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Author Topic: Epic world drops  (Read 20951 times)
Rasix
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I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #35 on: April 18, 2005, 10:31:29 AM

There are a few weapons though now that people are beginning to bitch about.  The Arcanite Reaper is getting a lot of attention.  Massive burst DPS in the hands of a capable warrior.  There are a number of comparable weapons, though, and the main gist of all of the bitching is that certain warrior builds just do nutty damage and completely shit kick rogues if they're not careful. 


-Rasix
Triforcer
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Reply #36 on: April 18, 2005, 10:42:47 AM

Given the way devs fellate rogues, I'm sure that will be remedied.  Rogues alone have gotten all CC nerfed into worthlessness.  Given that half the players are rogues, the devs will never give them the sorely needed nerf they deserve until the day all casters finally quit the game.

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Rasix
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Posts: 15024

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #37 on: April 18, 2005, 10:49:26 AM

Given the way devs fellate rogues, I'm sure that will be remedied.  Rogues alone have gotten all CC nerfed into worthlessness.  Given that half the players are rogues, the devs will never give them the sorely needed nerf they deserve until the day all casters finally quit the game.

Well, I guess it was due time for a completely idiotic post from you. 

-Rasix
Triforcer
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Reply #38 on: April 18, 2005, 10:54:21 AM

Given the way devs fellate rogues, I'm sure that will be remedied.  Rogues alone have gotten all CC nerfed into worthlessness.  Given that half the players are rogues, the devs will never give them the sorely needed nerf they deserve until the day all casters finally quit the game.

Well, I guess it was due time for a completely idiotic post from you. 

How can you interpret the PvP trinkets as anything more than a sop to rogue whining?  The devs actually said on the boards somewhere "we want to avoid players being immobilized or slowed whenever possible in pvp".  How dumb are you to not see how that unbalances the entire game in favor of rogues and warriors?


All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Hoax
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Reply #39 on: April 18, 2005, 11:17:18 AM

Currently there isn't a major item-grind but there will be.  Look at how superior the MC purple set is, another ub3r item that comes to mind is the 2nd tier purple warlock set item that has a 2% chance to proc fear when hit.

Give them some time, there will definately be must-have item-grind items.  I guarentee it.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
chinslim
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Reply #40 on: April 18, 2005, 11:17:51 AM

Quote
You've actually hit upon a major problem with WoW's itemization. Non-cloth wearing classes have a wide variety of equipment available that can have a major impact on their character's effectiveness. Melee can dream about epic weapons that can add 20-30% to their damage output over the best blues. Even spell casters benefit a lot from + spell crit gear and their MC epic sets at least add the right stats. Priests however for the most part have very few options for improving their characters once they fill out their blue class sets.

I fully agree with you.  I've been running MC weekly, which takes up 2 long days and additional time throughout the week in restocking potions(need about ~10-15 major mana potions per day as a healer).  My toon's a priest and we bring about 7-8 priests on MC raids - the most of any class, which dilutes down the rolling pool, compared to 4-5 rogues, 5 warriors, or 2-3 druids.  Most cloth caster loot, especially priest, can be characterized as slightly better set items from the level 54-55 stuff, and sometimes even worse if you're going for +stamina or other perceived pvp-centric advantages.  I'm seeing alot of shadow/fire resistance on rogue loot, and I'm wondering where my resist stun/eye gouge/cheapshot stuff is :)

Best caster stuff right now is crafted(Belt of the Archmage, Chromatic Cloak), or comes from DM, which has lots of +crit from spells stuff.
Rasix
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I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #41 on: April 18, 2005, 11:25:47 AM

Quote
How can you interpret the PvP trinkets as anything more than a sop to rogue whining?  The devs actually said on the boards somewhere "we want to avoid players being immobilized or slowed whenever possible in pvp".  How dumb are you to not see how that unbalances the entire game in favor of rogues and warriors?

I don't even know the specifics on the new PVP trinkets. I haven't bothered. It's not an issue for me until it's actually, you know, in the game on the actual servers.  As far as unbalancing the entire game in favor of two classes, how about we see how it plays out before hyperbolizing to hell and back? 

