NFL 2021: Long-hauler Edition

[Cyrrex]

It’s one thing to plan on a replacement. It’s another to draft a replacement and supposedly plan for a trade and not tell your HoF-bound QB of those plans.

It's a story we have heard dozens of times.  Rodgers is not so special that he is immune to it.  And "plan for a trade" is a strong statement, is that even verified?  And if so, that also happens to just about every one of them.

name some?

The actual details and methods are specific to the individual cases, but....Joe Montana.  Peyton Manning.  Kurt Warner.  Brett Favre probably made his own mess, but the fact is that his team - like all teams do - was already trying to groom his replacement (let's consider the irony for a moment).  Russell Wilson has been shopped around this year.  It is a pretty normal thing for NFL teams to draft/trade for the future, they would be stupid not to.  The idea that they should have to clear everything with the team's biggest ego is a bit silly.

[Trippy]

Yeah, no.

Montana and Young were teammates that competed for the starting position for a number of years. Eventually Montana's injuries forced him long-term to the bench and Young won an MVP and that was it for Montana (on the Niners). Peyton was coming off of neck surgery and the Colts didn't think he could play (well) again. Turns out they were right and he couldn't but he still somehow managed to win a Super Bowl as a Broncos. They hadn't drafted Luck at that point when they cut Peyton, either. Warner was injured and literally couldn't grip the football at that time he was traded.

[HaemishM]

Had Andrew Luck not been the prospect he was, the Colts probably wouldn't have gotten rid of Manning when they did. After all, his performances hadn't really dropped and even when he went to the Broncos, it wasn't until midway through his last season that his arm just disintegrated. Favre did flirt over and over again with retirement but even when they drafted Rodgers, they didn't consult with Favre and look how that turned out. A HOF QB and team legend spent years estranged all because they couldn't be assed to communicate some pretty basic, understandable shit.

Nobody is saying that they have to ask Rodgers to APPROVE of the drafting of his replacement. It's a business and everyone who plays it understands that part of the equation. It is, however, common goddamn courtesy to at least treat players with respect rather than just as interchangeable parts. How much good do you think it does Jordan Love to sit on the bench behind a guy who has enough of a grudge that he won't bother to mentor the young kid? That's exactly what happened to Rodgers, because Favre was treated the same way and acted very similar. I don't think it's too much to ask that your employer gives a little deference and respect to the feelings of long-serving employees, especially ones whose bodies get destroyed in the process of serving the company.

Or they could just be dicks, not tell him a word, and watch as the whole thing blows up in their faces. Because NOW they have a team legend who wants nothing to do with the team, and whose trade value has dropped because other teams know that if you take the step of even having the discussion about trading him, you HAVE to take what's given because you've now blown your leverage. It's not just bad communication, it's bad business.

[Cyrrex]

Yeah, no.

Montana and Young were teammates that competed for the starting position for a number of years. Eventually Montana's injuries forced him long-term to the bench and Young won an MVP and that was it for Montana (on the Niners). Peyton was coming off of neck surgery and the Colts didn't think he could play (well) again. Turns out they were right and he couldn't but he still somehow managed to win a Super Bowl as a Broncos. They hadn't drafted Luck at that point when they cut Peyton, either. Warner was injured and literally couldn't grip the football at that time he was traded.

Um, Peyton Manning had 3 extremely good years with Denver, including one of the most amazing years ever by a QB.  But regardless, the point is that all those teams did what they thought was the smart thing, probably didn't have the blessing of their HOF QB, and the QB in question was not being a whiny primadonna about it.  That said, I don't know how much of this is Rodgers actually being whiny and how much is the media just trying to squeeze juice from the lemon.

He is 37.  Two years ago everyone was asking what was wrong with him, and fair enough, he proved those people wrong.  But finding his replacement is the smart thing to do, because history shows us he is nearing the end of his rope.  Having himself been the guy (fair or no) to help move another aging legend out of town, you'd think he would be able to see both sides of it.

Edit:  if the main argument here is simply that they should have told him?  Em, I guess so?  Would that have really changed anything?  Rodger is great, and has the ego to go with it.

