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Author Topic: Robert Jordan's "The Wheel of Time" Visible Spoilers Thread  (Read 4768 times)
SurfD
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Reply #35 on: June 21, 2019, 12:37:45 AM

You can cut out 2/3 of the material simply by cutting out the descriptive passages.
The problem is that, at least for probably half the books, cutting out the descriptive passages only reduces the page count.  It doesn't actually reduce the amount of shit that is "happening", in some books a LOT of shit happens (most of which is also either tangentially or DIRECTLY relevant to shit that will be important some time down the road.

It's sort of like saying "well, sure, you could shorten lord of the rings by like an entire movie if you removed a bunch of the traveling", except that you can't really do that, cause important shit happens while they are traveling.

Trying to shorten wheel of time by removing various side plots would also require a very talented re-write of almost the entire series.  I mean, it isn't like GoT where lit was pretty simple to completely remove the "Resurrected Caitlyn Stark and her Merry Vengeance Band" sidestory without impacting anything at all.  Doing the same thing with WoT would require removing like, at minimum, 2 or 3 decent sized side plots per book, half of which are probably related to something that happens in a later book.  Jordan was nothing if not fond of Foreshadowing shit like 8 books in advance that way.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 12:45:35 AM by SurfD »

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Draegan
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Reply #36 on: June 21, 2019, 08:04:24 AM

Sanderson did do a good job finishing it up.  Except the rat bastard actually

Apparently that was dictated to him if I remember right.
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Reply #37 on: June 21, 2019, 08:12:41 AM

I think scrubbing this down would probably be easy. The first book can be a single season. If it's successful then you can plot out the rest of the books. If it's mediocre but still decent, you can plot out a trilogy like the books originally did. If it's poor, you can still probably shoot an alternative ending like Stars Wars a New Hope and it just ends mercifully there.
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Reply #38 on: June 21, 2019, 08:50:11 AM

I’ve watched some of these WoT fan videos and apparently they are doing the first two books in the first season.  That would be moving along fast.  Maybe too fast.
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Reply #39 on: June 21, 2019, 09:55:18 AM

I sat down to think about how you could plot this whole thing out realistically.  Not going to put in spoilers, but hey, if you don't want plot points revealed, don't read what comes next:

Season 1:  Straight adaptation of book 1.

Season 2:  Book 3 with parts of book 2 meshed in.  Skip the entire Seanchan thing.  Rand and party runs south through Camelyn, but goal is Stone of Tear.  Borg in any minor journey events from book 3 or 2 you want into this.  Mesh in the most relevent parts of white tower stuff between the two books.  Ends just as book 3 ended.

Season 3:  Books 4 and 5 pushed together.  Rand goes to the waste, passes the test at Rhuidean, Aiel split, Rand bangs hot foreign girl, and ends with battle of Caemlyn.  Other two plot threads to follow are White Tower stuff and the girls playing with Dream Land/Moghedien.

Season 4:  Book 6 with some random other shit culled from the next few worthless books.

Book 6 is where I recall things started to bog down under the weight of a thousand plot threads (though the end of the book was badass and marked the series shark jumping point).  So it is at this point it should be easier to cut massive amounts of shit.  Having said that, this is where it would take more mental effort than I want to give on how to adapt/cut.

So I think the path from seasons 1-4 is pretty direct and easy.  If season 7 was just condensing all 3 of the Sanderson books, that gives you two (probably terrible) seasons to to condense books 7-11, which were by far the most pointless.  7 seasons is within the realm of possibility, so this could realistically be done.

But its going to be shit, so......

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Draegan
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Reply #40 on: June 21, 2019, 10:07:02 AM

Combining Book 1 and 2 is a bad idea. Both books were really really good.

Book 1 is a perfect way of building a world and a setting with an actual definitive ending that sets up the rest of the series. Compressing the journey from Two Rivers -> Shadar Logath -> Camelyn -> The Wastes (did I get all those right?) into a few episodes seems crazy. Not only that, you then toss in The Great Hunt and a lot of the lore of the power etc. Then the Seechan and the fight between Rand and Ba'althazar in the sky ending with his branding?

