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Author Topic: Coronavirus / COVID-19  (Read 7729 times)
Salamok
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Reply #350 on: March 26, 2020, 11:09:43 AM

Turns out chloroquine does fuck all.

Researcher who claimed it helped has about as reliable a record as the autism=vaccines guy. A correctly conducted Chinese study that showed chloroquine did nothing was ignored because this flawed western one said it worked.

To be fair though the Chinese study only involved like 30 people or something.  I pretty much felt it was going to be bullshit from the get go anyway,Trump endorsing something is pretty much means there are only wishes instead of facts supporting it. 
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #351 on: March 26, 2020, 11:46:25 AM

So, yesterday  my fiancee started to feel a bit of a a sore throat, dry cough (not continous) and a bit of a cold (but not really a runny nose). No flu.

Today it's been 14 days since we returned from our trip abroad (like I said, we went through 3 airports, at that time without any security measures, meaning we distanced from others ourselves 'til on the plane, of course).

Honestly, it would be a bit surprising if we both caught it (we live together, currently I have no symptoms whatsoever): we went out only once to buy groceries, exactly 10 days ago. Both periods (14 days and 10) are theorically still within the possible incubation/beginning of symptoms window, but quite beyond the average (5 days). We walk out the dog three times a day (no people outside since we're in lockdown, so you can keep your distance whenever you go out) and we're careful not to touch our face or anything 'til we're back inside and with our hands washed. Yeah, of course there are cases of getting it beyond the usual 14 days window.

A bit skeptic also for another reason: last week weather was splendid, sunny at about 22-23°C (73 F); last three days: windy, cloudy, cold (about 4-5 °C, so a big drop) and TODAY IT FUCKING SNOWED for 3-4 hours in the morning Mob

Anyway, this drastic weather change surely hasn't helped. Will keep you posted  this guy looks legit

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #352 on: March 26, 2020, 01:39:39 PM

Here in Italy, Lombardy unfortunately continues to be the big anomaly: national curve went a bit up again today, +8,3% (yesterday it was 7,4); but looking at the values of all the italian regions, Lombardy added a whopping 1,000 more cases compared to yesterday. If not for that, curve would actually be at a slight new low. Lockdown measures are definitely working in most of the other 19 regions...but really struggling in Lombardy  Ohhhhh, I see. . Damn it.

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Sir T
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Posts: 13088


Reply #353 on: March 26, 2020, 01:53:02 PM

Turns out chloroquine does fuck all.

Researcher who claimed it helped has about as reliable a record as the autism=vaccines guy. A correctly conducted Chinese study that showed chloroquine did nothing was ignored because this flawed western one said it worked.

But hey who cares about those lupus, malaria, and Chloroquine poisoning patients, huh? And we can be sure that people will be saying this is the Governments covering up the cure till the end of time. Gotta stockpile just in case!

Also, Doctor said I'm fine for now, just have a cold or something.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
slog
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Reply #354 on: March 26, 2020, 02:41:44 PM

My company just announced that everyone gets an extra week of paid time off to deal with Covid-19 if we need it.  That's pretty nice of them considering everything that's going on.

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

.
schild
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Reply #355 on: March 26, 2020, 02:51:57 PM

wow one week

how benevolent
slog
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Reply #356 on: March 26, 2020, 03:00:47 PM

wow one week

how benevolent


Well, we already get 5 weeks paid time off, and no one is getting laid off. 

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

.
Tale
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sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ


Reply #357 on: March 26, 2020, 05:19:32 PM

Turns out chloroquine does fuck all.

Researcher who claimed it helped has about as reliable a record as the autism=vaccines guy. A correctly conducted Chinese study that showed chloroquine did nothing was ignored because this flawed western one said it worked.

To be fair though the Chinese study only involved like 30 people or something.  I pretty much felt it was going to be bullshit from the get go anyway,Trump endorsing something is pretty much means there are only wishes instead of facts supporting it.  