Btw, immobilization affects more than just warriors/rogues.  Us godmode shaman hate it when we're kept at a distance in most situations. I assume the same would be with paladins.  Gotta keep us happy or the world falls apart.

Anyhow, crowd control + pvp = problems. I don't expect this to be sorted out on the first pass and Blizzard has no qualms about reversing themselves and nerfing the shit out of whatever they see fit.   It'll be an issue for a while and there will be much back and forth.   I just hope they aren't as bad at the back and forth as Dark Age.

I wasn't even sure these trinkets (assuming one removes snares) were needed if they add some sort of diminishing returns.  Rogues already have one form of anti-slowing in Vanish (pray your ass aint dotted).

-Rasix
Rasix
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I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #42 on: April 18, 2005, 11:31:22 AM

Currently there isn't a major item-grind but there will be.  Look at how superior the MC purple set is, another ub3r item that comes to mind is the 2nd tier purple warlock set item that has a 2% chance to proc fear when hit.

Give them some time, there will definately be must-have item-grind items.  I guarentee it.


God I hate MC.  HATE HATE HATE (My guild has been really bad at it too, not enough priests and we're horde).  Yah, MC could fuck some things up depending on how eye popping the drops become.  Of course, it's really a top 1% area, so this shit isn't going to be all over the place.  Planning on an MC drop isn't really feasible for most people unless you're really in a guild that owns the place on a consistent basis (but then you'd likely be in a fairly large guild too).

-Rasix
Paelos
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Reply #43 on: April 18, 2005, 11:31:40 AM

Long snares in pvp are absolutely retarded. They always have been. It effectively makes the melee class worthless. Slows or cripples, ok. Short burst snares, like 2-3 seconds, ok. Otherwise why even bother going out in the field? Everybody just rolls a mage and we fire magic missiles at each other until we get bored. Casters being the dominant PvP class has always been a problem for me, especially since the tanks had no recourse to standing around waiting for the mezz to wear off.

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SurfD
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Reply #44 on: April 18, 2005, 11:50:51 AM

hehe, 3 of the people in my guild now have This.

Ouch...

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Shockeye
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Reply #45 on: April 18, 2005, 11:52:13 AM

hehe, 3 of the people in my guild now have This.

Ouch...

Catass much?
Triforcer
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Reply #46 on: April 18, 2005, 11:59:12 AM

Long snares in pvp are absolutely retarded. They always have been. It effectively makes the melee class worthless. Slows or cripples, ok. Short burst snares, like 2-3 seconds, ok. Otherwise why even bother going out in the field? Everybody just rolls a mage and we fire magic missiles at each other until we get bored. Casters being the dominant PvP class has always been a problem for me, especially since the tanks had no recourse to standing around waiting for the mezz to wear off.

That's fine.  As a basic design decision, I have no problem if they remove/minimize the impact of CC.  The key word in that sentence is BASIC- if they didn't want stuns/snares/roots to be an integral part of the game, they should have decided that on the pre-alpha drawing table.  The problem is now that the mage class with poly and frost nova, the lock with seduce/fear and the priest with fear RELY on CC effects being in the game.  We get this to counteract for the fact that if anyone with anything pointy gets remotely near us, our pitiful HP is reduced to zero in 4-5 seconds. 

My question to you is- if they gradually keep nerfing removing CC, what do you concede must be given us to balance the game?  I'd be fine with no poly on my mage if you give me plate armor.  But do you really want a game where a warrior in plate and a mage in plate stand toe to toe and attack until one is dead?  The simple fact is that PvP is the most fun when there are rich and varied tactics, and tactics all involve MOVEMENT.  Bliz's stated position of being sad if a warrior or rogue is not on you every single second of the game will simply lead to bad and boring mechanics.

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Malathor
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Reply #47 on: April 18, 2005, 12:07:23 PM

hehe, 3 of the people in my guild now have This.

Ouch...

Catass much?

Ignorant much?

That item requires nothing more than a lucky drop off of any DM boss and an invite to a successful onxyia run, neither of which takes even an hour.

