The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Prime Video)

[slog]

The first season of Amazon Studios’ sprawling The Lord Of the Rings series will cost $465 million to produce.

Excellent.  I think that means we can expert at least a few years of content to be produced.

[Threash]

Better than throwing away money going to space I guess.

[Velorath]

I know it had previously been mentioned that Amazon paid $250 million for the licensing rights alone so I would imagine that's being included here.

[Trippy]

It doesn't. The production cost estimate is derived from the reported New Zealand tax credits they are getting for filming in NZ. That's separate from the cost to acquire the rights.

[Trippy]

Main teaser https://youtu.be/ewgCqJDI_Nk

[Threash]

That looks amazing, you can see where the money went.

[Velorath]

Hopefully it's good, just so ya'll can stop trying to force yourselves in enjoying Wheel of Time.

[Reg]

Whether it's good or bad at least it won't ruin a story I loved in its telling.

[Khaldun]

Does look good. Looks like they're going to try some visualizations of the First Age, however limited. I was looking at wikis to try and refresh my memory about what Sauron was doing at the end of the First Age and what he's up to at the point where he reappears in a fair guise as Annatar. I'm not sure how much of that is in the Silmarillion, how much is in the Appendices, and how much comes from all the stuff Christopher Tolkien has edited--and for that matter, how careful Amazon has to be to stick to the Appendices given the previously expressed hostility of the Tolkien Estate to anything that touches on the Silmarillion.

Basically the story goes:

1) Sauron sort of fades out by the end of the First Age, reasons unstated, but begs for mercy from the Valar at the end, only to run away because he's afraid of the punishment that awaits him.
2) He's not visible for a while--maybe off in the East, maybe just hiding until he thinks no one remembers that he's still at large.
3) He pops up in Mordor and starts building himself up as a power.
4) But then he decides in the heart of the Second Age to take on the fair guise of Annatar and teach the Elves the craft of ringlore.

At least some of that is in the Appendices. The reason I'm thinking about it is the stuff with Galadriel in the teaser--that will be interesting if she's been trying to track Sauron ever since the end of the First Age and has been trying to get everybody to preemptively attack Mordor once he starts building it up, but nobody else thinks it's that big a deal. It is, after all, the absolute height of the power and glory of Elves, Dwarves and Men in the entire history of the Second Age in Middle-Earth (well, the Elves are a bit diminished from their Middle-Earth First Age power but then again they're not hung up on the Silmarils any longer, nor are they dealing with the headaches caused by the Sons of Feanor).

[Teleku]

Yeah, I liked how they at least tried to visualize some first age stuff.  I still dream of somebody doing an adaptation of the Silmarillion series with this sort of budget.  Mostly liked what I saw in the trailer, but pretty annoyed they forced in hobbits because I guess that's entirely what all of Tolkien is about.  -_-

Hard to say from this trailer, but looks like they might try to make the main characters hobbits again and that is just kind of annoying as shit.  Can we concentrate on one of the other (cool) races now?

[Soulflame]

It was the Oath of Feanor that caused the fucked up bullshit.

[HaemishM]

It looked pretty, but feels like it borrows way too heavily from the movies for its aesthetic, and the addition of Hobbits makes me think they are just going to rehash old narratives.

[Phildo]

I still dream of somebody doing an adaptation of the Silmarillion series with this sort of budget.

Want to see if it's possible to frameskip a 4K tv from all the bodies that would require throwing on screen at once?  The scope of the battles in the Silmarillion was absolutely massive.

[Ashamanchill]

It was the Oath of Feanor that caused the fucked up bullshit.

I think technically it was the Doom of Mandos, as it follows Fingolfin and Finarfin's (but not Finarfin himself) kin as well. Until Earendil goes to Valinor and puts on a relief for Middle Earth concert.

1) Sauron sort of fades out by the end of the First Age, reasons unstated, but begs for mercy from the Valar at the end, only to run away because he's afraid of the punishment that awaits him.

Tolkien later stated that Sauron dipped when he saw the host of the Valinor coming for his boss.

At least some of that is in the Appendices. The reason I'm thinking about it is the stuff with Galadriel in the teaser--that will be interesting if she's been trying to track Sauron ever since the end of the First Age and has been trying to get everybody to preemptively attack Mordor once he starts building it up, but nobody else thinks it's that big a deal.

I think that could be really cool. And of course, Mordor need not look like, well what it looks like, yet. Sauron still had the capacity for deception, and since he was Annatar now, we can surmise that he has stopped thinking being a giant bat/wolf/vampire is winning over the general elven populace. They could be like "Galadriel, why are you being such a bitch to Annatar? He already told us he doesn't know where Sauron is, but he totally saw him heading that way. Geez. I am gonna stay for his Ted Talk on How to put your soul into your creations though."

[Soulflame]

The Doom of Mandos was inflicted on the Noldor because of the Kinslaying.  Which they did because the Teleri refused to let the Noldor have their ships.  The force of the Oath of Feanor prompted the Noldor to take the ships.

cue: NEEEERDS

[Ashamanchill]

I mean sure, that is the progenitor event. But the Doom of Mandos gets put upon even those who didn't swear the Oath, or were even at the kinslaying, but tagging along later. It even affects places which otherwise don't come into contact with the Silmaril or the Sons, such as Gondolin.