The prophecy stuff is thick in this story, skipping some key elements seems dumb if people want to dive in to things. Books 4ish through 8-9 can be compressed into just 2-3 seasons at most.
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Reply #41 on: June 21, 2019, 10:09:31 AM

I sat down to think about how you could plot this whole thing out realistically.  Not going to put in spoilers, but hey, if you don't want plot points revealed, don't read what comes next:

Season 1:  Straight adaptation of book 1.

Season 2:  Book 3 with parts of book 2 meshed in.  Skip the entire Seanchan thing.  Rand and party runs south through Camelyn, but goal is Stone of Tear.  Borg in any minor journey events from book 3 or 2 you want into this.  Mesh in the most relevent parts of white tower stuff between the two books.  Ends just as book 3 ended.

Season 3:  Books 4 and 5 pushed together.  Rand goes to the waste, passes the test at Rhuidean, Aiel split, Rand bangs hot foreign girl, and ends with battle of Caemlyn.  Other two plot threads to follow are White Tower stuff and the girls playing with Dream Land/Moghedien.

Season 4:  Book 6 with some random other shit culled from the next few worthless books.

Book 6 is where I recall things started to bog down under the weight of a thousand plot threads (though the end of the book was badass and marked the series shark jumping point).  So it is at this point it should be easier to cut massive amounts of shit.  Having said that, this is where it would take more mental effort than I want to give on how to adapt/cut.

So I think the path from seasons 1-4 is pretty direct and easy.  If season 7 was just condensing all 3 of the Sanderson books, that gives you two (probably terrible) seasons to to condense books 7-11, which were by far the most pointless.  7 seasons is within the realm of possibility, so this could realistically be done.

But its going to be shit, so......


Season 1: Book 1
Season 2: Book 2
Season 3: Book 3
Season 4: Books 4-7/8
Season 5: Books 8/9-11/12
Season 6: Wrap it up.

I've read maybe the first 8 books like 4-5 times in my life. I remember reading Eye of the World when I was in middle school for the first time. Every time a new book came out I re-read the series up until that point with the exception of a few books. All the books blend together now over the decades. I have to look a synopsis of what each book is about. but the about of bullshit in books 6ish? through Sanderson is crazy.

When you stop getting Rand point of view chapters from Jordan it really shit the bed. I just looked at the wiki, I didn't even remember there were fucking 14 of these fucking books. Holy shit. Like the story from book 9 or 10 through 14 is just one book in my brain. There's your last season.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 10:16:01 AM by Draegan »
Rendakor
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Reply #42 on: June 21, 2019, 10:14:35 AM

I'd combine books 2 and 3 because I agree with Teleku about cutting the Seanchan; they are pointless and without them, you don't have a good climactic battle at the end of book 2.

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Reply #43 on: June 21, 2019, 10:18:01 AM

Oh misread his post, it's book 2 and 3 not 1 and 2.

Yeah looking at the wiki, you could probably do that. End of book 2 is the mid-season culmination. You don't really need to edit anything out. Just some good ole GoT fast travel.
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Reply #44 on: June 21, 2019, 10:22:40 AM

The biggest problem I see with WoT as a tv series is that it (even more than Game of Thrones) covers a pretty long period of time. It is very much a story about teenagers growing into people in their late 20s/early 30s where the journey is as much of the story as the destination. Sure you could hire teenaged actors and have them play the parts for a decade as in GoT but you then end up dragging the story out forever when as people said this really needs some condensing to make it palatable past the first book or three.

It might be better to do it more as a series of “flashbacks” narrated by someone like Loial. Though I suppose that would turn it even more into a Lord of the Rings “knockoff” cinematically.

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Reply #45 on: June 21, 2019, 10:38:03 AM

You can easily keep this as 20 somethings and not teenagers. I mean Luke Skywalker was supposed to be some 18 year old hayseed or something and was by the end a "mature" character.