"Too much is always better than not enough." -Dobbs
Shockeye
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Reply #48 on: April 18, 2005, 12:08:38 PM

hehe, 3 of the people in my guild now have This.

Ouch...

Catass much?

Ignorant much?

That item requires nothing more than a lucky drop off of any DM boss and an invite to a successful onxyia run, neither of which takes even an hour.

Uh-huh. Gotcha boss. Two hours and it's mine. I bow to your superiorness.
El Gallo
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Reply #49 on: April 18, 2005, 12:13:31 PM

Arcanite Reaper is the best PvP warrior weapon in the game (though from posts I have seen, there will be comparable or better weapons from the upgraded molten core and better weapons to the uberest of the uber PvP catasses in the honor system).  Blizzard never really thought through the consequences of "instant attacks that do base weapon damage + something else" combined with "ultra high damage, slow as hell weapon."  Mortal Strike + Overpower + Reaper = TEH PWN.

The PvP-oriented powergamer warriors have been using these forever.  I guess the decreasing prices of arcanite have made them more widely available.    

Rogues bitch up a storm about it because warriors are one of the few classes that usually beat rogues.  Even I can beat rogues, and I suck.  It still amazes me how many rogues hit "evade" when fighting me.  Yes, please dodge all of my attacks.  It's not like every time you dodge, my instant-cast, un-dodgable, 70% chance-to-crit overpower button lights up you motard.  

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
Rasix
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Reply #50 on: April 18, 2005, 12:28:06 PM


Ignorant much?

That item requires nothing more than a lucky drop off of any DM boss and an invite to a successful onxyia run, neither of which takes even an hour.

Getting 40 odd people keyed for Onyxia takes a bit of catassing.   All that UBRS adds up :)

I've been keyed for Onyxia for like.. ever.  God, it sucks being on a backwater server where the alliance to horde ratio is like 4:1.  No Horde guild has even made a significant attempt at her.

-Rasix
Paelos
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Reply #51 on: April 18, 2005, 12:33:12 PM

Long snares in pvp are absolutely retarded. They always have been. It effectively makes the melee class worthless. Slows or cripples, ok. Short burst snares, like 2-3 seconds, ok. Otherwise why even bother going out in the field? Everybody just rolls a mage and we fire magic missiles at each other until we get bored. Casters being the dominant PvP class has always been a problem for me, especially since the tanks had no recourse to standing around waiting for the mezz to wear off.

That's fine.  As a basic design decision, I have no problem if they remove/minimize the impact of CC.  The key word in that sentence is BASIC- if they didn't want stuns/snares/roots to be an integral part of the game, they should have decided that on the pre-alpha drawing table.  The problem is now that the mage class with poly and frost nova, the lock with seduce/fear and the priest with fear RELY on CC effects being in the game.  We get this to counteract for the fact that if anyone with anything pointy gets remotely near us, our pitiful HP is reduced to zero in 4-5 seconds. 

My question to you is- if they gradually keep nerfing removing CC, what do you concede must be given us to balance the game?  I'd be fine with no poly on my mage if you give me plate armor.  But do you really want a game where a warrior in plate and a mage in plate stand toe to toe and attack until one is dead?  The simple fact is that PvP is the most fun when there are rich and varied tactics, and tactics all involve MOVEMENT.  Bliz's stated position of being sad if a warrior or rogue is not on you every single second of the game will simply lead to bad and boring mechanics.

So you are saying since it started that way, it must stay that way? Uh, how about just replacing snares and providing slows mages can outrun if 1 on 1. Anything is better than effectively removing the meleers from the equation and turning PvP into a magic show. It's the fact that I can charge a mage, whack him once maybe, get rooted, and then wait for death while he casts his arsenal at me. At least with a slow you make the caster move around instead of happily unleashing once you are stuck.