[Trippy]

The point is is when you have a franchise QB at the helm (doesn’t even have to be HOF-bound) who is still playing well and isn’t in some sort of weird contract state you don’t draft a QB first round. The only exception I’ve been able to find through semi-recent memory is in fact Aaron Rodgers himself while Brett Favre was still playing. But the Packers weren’t doing all that well at the time and yet still Rogers just sat on the bench while the Packers patiently waited for Favre to retire.

Edit: here's the list of QBs drafted first round by team so you can more easily see what I mean:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/28/first-round-quarterbacks-by-team-in-the-super-bowl-era/

[WayAbvPar]

If Rodgers wants to run the team, he is free to apply for the GM job and forgo the tens of millions of dollars he gets for playing QB. Ditto for RW3 and the rest.  A large part of the problem is the NFL's insistence that it be the focal of the sports world 24/7 365. Manufactured drama is so goddamned tiresome.

[Cyrrex]

If Rodgers wants to run the team, he is free to apply for the GM job and forgo the tens of millions of dollars he gets for playing QB. Ditto for RW3 and the rest.  A large part of the problem is the NFL's insistence that it be the focal of the sports world 24/7 365. Manufactured drama is so goddamned tiresome.

Yeah, this.  Add to it the outsized influence of the QB in this insane era of offensive bias.  Did anyone ask WR1 about the first round WR the team drafted?  Of course not.

And Trippy, Rodgers is 37.  It is definitely the time to draft a first round QB.  As to whether or not the team owes the QB an explanation, I will just agree to disagree.  Based on my above comment.

[Sky]

Did anyone ask WR1 about the first round WR the team drafted?  Of course not.

When I was in music school, we had an improv class. Local singers would come in, drop a chart on everyone's stands, and we'd have to back them up. I was mostly playing bass at the time, we had 3 or 4 bassists in the class. But only one bassist could play at a time. The one who could play the most styles the most proficiently would get more reps and become the main bassist in the group for the semester.

There were about 20 guitarists in the class. It was common for 5+ guitarists to try to squeeze in to each song. I honestly don't know how they sorted the stuff out over on their side.

Point is, you can't compare a solo position with a group position. A great QB will replace you, a great WR will challenge you (but you can still play well and stay on the field, even if you get bumped to WR2 or slot or w/e). I mean, it's not like Aaron can go return punts if he declines. His only other option is riding the pine or getting out of town.

Also, stop pretending the QB position isn't the single most important player position in football. It's a silly contrarian trope.

[Cyrrex]

Of course it is the most important position, and these days it is way over the top.  So sure, let them in the front office as well, I am sure that will turn out great for everyone.  I am a fan of RW3 the football player, but FUCK HIM for thinking he should start making management decisions.

RODGERS IS 37.  IT IS WELL PAST TIME TO FIND AND GROOM HIS REPLACEMENT.  Your analogy makes no sense.  If Aaron is no longer the best QB on the team, he should not be the QB1, plain and simple.  His best defense against that is to go out and play great like he usually does and let Jordan Love rot on the bench.  Other great players across many sports have done exactly that. 

[01101010]

Only caveat to all the Rogers/Love drama is when you draft a QB that high (and traded up to get him for whatever reason), that impacts your cap for at least 4 years without actually improving your team on the field. Hell, Love was 3rd string last year....

You pick a WR or TE there and it can (not always) have immediate impacts the following season - and with GB competing every year, why? Anything would have been better in that first round on offense than a QB. Sure, Rogers is 37 (36 at the time) and no one knew he was going to be voted league MVP this season. But he has not been dog shit enough to trade up for his replacement. So if Rogers continues for the duration of his contract, and continues ballin' out, what the hell do you do with Love? He sits, getting no meaningful reps with the first team and his rookie contract expiring. They pick up his 5th year option and hope Rogers falls off the cliff enough to replace him? Then what if Love is terribad in those replacement games and they don't franchise tag him. That then becomes a wasted first round draft pick that could have had way more value if they would have grabbed Higgins or any WR for that matter. Same thing happened with Favre not so long ago. Maybe that was a factor, but when your front office does the same stupid shit? Well, that might mean the front office is the problem and not the QBs.

Rogers is wasting away in GB while the front office puts little help around him. They should make some effort and take OBJ off the Browns' hands because right now you got Adams. Lazard is too streaky to be reliable and Valdes-Scantling is not much better.

