on your origins... hell no. Who wants the game to tell you how your character got his origins? I know for each of my characters I have my own idea in my head based on their appearance and origin. I don't want my fire/fire guy to be told he has his powers because he ate a genetically engineered guatemalen insanity pepper


... when clearly that doesn't apply?  Just to show off?

Yes, I realize you have other objections.  'Twas not the point.

Bruce
SirBruce
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Reply #53 on: April 23, 2004, 05:54:06 PM

Quote from: kaid

There are also many missions were your objective is to find something from a box/crate/puter whatever.  If you have steath or invis powers  you can complete these missions and never swing a puch.


Yeah, I've had some of those.  And in many missions you don't have to kill everything to accomplish it.  However, you probably SHOULD anyway... because a lot of times, they're spawns of the appropriate level for you to defeat, meaning they'll be good experience and maybe drop some good loot.  And the boss might drop something really cool you are unlikely to find out on the streets.

If you tried to go through all of those missions without killing anyone, you'd just wind up "behind the curve" on experience, where all your missions are done and you still haven't levelled, so you have to go out and grind by killing stuff anyway, and this time, it might not be tuned to your level requirements.

Having stuff like burning buildings is a great idea.  Also, I must say I am heavily disappointed that none of the terrain objects in the streets are destructable -- I think Freedom Force left me jaded in that regard.  But I think it would be a lot cooler to see mailboxes and lightpoles and parked cars getting smashed.  (And you could have the server respawn them back as new within 60 seconds or something, so the whole city wouldn't become a razed disaster area.)

Bruce
Venkman
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Reply #54 on: April 23, 2004, 07:25:36 PM

I would actually love it if we could interact with the citizens and their cars in some way. While it's cool to have a "living city", it feels more like I'm looking at a fish tank for all the affect I have on it.
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Reply #55 on: April 23, 2004, 08:14:34 PM

Quote from: SirBruce
Quote from: schild

Already in game. Some high level quests give you enhancement slots that can affect 2 abilities. I'm sure they'll make global ones later. As it stands, they've got the core gameplay polished to a shine. That's what matters to me on the day of release.


Huh?  How does that work?

Bruce


As far as I understand its like a two SO enhs combined. So this special enhancement is a SO damage and SO accuracy combined into one enhancement. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that was what the bumped players were talking about. This is the prize for defeating that big blob villian (forgot his name, but its Haimdon or something) that requires dozens of lv 40 heroes to fight.

Quote from: SirBruce
Having stuff like burning buildings is a great idea


The timed mission of saving the hostages and disarming the bombs is a pretty cool mission. Finding that last bomb is a real pain thou, it took me and a sidekick about 5 minutes to just find that last bomb (the mission was in an 5 story office building with about 5 bombs and 5 hostages, 45 minute timer.)
SirBruce
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Reply #56 on: April 23, 2004, 11:04:39 PM

Oh, okay, that's different.  You're describing an enhancement that grants, for example, both damage and accuracy to one power.  I was talking about an enhancement that would "globally" enhance the damage of any and all powers you selected.

Bruce
schild
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Reply #57 on: April 23, 2004, 11:14:48 PM

No no. These are enhancements slots that effect more than one power. You can slot a damage into it and it will for example enhance the 'swipe' and 'uh some other power here' (memory lapse), but you can only put one enhancement into the slot.

It's not quite global but it would allow for a single damage enhancer to enhance two seperate powers. Or a DO damage, or whatever other enhancement you wanted to throw in.
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