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Amp
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Reply #52 on: April 18, 2005, 12:33:55 PM

I hope they nerf the shit out of frost mages  snares and take poly out of the game.  I've played frost from 0-60.  I played for its survivability and the fact i'm most useful in a group.   Have no intrest in playing fire (millions of fire mages)  or arcane which has what...one aggressive spell.
It will give me reason to go out and see the sun again.  Mage spells are boring.  After watching my warlock buddy play beside me, i've decided that mages have the most generic boring set of spells the game devs could have come up with.  Nerfing sheep so people don't lose control of thier characters.....Mind Control anyone?  How about that root the druids get that has no timer.
Here's to hoping they  nerf the shit out of that moonfire instanotimerDoT that mages have no chance against or that totally  retarded pruge you shamans on godmode have.  An instant cast little spell requiring nothing more then gold to buy and that wipes out my entire specialized frost line of buffs,  a shield that took all my talant points and then  60+ seconds of sitting just to apply them,  gone instantly and it  probably eat's my first born too..   Thus nerfing my character into a paper wearing pea-shooter.
The harder they nerf us the faster I can get back to real life.  Summer's coming.  I don't want to play this game with such nice weather but holy god it can be addicting.

The one thing I can say about the rogues and that trinket is that well, they are the most useless class in the game.  I feel sorry for them.  I was grouped with one that wouldnt stfu about how she sits in town all day looking for groups.
I told her it might have something to do with that 0-59 levels you spent ganking newbs and the fact you picked a totally useless class for group play.  I don't even sheep rogues (1vs1)  so that trinket  makes little difference to me.

This might sound like a bit of a whiney post but really its not.  I'm happy with my character the way it is.  And I really do hope they totally fuck over the frost mage just to nerf the shaman a very tiny amount.

Oh and and hi haven't posted in a long while because i don't have much to say.  I enjoy lurking.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2005, 12:35:33 PM by Amp »

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RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #53 on: April 18, 2005, 12:43:54 PM

Oh, well if people are talking about what epics they've seen/gotten, I'll just toss out the leggings I got in Strathome.  They are the reason that I'll never wear a full set of Valor or Might gear.

Jayce
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Reply #54 on: April 18, 2005, 12:47:07 PM

The harder they nerf us the faster I can get back to real life.  Summer's coming.  I don't want to play this game with such nice weather but holy god it can be addicting.

Sounds like you have bigger problems than can be solved by anything Blizzard can do for you.

Witty banter not included.
Amp
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Reply #55 on: April 18, 2005, 01:02:30 PM

No it's just a little cold up here in the winter and this makes a nice distraction from it.  (frost mage...lives where it's cold...see a theme here)
And I think you totally missed the sarcasm in my post.  Or didn't, but you did manage not to address anything related to gaming in my post!  Good job.

No high level epic drops for me yet.  Been hitting Dire Maul alot lately and managed to kill the Prince in a group of 2 druids (one tanking bosses) a rogue (that whiney one from the above post...she really knew her way around though), a pally and a mage (me).
I've also pretty well cleared BRD of all it's quests and still never even seen a purple drop in a group i've been in.
 I do have this http://www.thottbot.com/?i=5579 which was given to me by a friend.  He's managed to get quite a few purples.  I think 2 of them dropped in sorrow hill just farming for minion stones.
That ring procs like an sob.  When you kill someone encased in the block they die like a statue.  Which also happened to me once with my ice block.  It's immunity to everything and removes all negative effects but somehow I managed to die in that block once and ended up a statue.

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Malathor
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Reply #56 on: April 18, 2005, 01:13:07 PM


Getting 40 odd people keyed for Onyxia takes a bit of catassing.   All that UBRS adds up :)

I've been keyed for Onyxia for like.. ever.  God, it sucks being on a backwater server where the alliance to horde ratio is like 4:1.  No Horde guild has even made a significant attempt at her.

Hmm..good point. My veiwpoint is distorted. We have no less than 4 different alliance guilds farming her on my server, so it seems almost trivial now, and since I was given blood on my 2nd UBRS ever (such was the need for priests there). But you are right, at one point it required a ton of effort (aka: catassing) from guilds just to get there.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2005, 01:20:54 PM by Malathor »

"Too much is always better than not enough." -Dobbs
Sky
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Reply #57 on: April 18, 2005, 03:30:09 PM

That item requires nothing more than a lucky drop off of any DM boss and an invite to a successful onxyia run, neither of which takes even an hour.
Yeah, JUST THAT EASY. Set it and forget it. Moron.