And I say this as someone who is not at all a Rogers fan... but he is getting the shaft and chirping about it. But god forbid a football player chirps about his situation...

[Draegan]

Wasting away? Lol fucking bullshit. They win a lot of games there.

[01101010]

Wasting away? Lol fucking bullshit. They win a lot of games there.

And yet only have 1 superbowl in the Rogers era - and I don't think it is because of Rogers.

[HaemishM]

Nobody is saying that the Packers can't draft Love, or that Rodgers needs to run the fucking team. That's reductionist and stupid. But he is a valuable employee, perhaps one of the most valuable. He's marketable (he's definitely selling jerseys and enhancing the brand from a merchandising standpoint with his endorsements). He's not getting into trouble with the law. Even when the team was bad, it was as much because they couldn't protect him or get open for him because their coach was a barely sentient pile of mashed potatoes. The very least you do in that situation is talk to him like a goddamn professional and say "Look, you're getting up in years and the team needs to protect itself in case your form falls off the cliff. We're going to draft a guy who may be a replacement if he works out. If he can't beat you in an honest competition, we move on."

Rodgers knows how this works, after all, he WAS that guy. From all accounts I've heard, he hasn't treated Love like Favre treated him. He's actually been helpful to the kid. Just from a corporate communications standpoint, letting Rodgers have a heads up means that when the questions inevitably come to him, he's prepared for it rather than saying "I don't know, man, I just work here, they don't tell me anything." The last thing you want to do is have your star player have to answer uncomfortable questions about his fucking job. It's a distraction that is completely avoidable and completely unnecessary, and could have literally been handled with a goddamn phone call. It's simply more galling because of how little the team has valued the WR position (or for that matter the TE position). Rodgers has been throwing to street free agents and projects for a decade. Even Adams during his first 2 1/2 seasons was a brickhanded replacement level player with some flashes. I'm not saying these guys can't develop into something, especially being thrown to by a HOF QB, but it hasn't happened so far. They could probably have picked Love in the second round last season and gotten Justin Jefferson in the first round - that guy is really good. It might not have gotten them to the Super Bowl, but it certainly would have been more helpful than Jordan Love, who was never active for one game the entire year.

God forbid Jordan Love is handed the starting role this year and sucks. As a black QB in one of the whitest cities in the country, he's going to hear no end of horrible shit if he isn't the second coming of Rodgers and Favre.

[WayAbvPar]

The Packers have completely fucked this whole situation up. They were probably right to draft Love, especially given how Rodgers behaved in the playoffs the previous season (he basically decided they weren't going to win in the 2nd quarter and quit trying). They were probably right to let Love sit this past season and learn behind Rodgers. Where they went off the rails is having no plan to get rid of Rodgers after this season. The guy just won the MVP. They could have gotten SO MUCH back for him, but instead sat on their hands and hoped it would all go away, and have now squandered any chance of a decent return for him. If they had a plan about how to placate him once they decided they didn't want to move on, it absolutely didn't work.

I will not be surprised if Rodgers tells them to go fuck themselves and sits out a year. I would also not be surprised if the market for him at nearly 40 and after a year away is a lot softer than he thinks it should be if he does that. Both sides have massively fucked this up, and seem intent on taking each other down. They fucking deserve each other.

[01101010]

The Packers have completely fucked this whole situation up. They were probably right to draft Love, especially given how Rodgers behaved in the playoffs the previous season (he basically decided they weren't going to win in the 2nd quarter and quit trying). They were probably right to let Love sit this past season and learn behind Rodgers. Where they went off the rails is having no plan to get rid of Rodgers after this season. The guy just won the MVP. They could have gotten SO MUCH back for him, but instead sat on their hands and hoped it would all go away, and have now squandered any chance of a decent return for him. If they had a plan about how to placate him once they decided they didn't want to move on, it absolutely didn't work.

I will not be surprised if Rodgers tells them to go fuck themselves and sits out a year. I would also not be surprised if the market for him at nearly 40 and after a year away is a lot softer than he thinks it should be if he does that. Both sides have massively fucked this up, and seem intent on taking each other down. They fucking deserve each other.

Well said. 