You can have some time dilation in the show with just the change of seasons. I don't see an issue.

The whole saga can play out in like 3-5 years. They would have to just do a good job showing how long the whole thing takes place over.
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Reply #46 on: June 24, 2019, 03:01:27 PM

Ah, in case you don't know, there has been a resource for all things TV series for quite some time, called "The Daily Trolloc" (which I find quite funny as a website name :D):

http://www.thedailytrolloc.com/

Some of the weekly recaps also offer a summary of the currently known team behind the series:

http://www.thedailytrolloc.com/2019/06/rosamund-pike-cast-as-moiraine-sedai.html

Quote
Status: Greenlit "Pre-production"
Network - Amazon Prime Video
Production Studio - Sony Pictures Television, Amazon Studios
Production Company - Radar Pictures
Show Runner/Executive producer - Rafe Judkins
Writers -  Amanda Kate Shuman, Celine Song(Staff Writer), Paul and Michael Clarkson, Dave Hill, Justine Gillmer
Directors: Uta Briesewitz
Casting Director: Kelly Valentine Hendry
Assistant to Rafe: Patrick Strapazon
Executive Producers - Marigo Kehoe, Ted Field, Mike Weber, Darren Lemke, Red Eagle
Consulting Producer - Harriet McDougal
Book Consultant - Sarah Nakamura
Episode Length - 1 hour ~

Episode Titles - 101: Leavetaking, 102: Shadow's Waiting, 103: A Place of Safety, 104: The Dragon Reborn
Not confirmed: Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon
Filming Locations: Prague, Czech Republic(September~)

Other names of interest:
Karen E. Goulekas(Visual Effects Supervisor)
Nick Dudman(Makeup Effects Designer)
John Murphy(Prosthetic Make up Artist)

We don't know how many episodes the first season is going to feature; As you can see by following the original link, episode titles hyperlink to the official source, for example:

https://twitter.com/rafejudkins/status/1103397483433025536




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Rendakor
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Reply #47 on: June 24, 2019, 05:03:06 PM

The Dragon Reborn as Episode 4 seems an odd choice, unless that's when we're getting LTT's death and being introduced to the concept. I really doubt they could get to the Eye of the World in 4 episodes.

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Lucas
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Reply #48 on: June 24, 2019, 05:24:22 PM

The Dragon Reborn as Episode 4 seems an odd choice, unless that's when we're getting LTT's death and being introduced to the concept.

This, probably (maybe minus LTT's death, dunno). Looks like it's going to be a Big Lore Dump episode after some world/character building in the previous three episodes. It also might include the part when


By reading the books, we more or less immediately get who the Dragon Reborn is; in-fiction, at least in EOTW, Moiraine doesn't, Ba'alzamon neither; that's why we could get a different point of view (and narration) : beside the "meta" (readers, spectators getting spoiled online, actor(s) choice etc.), the Emond's Field guys might be treated equal as long as possible by the writers/showrunner.

(by the way, what do we do about spoilers? For example, I'm only at book 6 :P).
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 05:27:32 PM by Lucas »

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Reply #49 on: June 24, 2019, 05:51:32 PM

There really isn’t anything to spoil after book 6.   awesome, for real

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Reply #50 on: June 24, 2019, 09:09:58 PM

The Dragon Reborn as Episode 4 seems an odd choice, unless that's when we're getting LTT's death and being introduced to the concept. I really doubt they could get to the Eye of the World in 4 episodes.

That is the title of chapter 8 in the Great Hunt (Book 2).

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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Reply #51 on: June 24, 2019, 09:17:28 PM

The Dragon Reborn as Episode 4 seems an odd choice, unless that's when we're getting LTT's death and being introduced to the concept. I really doubt they could get to the Eye of the World in 4 episodes.

That is the title of chapter 8 in the Great Hunt (Book 2).
It's also the title of Book 3.

Moiraine figures it out at the end of Book 1; Rand admits it at the end of Book 2. Moiraine giving LTT's backstory and saying "One of you three is him, reincarnated" is the only thing that makes sense, unless they're on a rapidly accelerated pace.

