The Sandman (Netflix)

[Trippy]

Official Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83ClbRPRDXU

August 5.

Trailer breakdown from the man himself (lots of spoilers): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e54llvV_tc

An inside look (from Gaiman and others): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fyja48qK2g

[RhyssaFireheart]

I can't wait.  It looks like they are really putting a lot into this and bringing the world to life. 

[Samwise]

I hate getting my hopes up, because I really liked the comics and that's always a recipe for having hopes dashed, but what I've seen so far looks good.

[Morat20]

I've been watching racist nitwits argue with Neil Gaiman himself over casting.

It's been both hilarious and really fucking sad. They're so salty Death is being played by a black woman.

[Trippy]

I read the comics when they came out and Death's look there, at least with the original artist and character designer, as a young (white) goth girl, is iconic. Given the origins / inspiration for the goth look (Victorian-era mourning) it was a great choice for Death to take that appearance and I thought the youth aspect was a nice juxtaposition to the Death usually being associated with old age / skeletons / etc.. I'll just have to watch it and see if this new "look" for Death fits in with this adaption.

[Morat20]

Death canonically looks different to every person she meets.  IIRC during the run she's male, female, black, white, and alien.

And again, Neil's own creation and he was behind the casting.

And, and I cannot stress this enough, black people can be goth too. It's not exactly a white person only style.

[Samwise]

I had the same kneejerk "she doesn't look exactly like the comic character" reaction, and then I said "self, no actual actress is actually going to be the comic character you had a weird crush on in the 90s except maybe Winona Ryder also from the 90s" and I got over it.

I think it's pretty cool that they can now have a nonbinary actor playing Desire, given that Desire was written as nonbinary before that word had even been coined.   

[Morat20]

I had the same kneejerk "she doesn't look exactly like the comic character" reaction, and then I said "self, no actual actress is actually going to be the comic character you had a weird crush on in the 90s except maybe Winona Ryder also from the 90s" and I got over it.

I think it's pretty cool that they can now have a nonbinary actor playing Desire, given that Desire was written as nonbinary before that word had even been coined.   

I mean don't get me wrong, the graphic novel design absolutely appealed to 90s me.

Honestly still to 2020s me.

[Threash]

I had the same kneejerk "she doesn't look exactly like the comic character" reaction, and then I said "self, no actual actress is actually going to be the comic character you had a weird crush on in the 90s except maybe Winona Ryder also from the 90s" and I got over it.

You mean Fairuza Balk.

[HaemishM]

I had the same kneejerk "she doesn't look exactly like the comic character" reaction, and then I said "self, no actual actress is actually going to be the comic character you had a weird crush on in the 90s except maybe Winona Ryder also from the 90s" and I got over it.

This. There was about 2 seconds of reflexive "That's not what the character looks like" before I realize that it was a fucking manifestation of an abstract concept, it can look like anyone it damn well wants.

[RhyssaFireheart]

The teaser for Death does a good job showing how the character is and how the actor fits.  I thought it was perfect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoaCAOHaLL4

And Death's iconic look was based off Cinamon Hadley.

[lamaros]

Never seen the source material and I have no idea what this is from the trailer. Can't say it excites, but will give it a look based off y'all excitement.

[Riggswolfe]

I'm still having trouble adjusting to the Death change. I have t-shirts and an actual action figure of Death so it's hard for me to adjust to her not looking like I'm used to. That said, the actress did a pretty good job in that clip of showing Death's kindness and warmness.

[Khaldun]

It feels like this is one of the problems with the original, really. Gaiman does take some pains to say "these people look differently depending on who is seeing them" and that gets visualized, but the default visualizations are very much for a white audience at the time it originally came out: Dream, Death, Desire, Despair are all kind of 80s/90s goth/emo/white; Destruction is a big white guy; Delirium is a white girl; The Corinthian is white; Fiddler's Green is white; Lucien is white; Eve is white; Cain and Abel are white (though there he's reusing older DC visualizations, cleverly); Matthew is a raven. Destiny is . Since the story says "these beings look differently to everybody" AND they also *ought* to be more universal, this is the best-case example of "it's time to recast and revisualize while keeping everything else the same".

[RhyssaFireheart]

And I think that's why some of the changes to characters were made with Gaiman's blessing.  Cain and Abel are played by SEAsian actors, Lucien is now Lucienne and black, not sure about any other major changes.  I'm fine with any of it since it's been long enough that I don't have set images locked in my head of what anyone looks like.

I mean, sure Death is the biggest change but from the clip the actor has the total aesthetic for the character down.  It was never predicated on Death being white with Robert Smith hair, that's just the most common way she was shown.

Watching some other clips and stuff, I guess they changed the whole Hell scenario and Lucifer is the sole ruler rather than being part of a triumvirate.  Making three rulers of Hell must have been a DC push for some kind of continuity with other series and the show decided to do away with that.