[Sky]

I would also not be surprised if the market for him at nearly 40 and after a year away is a lot softer than he thinks it should be if he does that.

I would phrase this in the form of a question.

 

[Trippy]

Given the contracts journeyman QBs have gotten after one good season recently I think you underestimate how much teams are willing to pay for anybody who looks like he can throw a ball without tripping over his own feet.

Edit: singular

[HaemishM]

Rodgers could sit a year and he'd still have teams knocking down his door. Remember, Manning could have played almost anywhere when he came back, and that was after a year where they weren't sure his head wasn't going to literally fall off his neck. Brady had the same sort of market, and he's 5 years older. It's not like we're talking about Trubisky or Blaine Gabbert. You put Rodgers on any team in the NFL and he instantly makes them contenders or keeps them contenders if they already have a top level QB. The Packers really have royally fucked this up, either by not having a plan or having a plan and just not letting their HOF QB in on the plan. Again, I think if you talk to him like he's important (since he is) and let him know "This is business and here's what we want to do," then at the very least you can work it out behind closed doors. That way, you keep his trade value high and you avoid making everybody look bad. You can say it's Rodgers hurt ego, but come on - if you are him, how could you not have the ego?

QB's who have won the Super Bowl and made the playoffs in almost every season they've played are platinum. Russell Wilson, Brady, Matt Ryan, Mahomes, Rodgers - any team that doesn't have a QB of that caliber would give up multiple first rounders to get that guy if they could work it out.

[Draegan]

Wasting away? Lol fucking bullshit. They win a lot of games there.

And yet only have 1 superbowl in the Rogers era - and I don't think it is because of Rogers.

Russel Wilson
Drew Brees
Brett Favre
Steve Young

Dan Marino
Warren Moon
Kurt Warner

Just some QBs who never won or just won one SB.

[Cyrrex]

Green Bay has been one of the most successful teams in the past couple of decades in winning their division, making the post season, etc.  Rodgers has had more chances than most.  I am not saying it is his failure that they 'only' have one SB during his time, but it is not accurate at all to say that the organization has not put together good teams.  They been doing it since way before he came around.

This is all a lot of hearsay anyway.  I don't think anyone knows for sure what is in his head.

[01101010]

Green Bay has been one of the most successful teams in the past couple of decades in winning their division, making the post season, etc.  Rodgers has had more chances than most.  I am not saying it is his failure that they 'only' have one SB during his time, but it is not accurate at all to say that the organization has not put together good teams.  They been doing it since way before he came around.

This is all a lot of hearsay anyway.  I don't think anyone knows for sure what is in his head.

Part of me says yes, but the other part of me says 'look at the trash in that division, of course GB was going to be a playoff perennial.' Just swap Mayfield for Rogers straight up and watch the world burn down. 

[Cyrrex]

Green Bay has been one of the most successful teams in the past couple of decades in winning their division, making the post season, etc.  Rodgers has had more chances than most.  I am not saying it is his failure that they 'only' have one SB during his time, but it is not accurate at all to say that the organization has not put together good teams.  They been doing it since way before he came around.

This is all a lot of hearsay anyway.  I don't think anyone knows for sure what is in his head.

Part of me says yes, but the other part of me says 'look at the trash in that division, of course GB was going to be a playoff perennial.' Just swap Mayfield for Rogers straight up and watch the world burn down. 

You can kinda of say that about any division at any given time.  And that is kinda the point, the QB itself is the often the difference, and that does not support the myth that a team fails to surround the QB with talent.  Literally all teams fail to surround the QB with the perfect talent, and much of the reason for that is that the QB sucks out fucking half of the cap money.  Want more talent?  Give up half your 20 million a year.

[HaemishM]

I've been a Packers fan since the bad old days of the mid-80s. Packers fans have been spoiled for a good 20+ years (basically since Favre's second year) by having a Hall of Fame QB followed by a futuer Hall of Fame QB. However, both Favre and Rodgers only have 1 Super Bowl each for a reason. That reason is the Packers have been reluctant to spend any money on free agents and have instead relied on replacing young players once they are eligible for free agency with other less expensive (though not necessarily better players). The two Super Bowls that they've won were on years when they actually spent money on decent free agents - Reggie White back in the late '90's and Charles Woodson back when Rodgers won his Super Bowl. No, the free agent veterans weren't the sole reason those teams won, but they did cover up a lot of the team's weaknesses, as did having HOF QB's. And they haven't drafted a first or second round wide receiver since Randall Cobb. I'm still amazed they resigned Aaron Jones.