I don't mind using spoiler tags if people are so inclined.

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Reply #52 on: June 24, 2019, 09:27:02 PM

The Dragon Reborn as Episode 4 seems an odd choice, unless that's when we're getting LTT's death and being introduced to the concept. I really doubt they could get to the Eye of the World in 4 episodes.

That is the title of chapter 8 in the Great Hunt (Book 2).
It's also the title of Book 3.

Moiraine figures it out at the end of Book 1; Rand admits it at the end of Book 2. Moiraine giving LTT's backstory and saying "One of you three is him, reincarnated" is the only thing that makes sense, unless they're on a rapidly accelerated pace.

I don't mind using spoiler tags if people are so inclined.

I know that it is the title of Book 3, I reminding people who were all "OMG THEY ARE RUSHING THROUGH THE FIRST BOOKS IN THREE EPISODES!!!11ONE" that the term was used for a chapter long before book 3 came around.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Brolan
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Reply #53 on: June 24, 2019, 09:51:33 PM

You better put spoiler tags on the whole thread.
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Reply #54 on: June 24, 2019, 09:59:52 PM

The Dragon Reborn as Episode 4 seems an odd choice, unless that's when we're getting LTT's death and being introduced to the concept. I really doubt they could get to the Eye of the World in 4 episodes.

That is the title of chapter 8 in the Great Hunt (Book 2).
It's also the title of Book 3.

Moiraine figures it out at the end of Book 1; Rand admits it at the end of Book 2. Moiraine giving LTT's backstory and saying "One of you three is him, reincarnated" is the only thing that makes sense, unless they're on a rapidly accelerated pace.

I don't mind using spoiler tags if people are so inclined.

I know that it is the title of Book 3, I reminding people who were all "OMG THEY ARE RUSHING THROUGH THE FIRST BOOKS IN THREE EPISODES!!!11ONE" that the term was used for a chapter long before book 3 came around.
No one suggested that they were rushing through three books. I implied that they were either going to be done with book in 4 episodes, or more likely going to be showing EOTW's prologue in episode 4.

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Reply #55 on: June 25, 2019, 01:02:11 AM

Rushing the first book in 4 eps would kind of suck. Not much room. For character building. Do you immediately start running from trollocs in episode 1 out of two Rivers?
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Reply #56 on: June 25, 2019, 01:25:22 AM

Hour long episodes.  First episode should easily get to the point of the Trolloc attack.

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Reply #57 on: June 25, 2019, 04:38:39 AM

Hour long episodes.  First episode should easily get to the point of the Trolloc attack.

If we take into account the apparent show preference for Moiraine's point of view, we might actually see .

By the way, lots of people speculate that they will also cast a big/semi-big name for Lan; who would you like to see?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 04:41:03 AM by Lucas »

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Draegan
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Reply #58 on: June 25, 2019, 06:04:30 AM

Do we really need to do spoilers?

Also episodes from a different perspective may be an  interesting way to condense the story but so much happens away from the characters that you'd think have major pov stories to tell.
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Reply #59 on: June 25, 2019, 09:27:30 AM

You should do spoilers because once the show comes out, there will be at least a few folks who never read the books that start reading this thread and some of them may start from the beginning.

e: Unless this thread is marked for spoilers in the title and a new one is created when the show is live, like we did with Game of Thrones with separate threads for Book Readers and Non Book Readers.
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Reply #60 on: July 01, 2019, 10:37:43 AM

Thde idea of spoilers for books that I read while I was still in school is rather hilarious to me.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
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Reply #61 on: July 01, 2019, 01:40:18 PM

That doesn't exactly help with people who haven't read the books T. And there are a lot more of them than us.
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Reply #62 on: July 01, 2019, 01:50:28 PM

If I cared about the plot of the books enough to be upset by spoilers, I'd have read them.