[Riggswolfe]

It feels like this is one of the problems with the original, really. Gaiman does take some pains to say "these people look differently depending on who is seeing them" and that gets visualized, but the default visualizations are very much for a white audience at the time it originally came out: Dream, Death, Desire, Despair are all kind of 80s/90s goth/emo/white; Destruction is a big white guy; Delirium is a white girl; The Corinthian is white; Fiddler's Green is white; Lucien is white; Eve is white; Cain and Abel are white (though there he's reusing older DC visualizations, cleverly); Matthew is a raven. Destiny is . Since the story says "these beings look differently to everybody" AND they also *ought* to be more universal, this is the best-case example of "it's time to recast and revisualize while keeping everything else the same".

I think in my case the only character I was truly attached to was Death. I actually only collected her graphic novels and rarely read the mainline Sandman comics. I can only vaguely picture Dream in my head but if you ask me what Death looks like I can see her in my head very clearly. I'm not throwing a temper tantrum about the change don't get me wrong. I just think for the first couple of episodes it'll nag in the back of my mind a bit.

I hope this actress doesn't get the kind of racist attacks that tend to pop up in, say, the Star Wars fandom though I'm sure it's already happening and I've been blissfully unaware of it so far.

[Surlyboi]

I had the same kneejerk "she doesn't look exactly like the comic character" reaction, and then I said "self, no actual actress is actually going to be the comic character you had a weird crush on in the 90s except maybe Winona Ryder also from the 90s" and I got over it.

You mean Fairuza Balk.

I bind you, Nancy.

But yeah, you right.

[lamaros]

The first episode was a bit tv movie quality, hopefully it gets better.

Edit: not much better in the second episode. Later episodes are a little better, but the show is still pretty darn naff.

Edit edit: Ok ep 5 is decent. Apart from all the bits with the sandman. Following episodes are better too. It's like a different, much better, show from episode 5 onwards. And pretty consistently so.

Overall about half the season was ok, in a naff way, and half was just really bad.

[Phildo]

That sounds about right in line with the Comics.  The first book is ok, but the series doesn't really pick up until the second or third book.

[Khaldun]

I can remember thinking "yeah yeah" until the John Dee issue, where I was like "oh fuck wow".

[Phildo]

Wife and I just watched the episode that covers the John Dee diner incident and I thought it was really well done.  Good job of ratcheting the tension up until it all boils over.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Wife and I just watched the episode that covers the John Dee diner incident and I thought it was really well done.  Good job of ratcheting the tension up until it all boils over.

Yep, that whole episode was just tension and painful and awesome to watch.  The Good Samaritan giving him a ride - that whole trip with the tension just ramping up as she got more and more nervous about him, and then... giving him a ride to the diner after he gets the ruby.  I was like "Woman, what are you DOING?!?!"

That sounds about right in line with the Comics.  The first book is ok, but the series doesn't really pick up until the second or third book.

Yeah, Morpheus is really a stiff for the first few issues/episodes.  It's only as he starts to loosen up a bit and learn that things get better.  That change is him is really well shown in the Hob Gadling episode.  You see him going from "why should I bother with these creatures?" to "Friends don't let friends down."

I'd forgotten the Rose Walker / Vortex twist at the end though.  I wasn't making the connection with the mention about eye color.  And the actor playing Destiny was perfect.

[WayAbvPar]

Started slow, got decent halfway through, ended pretty well. I liked the one of ep the best of all of them.

[Khaldun]

I've been re-reading the comics and finding that I don't love the storytelling all that much. I like some of the ideas and some of the character work is excellent, but I don't know that it's the classic we all used to think it was.

[Typhon]

I didn't read the comic till decades after the hype and just couldn't understand it (the hype).  I actually like the show more than the comic.

[Trippy]

Comics targeted towards more mature audiences were just starting to become a thing (in comic book circles) when Sandman was released. DC, in fact, created an imprint "Vertigo" to specifically publish these types of comics including Sandman (a Sandman story was actually the first to be published under the label), and created lot of buzz in the industry. This is where a lot of the hype comes from -- i.e. it was something that people hadn't seen before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertigo_Comics

[Hawkbit]

Comics targeted towards more mature audiences were just starting to become a thing (in comic book circles) when Sandman was released. DC, in fact, created an imprint "Vertigo" to specifically publish these types of comics including Sandman (a Sandman story was actually the first to be published under the label), and created lot of buzz in the industry. This is where a lot of the hype comes from -- i.e. it was something that people hadn't seen before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertigo_Comics

I really want to emphasize this post, as there was almost nothing in this space anything like what Gaiman and all were doing. I snagged the three issue run of Death as new long after Sandman was a thing - in fact, I didn't even know Sandman actually was a thing until after reading Death. Crumb and Pekar were a thing, sure, but Sandman was pretty obscure stuff for the time. It's not perfect, but it made a distinct imprint in my memory. I feel the show did a good job of reliving it.

[pxib]

Also Sandman took a while to hit their stride and then ended pretty much at peak quality, which is rare.  Since then it has never been ruined, jumped sharks, or otherwise overstayed its welcome.

Still, yes... a lot of the fame is because of how unusual it was at the time. There are today plenty of comics as mature, complex, and intriguing as Sandman was in its finest issues.

[naum]

I didn't read the comic till decades after the hype and just couldn't understand it (the hype).  I actually like the show more than the comic.

Reading through the series now & I too think show is better than the original comic & I like the updates & wrinkles he added (not 100% but on the whole, they've been mostly good).