It seems unlikely what what works on Plasmodium parasites spread by mosquitoes would work on the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The whole chloroquine possibility is based on MERS trials in 2012 where they threw just about every drug against MERS, and chhloroquine made the "might stop the virus from infecting cells" shortlist, but ultimately didn't show enough activity to be considered further.
Khaldun
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Reply #358 on: March 26, 2020, 05:32:53 PM

Remember that malaria is an insanely complicated life cycle and it's super-adapted to people. It's impressive that something so untargeted ever hurt it in the first place, but it has to do with chlorquine's general toxicity. You know what the main treatment (still!) for later-stage trypanosomomasis (sleeping sickness) is? Flooding the body with arsenic. Sometimes kills late-stage patients but if you don't they're dead anyway. It's also in a way what we're doing with chemotherapy and radiotherapy. So drugs that are toxins work sometimes simply because they disrupt the metabolic functioning of a pathogen as well as its host enough to give the host time to recover from the pathogen. But they're not targeted and they often do more harm than good. Some of the later chloroquin derivatives used to fight malaria after it developed resistance had really bad side effects beyond garden-variety toxicity.
lamaros
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Reply #359 on: March 26, 2020, 06:03:33 PM

I definitely feel like there are countries that are hiding the scale of their own outbreaks, and that's bad, because it's obscuring knowledge about the disease that the world desperately needs to have.

We all owe a lot to Italy in a way. Without what's happened there, and them making it so public and open (hello Iran, China) a lot of the rest of our countries would have been even slower to take this seriously than they are.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Chimpy
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Reply #360 on: March 26, 2020, 07:33:43 PM

Italy also scared the pants off a lot of doctors/nurses etc in the West who were initially thinking this might be blown out of proportion. Doctors and nurses are well aware just how advanced Italy's healthcare system is and the fact that it has been crushed under the weight of this thing has really woken them up.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Lucas
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Posts: 3278

Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #361 on: March 27, 2020, 04:51:39 AM

More weird from India (from CNN live updates. I mean, you do whatever you think it's necessary, but that's quite weird nonetheless :D ) :



Change Rajastthan with Arstotzka and you're basically in full "Papers, Please" mode :D

Or, if you prefer, "for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Rajasthan"  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?



" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #362 on: March 27, 2020, 06:22:54 AM

Breaking news:


" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
eldaec
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Reply #363 on: March 27, 2020, 09:11:12 AM

You just know he'll be fine.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Cyrrex
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Reply #364 on: March 27, 2020, 09:18:26 AM

Without any way to actually back up this claim, I would go out on a limb and suggest this virus skews heavily towards infecting total cunts.  If for no other reason than they are more likely to ignore the rules and recommendations.  We'll see a few giant assholes die from this before all's said and done.

Which in no way is me saying that everyone that catches it falls into this category.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Chimpy
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Reply #365 on: March 27, 2020, 09:51:08 AM

Without any way to actually back up this claim, I would go out on a limb and suggest this virus skews heavily towards infecting total cunts.  If for no other reason than they are more likely to ignore the rules and recommendations.  We'll see a few giant assholes die from this before all's said and done.

Which in no way is me saying that everyone that catches it falls into this category.

So far, the number of celebrities/public figures who have died of this has skewed towards the "better than average" people being more likely to die.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
slog
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Reply #366 on: March 27, 2020, 09:51:48 AM

The statistics on this are not very good at telling the story of what's going on.  For example, It would be really helpful to know how many people who died had a pre-existing condition, were terminally ill, and what the age distribution is. A country with a more developled healthcare system will have more elderly people that are susceptible to Covid-19 than countries with a lower life expectancy. 

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #367 on: March 27, 2020, 10:02:29 AM

The statistics on this are not very good at telling the story of what's going on.  For example, It would be really helpful to know how many people who died had a pre-existing condition, were terminally ill, and what the age distribution is. A country with a more developled healthcare system will have more elderly people that are susceptible to Covid-19 than countries with a lower life expectancy. 
Yeah, you could wish there was an entire medical specialty dedicated to gathering, collating, and publishing that data....

