Thoughts on trade and tradeskills

[Sky]

As for the other crafting professions: blacksmithing, leatherworking, tailoring are useless IMO, you can find stuff better all the time.

I'm wearing about 1/3 leatherworked gear that I made (and I'm level 52). Not everyone has the dough to buy AH stuff or the inclination to get into the instancing bullshit.

That said, the high end leatherworking stuff is basically crap, and I'm seriously considering dropping it for herb/alch, so I can have some 'free' potions. But up through the levels it served me extremely well, I've always worn a significant amount of my crafted gear.

WoW is really two games. One is all about instances. I play the other.

[Sky]

(note I'm not bitching about instancing in general, just WoW's (and eq2's) group-only instancing, which brings in the worst of the EQ mindset into an otherwise fine game)

[Slayerik]

Um, Arcanite reaper...Dragonscale armor...Mooncloth anything

All these items are top end and very profitable/wearable.

The reaper is one of the best 2h weapons in the game, tough item requirememnts but worth it. The Blue dragonscale my shaman friend wears allows him a 6k mana pool...

I agree, i always have used dropped items over crafted ones...in the endgame though, your skills will become more usefull.

[Rasix]

The Blue dragonscale my shaman friend wears allows him a 6k mana pool...

I agree, i always have used dropped items over crafted ones...in the endgame though, your skills will become more usefull.

6k mana would be nice.  I kinda like having over 5k armor and 3500 hp arounds though.  Being a shaman I'm never "supposed" to be getting hit, but it happens.  And it helps now that I don't crumple when getting wailed on.  But yah, blue dragonscale is a very viable alternative especially in the roll most shaman find themselves in.  Hell for rogues you always have the Devilsaur or Stormshroud armors.   Hell, the wicked leather stuff isn't that bad to fill out the rest.  A lot of classes can get by on the crafted stuff.

If you ever find yourself in the end game, the gear will come.  Hell, 3 items away from no more green crap. 

[Sogrinaugh]

Sky, what class are you?  As slayerik was saying, and i have heard the same from many shamen, top-end leatherworking is awesome.  In your case, even more so, since you dont like running dungeons.

[Slayerik]

I personally have 6 of my 8 Devout pieces, missing the robe and belt.

I basically carry 3 outfits around ... Instance/Group PVP (Devout), Caster Duel (Super intellect). and rogue/warrior Duel (STA/INT/ARMOR ring of protection).

I wear a crafted mooncloth vest ATM that has VERY nice stats. Anyways, enough about me. I rule :)

EDIT: Sky, farm blue dragonscales in Azshara and get some very nice gear without ever touching an instance.

[Sky]

If you ever find yourself in the end game, the gear will come.

By end game, you mean instances? I've been getting less blue as time goes on, I think I'm down to a single blue item - my +21 agi (and other stats) leather pants that I've had since I was around level 40...maybe ten levels since I've found a blue item. So when do I magically start finding good gear, when I put up with the baggage that instances bring (pickup groups, politics, loot arguing, hunters suck, tiem sink, etc, etc, etc)?

since you dont like running dungeons.

I do like the instances, they rock. I just don't like the bullshit I have to deal with to enjoy them.

Sky, what class are you?

Hunter. I agree, leatherworking kicks ass for shaman, and for rogues (+ stealth items, etc). It was decent for a hunter as I levelled up, but dragonscale is a bunch of bad options, and the others didn't seem much better. I mean, a +25 spi breastplate is nice...but not at the cost of 16 agi and 12 sta (or whatever I'm wearing now, scorpid bp), just seems like high end dragonscale is a bunch of bad tradeoffs. (noted on blue dragonscale, that's why I took it, but no recipes yet)

I'm sure I'm going to be flamed on the hunter boards. They were talking about whether hunters should be allowed to roll on leather items in instances, some people feel hunters should only be allowed to roll on mail items.

I wear two cloth items at level 52.

[Rasix]

I wear two cloth items at level 52.

Ewwww....

Btw, Dire Maul is full of easy to get blues.  Anyone can do Dire Maul.

As for rolling on gear:  If you can and will use it, roll for it.   

However, realize as a hunter you are a mail class.  And compared to leather and especially cloth (jesus man, whatever stats you're getting out of it aren't worth the ac hit, really), mail is very good in the AC department.  Hunters get hit, hunters can offtank with their pets, hunters should have decent AC.  Leather I would leave for the druids and rogues if they can and will use it.  It's just common courtesy, it tends to go a long way (I love it when hunters don't give me shit over obvious shaman gear).  A lot of druids and rogues like to use their leather status as a "get items for free" card, though.  If it's not an upgrade for them, it shouldn't be defact to their coffers.