And yes I am totally splitting hairs. Like debating whether the fist, or the telephone book is what bruised that perp's face.

[Khaldun]

Honestly, if they play it right, they could definitely end up with a really nuanced and layered version of Galadriel--like, she's the Cassandra who is trying to get everyone else to see "hello, every age has its own evils, and ours is Sauron" and even the other First Age survivors are like "naw, the Valar fixed it all, that guy in Mordor is some weak-ass punk, the orcs these days are a bunch of sissies compared to what we had to deal with, let's enjoy life and not create stress with the Dwarves and Numenorean Men". I like that, it's plausible backstory for her (and why she might feel very close to the Istari later on: look! the Valar have sent some Maiar who agree with me! Finally!)

But they really need to play Annatar as an actually good guy, or seeming so--he can't be evilling it up and twirling his mustache every ten seconds.

[Ashamanchill]

That would be awesome, but I fear a little too nuanced for what I suspect we will get. Like, I think it would be successful if it took til, say the end of the second season for Annatar to be "revealed" as Sauron (obviously for those who havent read the source material).  I doubt we will get that though. I would be happy if we get something like Ed Wesser as Mr Morden from Babylon 5. We know he's evil, and a used car salesmen on a civilizational level, but there's enough plausibility that people want to believe what he is selling.

Man, I really like the scene where Galadriel is talking to (I presume) Celeborn, and shes's like: man I've seen some shit. Nah, dawg, not like you have, I'm telling you, I've seen some shit." Especially as she would be, at that time, one of only 3 elves in Middle Earth that had actually seen Melkor before he was Morgoth. (And yes I know they reference the Kinslaying right after that).

[Soulflame]

It looked pretty, but feels like it borrows way too heavily from the movies for its aesthetic, and the addition of Hobbits makes me think they are just going to rehash old narratives.

Those hobbits are probably related to Smeagol in some way.

[Ashamanchill]

Beagol has entered the chat.

[Khaldun]

They kind of look like they're going for Rasta Hobbits.

[Ashamanchill]

New trailer is out. I don't think we are getting our political back and forth Khal. Looks okayish mind you, but not seeing anything but stark good and evil here.

[Khaldun]

I dunno, the Appendices are full of "people didn't want to listen to warnings about Annatar", so that at least implies some initial grey area where folks like this new sexy ring-making dude not because he exudes evil but just because HAI, it's the Second Age and darling it's been a while since we had any cool new shit to do.

[Ashamanchill]

I meant more the tone the trailers were exuding. Less, LotR with a splash of GoT, and more, giant sea creature chase scene, oh and we has Balrogs!

[Hawkbit]

I'm out. It's the one story I just didn't anyone to mess with, but here we are.

I have unclenched my cheeks a bit from this post. I suppose I'll give this a shot and probably end up enjoying it. Looks pretty.

[Ashamanchill]

It's safe from my ire because they are at least exploring an "open" area of Tolkien's world. An area not already covered in narrative but just hinted to. That gives them more latitude to work with, yet still not a blank cheque obviously.

[Phildo]

Wonder if we'll get sexy Ungoliant.

[Threash]

Just the fact that they are going for 20 episode seasons tells me they are probably not gonna be all that high quality.

Speaking of bad takes you've reconsidered.

[eldaec]

That trailer makes it look like visual effects techniques haven't moved on at all since the films.

I can understand wanting to take the films look and feel. But blimey.

Show might or might not be good. But that trailer is not pretty.

[Threash]

That's ridiculous, that trailer was visually stunning.

[Khaldun]

Pretty is exactly what it is. If that trailer isn't pretty, I don't know what that word means.

I get it that you might wonder whether there's some other way to represent Tolkien visually, but the films managed to capture grandeur and scale pretty fucking well, so no surprise that they're following that.

The films that really needed another visual style (and one less film) were the Hobbit films. And if anyone ever made The Silmarillion, that might need a completely different visual style as well--the world of the First Age needs to be so monumental and intense and full of power and energy that it might almost need a really stylized form of animation. But for the Second Age? Following Jackson's lead is the way to go, and that trailer looks to have nailed that.

[Trippy]

That trailer makes it look like visual effects techniques haven't moved on at all since the films.

One can argue that Weta Workshop set the benchmark for practical effects back then and since the LotR movies favored practical effects and on-location shoots over CG and green screens wherever possible they (mostly) still look "state-of-the-art" today. And as others have said the teaser implies this series is copying the "look and style" of the movies which is why it looks like the teaser shots copied many of the same techniques, though I would argue the CG in the teaser hints at much better CG compared to the LotR trilogy, which is to be expected. And I'm assuming some of what were practical effects before are now CG.

Edit: for

[slog]

I can't imagine how anything could ever compare to the stuff that Peter Jackson did, but this looks like it's going to be worth watching and I can't wait.

[Trippy]

San Diego Comic-Con trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYnQDsaxHZU

[Soulflame]

The trailer is fine, but man the comments are gold.