[WayAbvPar]

QB's who have won the Super Bowl and made the playoffs in almost every season they've played are platinum. Russell Wilson, Brady, Matt Ryan, Mahomes, Rodgers - any team that doesn't have a QB of that caliber would give up multiple first rounders to get that guy if they could work it out.

Something is wrong with your keyboard...this is has to be a typo, right? 

[HaemishM]

No, believe it or not, I put Matt Ryan in at least the top half of QB's in the league. When his team isn't coached by a mutton head like Dan Quinn, and has a defense that can stop at least a team of 4th graders, he does quite well. I'd actually put him about equal to a Matt Stafford - a QB who is better than the team he's been provided.

Also, Green Bay signed Blake Goddamn Bortles, so I guess we're ready for the post-Rodgers era to begin. 

[WayAbvPar]

Bortles is like the poster boy for the 'Yep, Kaepernick got fucked' camp.

Ryan was decent early in his career, but he is mostly a disaster now. So many throws off his back foot that his arm strength can't cover.

[HaemishM]

Matt Ryan has not been helped by 1) an offensive line that is really offensively bad, 2) Julio Jones' leg parts having all the tensile strength of wet chicken and 3) a head coach mistakenly regarded as a defensive genius for running Seattle's Super Bowl teams only forgetting that he was blessed with an absolute world-class, all-time defensive backfield for his entire time there.

[WayAbvPar]

Funny how adding 3 or 4 Hall of Famers in the prime makes a coach look good!

[HaemishM]

I mean, Mike McCarthy has a career after all. 

[Sir T]

TEBOW! 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31476623/source-tim-tebow-signs-one-year-contract-jacksonville-jaguars-tight-end

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Tim Tebow's attempted NFL comeback has officially begun.

The 2007 Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback signed his contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars on Thursday as a tight end, reuniting him with Urban Meyer, his former head coach at Florida.

Tebow signed a one-year deal and was on the field Thursday for the team's offseason program as he sets out to compete for a roster spot. Tebow joined his new team on the field wearing No. 85 -- quarterback Gardner Minshew has No. 15 for now -- and took part in a voluntary, closed workout.

"I want to thank the Jaguars for the opportunity to compete and earn the chance to be part of this team," Tebow said in a statement. "I know it will be a challenge, but it is a challenge I embrace. I am dedicated to taking the direction of our coaching staff and learning from my teammates. I appreciate everyone's support as I embark on this new journey."

Tebow, who will turn 34 in August, hasn't played football since the 2015 NFL preseason and has spent the past six years working as a broadcaster on the SEC Network and working on his professional baseball career. He was adamant about being a quarterback during his previous six-year stretch in the NFL with the Broncos, Jets, Patriots and Eagles, but he apparently has had a change of heart now that Meyer is running the Jaguars.

Tebow asked Meyer for a tryout in February, and he worked out at least twice for the Jaguars.

[WayAbvPar]

That is a pure PR stunt. That area of the country worships Tebow, so they will probably sell a few hundred jerseys before he is quietly cut before the opening game.

[Sky]

3 Tebow jerseys are the top sellers at fanatics right now.

https://www.fanatics.com/nfl/jerseys/o-1338+d-53447856+z-8865-128422821?ab={wt-static_graphic}{dm-FDC}{pt-league}{al-A_Spot}{ct-JERSEYS}

[HaemishM]

/sadf

[Sky]

Fitz is magic. I love this dude. Be more like Fitz.

[Sky]

Welp we got a goldang running game again in NE. Holy crap that rookie blew the doors off the place. Now if we can get the WRs to remember that the ball goes into the hands and stays there, we'll be golden :D

It was especially delicious when Bill decided to take a victory formation knee at the end of the game and Rivera called a time out...so Bill just let the HB do his thing and hey thanks for the completely avoidable 97yd TD run!

Also, I still love Fitz. Dude is just having fun. Also kind of funny that Rivera almost yelled 'WATCH OUT' to Cam when Young almost sacked him.