Anyway, the real reason I'm posting is just to say OMGHIAMP!!!!
Threash
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Reply #58 on: April 18, 2005, 03:41:40 PM

There are no +30% epic swords of newb slaying or anything like that.  The difference between a purple and a blue weapon is very slight.  This is my current weapon after trying to get an epic sword for a while: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=10606, and this is its epic counter part: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=8407.  The main advantage of epic stuff is lower level requirement, which makes it barely better than blues in most cases.  Not even the level 60 epic stuff from molten core is that far ahead of the rest, in fact from recent postings by tigole i believe its getting a boost because it was hardly worth the effort. 

I am the .00000001428%
Hoax
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Reply #59 on: April 18, 2005, 04:12:12 PM

On a pvp server my dwarf priest wasn't going to touch the fucking devout set, at that time not only did it look like shit but the green masters of the eagle stuff had higher int/sta boosts and any other stat is fucking worthless.

Good thing blizz isn't going to do anything about spirit being the worst fucking stat every created.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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chinslim
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Reply #60 on: April 18, 2005, 05:00:57 PM

Quote
The difference between a purple and a blue weapon is very slight.

This is the /jizz of all hunters currently: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=36517

Meanwhile, settling for http://www.thottbot.com/?i=27150 or http://www.thottbot.com/?i=27973 as relatively common drops is not bad to hold them over til those plans drop for us.
Sky
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Reply #61 on: April 18, 2005, 05:18:25 PM

Quote
This is the /jizz of all hunters currently: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=36517
Cool, another item I'll never see. Then again, I don't "jizz" over items in a goddamned video game, soo....
Quote
Not even the level 60 epic stuff from molten core is that far ahead of the rest, in fact from recent postings by tigole i believe its getting a boost because it was hardly worth the effort. 
Yes, folks who already spend more time in this game, thus have more time to find items, gear and gold, need more of an advantage! The sound of Blizzard "buffing" the uber endgame is the sound of my cancellation.

Inevitable anyway, but I held out hope that maybe WoW would be the game to stop the catering to the lunatic fringe. I guess I forgot who they have on staff.

Ah well, summertime is coming, and Geldon needs more fodder for his "OMG WOW IS DYING!!" ideals. My cancellation should make him feel good. Of course, the reasons run counter to his ideas, but hey.

The uber/casual rift is the new pve/pvp rift imo. Look who won that last one (hint: not the lunatic fringe, to the detriment of folks who enjoyed open pvp).
Hoax
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Reply #62 on: April 18, 2005, 05:29:11 PM

The thing is the pve/pvp rift is not auto-fucking-matic.

What do you expect?  The game to cater to people who play less?  How would that even work?

"Well if your /played is under 5days you get double xp!"

"The more time your character spends solo'ing the higher your drop %!"

"If you reach the level cap with a /played time 2 days or more over the server avg you will recieve your classes purple set in the mail!"

Now I'm not advocating for raid content, I'm advocating for pvp that doesn't require so little skill that items become close to the end-all-be-all of determing pvp outcome.  But on that note I wouldn't even accuse WoW of being like this, the balance is fairly decent at this time (compared to SB's fessor/prelates/hurlbarb, or DAOC's stealth classes/early thurms/minstrels) and the combat is fast paced enough that people do suck at it.

We all know that within 6months WoW will have power creeped items that drop in stupid long timesink task areas that require ub3r guild organization and tolerance for bullshit.  But for now, I dont think its a valid complaint. 

You dont want to grind instances?  Dont.  Hell the one good tidbit I picked up was they were actually making instances where you weren't allowed to bring 40 people.  If you can't get together 5-10 competent people you enjoy grouping with you shouldn't be playing mmog's.


A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Sky
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Reply #63 on: April 18, 2005, 05:50:02 PM

Quote
If you can't get together 5-10 competent people you enjoy grouping with you shouldn't be playing mmog's.
You're quite correct, if not for the reasons you think.

Maybe you can tell me to go play Morrowind next, oh dispenser of great wisdom?
Quote
How would that even work?
Since reading comprehension is apparently a rare skill, I'll play along. For starters:
Quote
Not even the level 60 epic stuff from molten core is that far ahead of the rest, in fact from recent postings by tigole i believe its getting a boost because it was hardly worth the effort.
Don't do that.