If you're having a hard time finding gear, post what you have and I can help find some easily questable/craftable upgrades.  Really, I got a lot of hunter mail leveling up that I wore until I could start switching it out.

[Sky]

I wouldn't say "eww". I'm not a tank, I'm more akin to a caster. I'm in melee maybe 5% of the time unless I'm intentionally in there. It's a total waste for me to wear +armor stuff.

Cloth, otoh, which is made for casters, gives me great benefits as a hunter, especially the +int benefits. Because of the lower armor value, the stat bonuses are usually very nice.

...I can solo Dire Maul at level 52? Or duo with a lvl 27 mage (the eqholic's levelling away...soon I should be a regular duo...finally)

[Rasix]

DM's 55-60. You'd be just fine in the east wing at 55.  Leveling speeds up a lot once you get over the 49-52 hump.   Winterspring, Felwood, Azshara, Ungoro, WPL: the levels will just start hitting you before you know it.  For instances for you at the moment, you could do either Zul'Farak or Temple.  Temple I didn't really enjoy that much and it's a tad time consuming.

Having that sort of gear is fine if you're just going to solo, but instance runs aren't quite that much of a controlled situation.  You're going to be asked to pull, you're going to be asked to offtank, you're going to be in melee quite a bit actually and you're going to get smacked around a bit.  It's best not to get torn two new assholes. 

[Shockeye]

It's best not to get torn two new assholes. 

Because getting torn one new asshole is dandy?

[Sky]

I have no trouble levelling, nor am I in a hurry to do so. And again, I don't do "instance runs", so I really don't care how other people feel I should be outfitted. What I have works well for me.

That said, I've tried to do Zul'Farrek. I can't make it past the first bunch of mobs, 3 elites are just too much for me, even when they're like 8 levels below me, heck, I struggle with -5 elites by themselves (green dragonkin outside the Temple). This was with my 'tank' gear on, high ac/sta/agi. There was simply no way to survive all three that I could find, I wasted an afternoon trying and gave up on it. And I figured that was best case scenario, because every instance I've been in groups up mobs like that, and I had a zone line right behind me. Thus I gave up on soloing instances, too (I last tried this past weekend at ZF)...

[Rasix]

Instances past Zul'Farak can at best by badasses be 4-manned.  5 man is doable on everything else that isn't designed for guilds.  You're not going to find solo instance content.  It just isn't there.   But if you want to stay solitary, there's more than enough stuff you can kill.  You can do tradeskills.  You can pvp.  You just can't really do the dungeon crawls.  I'd be suprised if they ever put in a level 55-60 one to three man instance.   I wouldn't be disappointed, however. 

[Threash]

I think alchemy is the best trade skill there is, its usefull from level 1 to 60 and beyond and easy to raise/cheap.  The crafting professions are all fairly decent, as a rogue up until level 59 before i started doing lots of instance runs i found about half my gear came from leather working (wicked leather armor + devilsaur set are very good for rogues).  I know there are epic tailoring recipes for each cloth class, im not sure how good they are for the class but they are lvl 60 epic items so i assume they are good.  The anti fear trinket itself makes armosmithing worthwhile in my book, at least in pvp, i haven't played a plate class yet so i don't know just how usefull it would be in the long run.  I assume like with leatherworking, blacksmithing will keep you decently equiped until 60 when you start running instances for set/blue armor.  Enchanting really shines at high levels, but its mostly useless leveling up, i wouldn't recommend raising this as you level up as it becomes SO much easier to raise once you reach higher levels.  Right now im an enchanter/herbalist with an alchemist alt and i find that works extremely well.

If you want to make cash don't go the tradeskill route, just take two gathering professions and watch the money roll in.  Another good way to make money as a rogue is with enchanting, being able to farm lower level instances for blue items to sell is good money, but disenchanting them and selling the shards usually doubles/triples the cash.

[Dren]

So far I have solo tested SM at the highest and it was doable with my Paladin at level 54.  I'm at 57 now and will try some higher stuff, but for the most part, I'd agree.  Zul or Uldaman have just too many mobs swarm you to do solo.  I suppose if your 60 and decked out with the very best gear you might stand a chance, but the pain wouldn't be worth the gain. (constantly coming close to death, long downtimes to recover from each fight, etc.)

I died multiple times in SM by the way so I'd call it even on worth the loot or not.  It was slow when I wasn't dieing too.  However, the drop rate is far far better in instances than anywhere else so it is oh so tempting.

[WayAbvPar]

I was thinking about trying a farming run through the Doan section (Library?) of SM- any chance I could make it through at 44? Or maybe I will just stealth through and pickpocket everything, then try Doan himself.