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Reg
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Reply #63 on: July 01, 2019, 01:59:27 PM

The whole discussion is premature anyway. They could always just nuke this thread and start a new one if anything actually comes of it.
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Reply #64 on: July 01, 2019, 02:11:28 PM

Re-reading; about book 3 ("The Dragon Reborn") ending:

It's one of those instances that show that RJ knew how to really give some rhythm to his narration: love how he brought all the characters to Tear and what happens there.

The tidbit about Perrin losing himself at the blacksmith forge was nice; also the description about Elayne and Egwene wounds was more "graphic" than usual for the author standards (and the last chapters dedicated to them were very good all around).

Not really a fan of the "boss battle" formula he went for at least in the initial books. Yeah, I get it but after a couple it almost becomes a parody: "Ah, not killed again! Gotcha!!!"

Ok, now it's time for book 4: finally a short one  why so serious? . I mean, it's VERY good, but the Jenn Aiel part is TOO...DAMN....LONG.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 06:46:26 PM by Lucas »

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Reply #65 on: July 01, 2019, 03:07:11 PM

BTW in case people didn't notice, the title of the thread now includes "visible spoilers," so let chaos reign.  If anyone cares about spoilers they can start their own thread and then pout about nobody wanting to post in it.   awesome, for real

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Reply #66 on: July 01, 2019, 06:42:38 PM

Episode Titles - 101: Leavetaking, 102: Shadow's Waiting, 103: A Place of Safety, 104: The Dragon Reborn
Not confirmed: Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon
It's been ages since I've read the books, but couldn't that be:

1. The attack on Emond's Field and their flight.
2. Running into that crap that had them split the party. The waygate place?
3. Arriving at...whatever that big city was, everyone safe and all but scattered.
4. Rand seeing the False Dragon what-his-face, getting the whole infodump, everyone being reunited.
5. Then there's...waygate to the Blight? Eye of the World.
6. Recovery and meeting the Big Chief Magic Chick (which is technically the beginning of book two). Ends with Rand denying he's the Dragon, pan out over unknown horizons, etc.
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Reply #67 on: July 01, 2019, 06:49:40 PM

Episode Titles - 101: Leavetaking, 102: Shadow's Waiting, 103: A Place of Safety, 104: The Dragon Reborn
Not confirmed: Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon
It's been ages since I've read the books, but couldn't that be:

1. The attack on Emond's Field and their flight.
2. Running into that crap that had them split the party. The waygate place?
3. Arriving at...whatever that big city was, everyone safe and all but scattered.
4. Rand seeing the False Dragon what-his-face, getting the whole infodump, everyone being reunited.
5. Then there's...waygate to the Blight? Eye of the World.
6. Recovery and meeting the Big Chief Magic Chick (which is technically the beginning of book two). Ends with Rand denying he's the Dragon, pan out over unknown horizons, etc

Wait, those are just official and/or leaked episode titles, don't consider the number. We'll probably get an 8-10 hrs long season (more or less the standard, nowadays).

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Reply #68 on: July 01, 2019, 07:41:12 PM

I assumed we were getting a ~10 episode season as well. 6 episodes per season makes it hard to cover more than one book per season, even with the later books that include a lot of skippable bullshit.

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Reply #69 on: July 02, 2019, 08:00:04 PM

That doesn't exactly help with people who haven't read the books T. And there are a lot more of them than us.

Fair point, I suppose.

I'll be honest though, I only read one of the books from start to finish, the third one, and I found that pretty bloated with certain scenes that were really good, but a lot of stuff I really didnt care about. (At the time I was going through a phase of reading the last book in a series and then reading the previous books) So I decided I would wait till the whole thing was finished, as I found the final battle with the Guy that was supposed to be the Dark One but wasnt to be a bit of an insulting bait and switch. Needless to say, I never actually read any more of the books.

I think a TV series could do what Jordan didnt - keep the focus on the original characters. That alone would care out a ton of utter BS, that Jordan used to avoid finishing his cash cow. From what I've been told, the later books added so many extra characters that it reduced the original bunch to effective side characters. Doing that in a TV show would turn the thing into Lost.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
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