Like I said, no sweat off my nuts, plenty of other stufrf to do. It's just too bad that lifeless OCD geeks have made such a shittery of a promising genre. Now...get off this board, isn't there phat lewtz to camp?
chinslim
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Reply #64 on: April 18, 2005, 05:51:48 PM

Quote
Yah, MC could fuck some things up depending on how eye popping the drops become.  Of course, it's really a top 1% area, so this shit isn't going to be all over the place.  Planning on an MC drop isn't really feasible for most people unless you're really in a guild that owns the place on a consistent basis (but then you'd likely be in a fairly large guild too).

The first 1 or 2 months of Molten Core crawling and Onyxia attempting were really painful for us.  Frequent wipes, few drops, discouragement from lack of success causing frequent tardiness and no-shows.  Now we've got it down where weekly, we get about 20 epic drops, and everyone wants in on the raid.  The core raiding group is a conglomeration of guilds and governed by the DKP system, since you really get hard-pressed to find 40 reliable, good players.  It doesn't take a whole lot of catassing to have a successful group, though you do need a core of dedicated players.  If you can get it scheduled and leaving on time, you can do other things in your life as well.
Jayce
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Reply #65 on: April 18, 2005, 05:56:35 PM

Seems to me that they should make the more uber items only really effective in PvE by creating other items that counter the effects of the first.

Quote
The core raiding group is a conglomeration of guilds and governed by the DKP system, since you really get hard-pressed to find 40 reliable, good players.

Wait, I have only heard of DKP in relation to that guild Afterlife.  Are you in Afterlife?

Because if so, then yes, you're a catass.

Witty banter not included.
Rasix
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Reply #66 on: April 18, 2005, 06:03:51 PM

Most high end guilds that don't want to break up over loot bickering use DKP (with some modifications based on your preferences).  It's really simple and it rewards those that contribute more to the guild. 

-Rasix
Hoax
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Reply #67 on: April 18, 2005, 08:39:56 PM

@Sky:

Ummm I must have missed something, you bruced three tiny bits of my post then threw in somebody else at the end.  You said you would play along and explain how rewarding people for playing LESS would work but I must have failed my reading comp roll again...   cry

Oh and I'm not even playing WoW lol, so why should I go catass?  I quit that stupid game due to the death-respawn-rush faggotry their pvp consists of and sold my account to a guildmate.

If you were using that final quote about them pumping up the MC stats as proof that Blizzard is gay and will cater to the ub3r crowd you should have quoted this line from the post of mine you cut into tiny bits:

"We all know that within 6months WoW will have power creeped items that drop in stupid long timesink task areas that require ub3r guild organization and tolerance for bullshit.  But for now, I dont think its a valid complaint."

I dont think Blizz will blow their rediculous gear load this early, instead I would expect a very small amount (read:3-5) items be bumped to "omfg l33t" status but its still too early for them to start making "I win" items.  But yeah I suppose you've got me there if the MC item boost is major...

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Jayce
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2647

Diluted Fool


Reply #68 on: April 19, 2005, 04:27:55 AM

Most high end guilds that don't want to break up over loot bickering use DKP (with some modifications based on your preferences).  It's really simple and it rewards those that contribute more to the guild. 

Ahh, then I stand corrected.  I guess I'm just not up on my uberguild lingo.

Witty banter not included.
Dren
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2419


Reply #69 on: April 19, 2005, 08:14:29 AM

The guild I"m in now is "uber" and is using DKP.  It is a simple system and does reward those that work hard at being at all the raids, etc.  In terms of loot from raids, I do think that people that go out of their way to be at them consistently should get rewarded for them.

At my rate, I'll have enough DKP to compete for uber loot in maybe July, but whatever.

Each succesful raid nets you 2 dkp points.  Each epic item you win at a raid will decrease your DKP total a certain amount (depending on the "uberness" of the item.)  Simple to comprehend.  Damned hard for the guild leaders to control.  Ours do pretty well at it.

I have 2 points by the way.
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