Do some googling, I already did my homework, you can do your own.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
slog
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Reply #368 on: March 27, 2020, 10:09:27 AM

The statistics on this are not very good at telling the story of what's going on.  For example, It would be really helpful to know how many people who died had a pre-existing condition, were terminally ill, and what the age distribution is. A country with a more developled healthcare system will have more elderly people that are susceptible to Covid-19 than countries with a lower life expectancy.  
Yeah, you could wish there was an entire medical specialty dedicated to gathering, collating, and publishing that data....

Do some googling, I already did my homework, you can do your own.

--Dave

I'd love to but we are just slammed with work at the office.  My team and I will be working this weekend.

Edit: It is cool that something is out there!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 10:11:59 AM by slog »

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

.
jgsugden
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Reply #369 on: March 27, 2020, 10:13:39 AM

Yeah, you could wish there was an entire medical specialty dedicated to gathering, collating, and publishing that data....

Do some googling, I already did my homework, you can do your own.

--Dave
I've been able to find some data that tells age based information, and some that tells about preexiting conditions, but nothing that cross references those, as well as factors in other important considerations.  For example how many people my age with my health conditions have been tested, how many of those were posititive, how man of those developed no symptoms/symptoms that did not require hospitalization/symptoms that required hospitalization but were never critical/critical cases that survived/deaths - and for each of those, where they were located.

The question everyone wants to know is: Given my circumstances, and the circumstances surrounding my friends and family, what are people facing if they get the virus?

What can you tell me about gaming and fun in Charlotte, NC?
NowhereMan
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Reply #370 on: March 27, 2020, 11:42:56 AM

It's useful information from the view of individuals who want some level of individualised actuarial information i.e. how much is this going to fuck me versus someone in my age cohort without whatever conditions I have, but from a general perspective it's absolutely not necessary to cross reference deaths with pre-existing conditions, etc. because we're comparing mortality rates with known diseases like influenza and that shows pretty clearly that it's killing a fuckload more people. Yes we might not know what the survival rates of a super healthy 70 year old are versus a 40 year old with 1 lung, type II diabetes and gonorrhoea but we can definitely see that both of them are more likely to be killed by this than the flu and the 70 year old is a lot more likely to die.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #371 on: March 27, 2020, 12:03:33 PM

It takes time (and a lot of cases) to get enough numbers crunched to get mortality for all the permutations of age, gender, and comorbidities.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Khaldun
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Reply #372 on: March 27, 2020, 12:34:59 PM

I think one thing you can see in the data is that if you're over 20, you're not invulnerable--there is a small but notable group of people 25-49 who get really severe cases of it who have no pre-existing conditions or vulnerabilities.
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #373 on: March 27, 2020, 01:45:08 PM

Just to reinforce the idea on how a local  health system can fail under such an extreme stress, today has been the worst day in Italy when it comes to daily deaths: 919

Of those, 541 in the Lombardy region alone (which has a total pop. of 10 million out of 60 mil.)

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Gimfain
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Reply #374 on: March 27, 2020, 02:02:19 PM

Stockholm (capital) is having an escalation of covid-19 cases in iva and as a result more deaths. With people getting their pay checks on wednesday you had restaurants and pubs filled to the brim with people in the wealthier parts. With easter about to happen those same people would go to the swedish ski resorts and you would get the same crisis as the bergamo/lombardy region in italy.

Its due to things like that why Sweden just made it illegal for public gatherings of more than 50 people. My work place is doomed but honestly given that the owner is the same kind of person that don't give a shit about the human cost to get profits its probably for the best. The shithead pushed 700 people into the night club when the limit was 500 two weeks ago.

When you ask for a miracle, you have to be prepared to believe in it or you'll miss it when it comes
Cyrrex
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Reply #375 on: March 27, 2020, 02:18:18 PM

Jesus Fucking Christ, Sweden is waaaaaaaaaaaay behind.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Sir T
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Reply #376 on: March 27, 2020, 04:52:03 PM

They are literally just announcing a full scale lockdown here in Ireland. No-one to go more than 2km from their home. Stay inside.