[Rasix]

I've heard Doan's doable at 44.  I should probably try with my rogue just as a rite of passage.   Some mindnumbing poison might help you avoid his AE and just remember to run the hell away from him and go bandage when he does it.

[Paelos]

Quick question, what's an arcanite bar going for on your servers? I saw about 6 on mine averaging out at about a 27g buyout yesterday. I ask because I found two arcane crystals back to back, so I'm looking to pay off my tradeskilling debt.

[MrHat]

Quick question, what's an arcanite bar going for on your servers? I saw about 6 on mine averaging out at about a 27g buyout yesterday. I ask because I found two arcane crystals back to back, so I'm looking to pay off my tradeskilling debt.

That's about right.  They range from 25-30 depending on who has crystals.  I bought 3 crystals for 55g the other day, and turned a quick profit on 2 transumting alts (one is a friends account).  So basically I got 1 aracanite bar for free.

[Jeff Kelly]

I was farming in the badlands to get the money for my mount and I have made 62 gold in 8 hours off of the scalding whelplings and greater earth elementals there. I also got two level ups in the process. If you have skinning/leatherworking I especially recommend the scalding whelplings. They drop some nice loot and also thick leather when skinned. That was significantly more money than I would have ever earned by tradeskilling.

Jeff

[Triforcer]

It must be said that engineering= uber 1v1 PvP badassery.  If I'm wearing my standard engineer PvP gear, I beat anyone of +4 levels and below with ease (except priests, of course).  The Goblin Rocket Helmet should be a .001 drop 1000 gold epic item instead of a BOE 235 engineering item.  Even so, I STILL am the only one I've EVER seen wearing it.  More ownage for me...

[Llava]

Goblin Rocket Helmet... not familiar with that one.  It's in Goblin Engineering, I assume?  What does it do?

EDIT

Nevermind.  http://www.thottbot.com/?i=11272

[dEOS]

Question :
As a Hunter (lvl 34), I am doing skinning / leatherworking. I am considering moving to mining / something else and I was wondering if radar detection for Hunters are exclusive with radar detection for mining/herbalism ?

Opinion on Leatherworking:
I am skinning/leatherworking, I never had any problem making progress. However the stuff I made I rarely used if I attempted to do an instance in the same level range. Dropped stuff in instances basically lasted me and made crafted gear useless to me up to the next instance run where I could replace stuff.

There is a severe competition between stuff that you can craft and stuff that people find in instances. Therefore the only worthwhile crafting skills are those that bring a benefit to loot items or that you can't find in the loot system. Leatherworking IMO falls in that category of crafting goods that are overshadowed by loot items. If it wasn't for the armor kits, I would have dropped leatherworking.

There is indeed, as someone noted, two WoW games: the instances one, and the other.

d

[Trippy]

Question :
As a Hunter (lvl 34), I am doing skinning / leatherworking. I am considering moving to mining / something else and I was wondering if radar detection for Hunters are exclusive with radar detection for mining/herbalism ?

Yes, you can only "track" on radar one thing at a time where "Find Minerals" and "Find Herbs" count as tracking. So you can't, for example, track both Beasts and Minerals at the same time.

[SurfD]

I find that tailoring's versatility comes more from the Very High End tailorables (Mooncloth Stuff is Sweet, The 3 Wizardweave items give you almost 60 fire resistance for MC, Felcloth gear for ShadowDamage, BAGS) etc.  In all honesty, I dont think they EVER entended Trade Skills to have End Products better then Quest/Rares/Set drops.  Not to mention that 2 of the 3 best crit pieces (Gloves of Spell Mastery, Belt of The Archmage) and the Epic Caster stuff (Robe of the Archmage/Robe of the Void etc are Tailor only, and untill recently, were Bind on Pickup (meaning the ONLY way you used to be able to get them was be a 300 Tailor.)

[Fabricated]

I find that tailoring's versatility comes more from the Very High End tailorables (Mooncloth Stuff is Sweet, The 3 Wizardweave items give you almost 60 fire resistance for MC, Felcloth gear for ShadowDamage, BAGS) etc. In all honesty, I dont think they EVER entended Trade Skills to have End Products better then Quest/Rares/Set drops. Not to mention that 2 of the 3 best crit pieces (Gloves of Spell Mastery, Belt of The Archmage) and the Epic Caster stuff (Robe of the Archmage/Robe of the Void etc are Tailor only, and untill recently, were Bind on Pickup (meaning the ONLY way you used to be able to get them was be a 300 Tailor.)

Generally I've found that most green tradeskill items are better than equal level dropped greens, and that tradeskill blues are slightly less or about as powerful as equal level dropped blues.

Except for the Green Iron Hauberk, which is way better than most all other mail pieces for several levels.