Time to wear pyjamas all day

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #377 on: March 27, 2020, 05:28:05 PM

Stockholm (capital) is having an escalation of covid-19 cases in iva and as a result more deaths. With people getting their pay checks on wednesday you had restaurants and pubs filled to the brim with people in the wealthier parts. With easter about to happen those same people would go to the swedish ski resorts and you would get the same crisis as the bergamo/lombardy region in italy.

Its due to things like that why Sweden just made it illegal for public gatherings of more than 50 people. My work place is doomed but honestly given that the owner is the same kind of person that don't give a shit about the human cost to get profits its probably for the best. The shithead pushed 700 people into the night club when the limit was 500 two weeks ago.

I mean, that "hands off" could (could) make sense in the Norrbotten province ( I was there for a week at the beginning of March, nearby Jokkmokk), given how low the population density is; but Stockholm is just like any average city in the western world right now.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 05:29:56 PM by Lucas »

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #378 on: March 27, 2020, 05:46:27 PM

Sweden and the Netherlands are pretty fucked because they both went with the. “We don’t really need a lockdown” strategy even after the experience we had with Italy and Spain
Gimfain
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Reply #379 on: March 27, 2020, 10:13:40 PM

Everyone is pretty fucked regardless. What you need are longterm strategies that you can maintain during a year because this one isn't going away easily and if its gone in spring it will be back in fall. Denmark closed their borders but you also have swedes that work in denmark that can move freely over the border. If its shut down completely you have vital parts that don't work because necessary people can't be in the country.The new situation will be when people move out of the large cities and go to their summer houses which will spread it to other regions of the country. The next problem is during fall when everyone is back to work, and everything spreads again.

There are huge cultural differences between swedes and italians when it comes to social distancing. Had lunch with an italian the other day and she immediately hugged me, italians spends far more time with their family elders so if young people have it they will transmit it to the old. Native swedes are nothing like italians so its not going to spread like wildfire among the elderly up here.


When you ask for a miracle, you have to be prepared to believe in it or you'll miss it when it comes
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #380 on: March 28, 2020, 04:58:48 AM

Regardless of any stereotypical “cultural norms” the rate of infections is currently tracking really badly for both Sweden and The Netherlands

They’re both on a worse trajectory than for example Austria even though Sweden has a population density that is about 1/4th that of Austria. Also the Netherlands should have put a shelter in place order long ago  given that they have a higher population density than India.
eldaec
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Reply #381 on: March 28, 2020, 06:09:33 AM

No one outside Asia looks to be on a materially different curve to me.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
schild
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Reply #382 on: March 28, 2020, 07:39:46 AM

I'd really like every country, including South Korea, to stop talking about a rate of infection. This thing has 2-14 days of being asymptomatic. No country is "getting ahead" of it until there's an instant goddamn test and they systemically go through every single person one by one and those people STAY in their houses until every person is healthy again.

This is a thing we live with now and absolutely every country on the planet is *fucked.*
Tale
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sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ


Reply #383 on: March 28, 2020, 08:52:25 AM

FYI this popular tally is incorrectly showing a high number of deaths in Australia. The number of new cases today in each Australian state has somehow been entered as the number of deaths (e.g. New South Wales, Australia, is showing as 212 deaths when it actually has 7 deaths total, but 212 new COVID-19 cases today. There are only 14 deaths total in Australia so far.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
MrHat
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Out of the frying pan, into the fire.


Reply #384 on: March 28, 2020, 12:12:51 PM


 No country is "getting ahead" of it until there's an instant goddamn test and they systemically go through every single person one by one and those people STAY in their houses until every person is healthy again.


https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1243696001958981632?s=20

Quote
Scott Gottlieb, MD
@ScottGottliebMD
·
16h
This is GAME CHANGER. Abbott to market, starting next week, a fast point-of-care #coronavirus test, delivering positive results in 5min and negative results in 13min. Will deliver 50K tests/day to start. Kudos to Abbott and FDA’s Jeff Shuren and team at CDRH who are in the fight.
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