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Falconeer
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on: March 19, 2019, 12:54:31 PM

Being announced right now.

Apparently it's all about cloud computing, streaming your stuff on all your devices (don't you guys have a phone?), and saving states and sharing them with other people who can pick up your saved games with a single click on a link you share on Youtube or anywhere else. Honestly, I am not even understanding or caring too much about this, but it's news!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7hc4R8JAJY

Edit by Trippy: fixed title

Edit by Trippy: fixed title, again
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 08:33:05 PM by schild »

HaemishM
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Reply #1 on: March 19, 2019, 01:39:18 PM

No.

Just... no.

Trippy
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Reply #2 on: March 19, 2019, 01:45:22 PM

Has potential for certain types of games.
01101010
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Reply #3 on: March 19, 2019, 01:53:11 PM

Ah the Google Glass of consoles.

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Trippy
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Reply #4 on: March 19, 2019, 01:59:28 PM

Not a console but yes there's a high probability that this will die an ignominious death after a few years.
Soulflame
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Reply #5 on: March 19, 2019, 02:34:39 PM

I haven't checked to see if this is accurate, at all, but hey.  It's long.   awesome, for real

https://killedbygoogle.com/

Not excited about any sort of platform like this.  Although it's not likely to suffer death, unless Google fails, somehow, to monetize it.
Falconeer
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Reply #6 on: March 19, 2019, 02:49:55 PM

Many of those "killed" things simply morphed into something else though.

Lucas
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Reply #7 on: March 19, 2019, 03:22:46 PM

Might be worth for some games, but as a PC gamer I still want my precious mods, and also fiddle around with .cfg files, nvidia inspector and whatnot.

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Falconeer
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Reply #8 on: March 19, 2019, 03:30:42 PM

So, this is not a physical object? It's a... service?

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Reply #9 on: March 19, 2019, 03:37:14 PM


Time for game-streaming to be relaunched I guess.

1080p, internet latency and probably costs more than buying a PC that will last for years and discount games on steam... It makes sense for google, but it will be interesting to see whether it makes sense for consumers, and pricing will be a large part of that. You need to appeal to casual gamers who have no gaming platform but are still willing to pay for access to the games that run on those platforms.

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Reply #10 on: March 19, 2019, 03:42:21 PM

There are services like Utomik that are already doing this (though I don't know how good the tech is) but having just recently looked at their offerings, I found it wasn't worth it. It doesn't matter much how good the tech is if the games offered are all shit. I suspect that will have a lot more to do with the success of this than whether it can do 1080p at 60 fps, which seems to be what Google is trying to promote.

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Reply #11 on: March 19, 2019, 03:47:14 PM

So, this is not a physical object? It's a... service?
That's correct. The only physical thing is the optional Google-branded PS4-style controller which has two extra buttons (but no touchpad) and connects over Wi-Fi directly to your closest Google Stadia-enabled datacenter. If you aren't using that you can use a USB controller connected to some sort of supporting PC-style device.

The games themselves play through anything that supports Chrome.
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Reply #12 on: March 19, 2019, 03:57:36 PM

There are services like Utomik that are already doing this (though I don't know how good the tech is) but having just recently looked at their offerings, I found it wasn't worth it. It doesn't matter much how good the tech is if the games offered are all shit. I suspect that will have a lot more to do with the success of this than whether it can do 1080p at 60 fps, which seems to be what Google is trying to promote.
Google is claiming their custom AMD GPU can do 10.7 teraflops per GPU (and promising multi-GPU support) which is about 66% more than the Xbox One X's GPU which can do 6 teraflops and around NVIDIA GTX 1080 Ti territory. The Xbox One X can kind of/sort of do native 4K at 30fps with some titles. Google is claiming their GPU can do native 4K at 60 fps which sounds like a bit of a stretch unless you sacrifice some quality. 1080p at 60 fps shouldn't be an issue for most titles on a single GPU especially since these games won't have to deal with the frame rate sapping copy-protection schemes modern AAA PC FPS games have to deal with now.

Edit: the GTX 1080 Ti can do around 11 teraflops, I was comparing Google GPU's to that, not the Xbox One X GPU to the 1080 Ti

Edit: 10.7 teraflops for Google's GPU

« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 04:16:58 PM by Trippy »
01101010
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Reply #13 on: March 19, 2019, 07:49:52 PM

Not a console but yes there's a high probability that this will die an ignominious death after a few years.


Oh come on... you know what I meant.

I have nothing else to hook into the Glass quip.

Edit by Trippy: fixed title
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 09:26:01 PM by Trippy »

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #14 on: March 20, 2019, 02:26:58 AM

Iím eagerly awaiting the point where Google realizes that this wonít make them nearly as much money as their advertising business and that itís effort to run a service that targets the end customer and when google abandons it. Like everything else they did thatís not search or ads.

Probably two years from now once they have to compete with Microsoft.
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Reply #15 on: March 20, 2019, 03:16:07 AM

There is a service here in Europe (not sure if elsewhere), the name of which escapes me, and a couple of aquaintances have decided to use it instead of spending money upgrading their PCs.  The way it worked was that, if you owned a game already via Steam, then you would be able to stream that game.  Different plans for different quality, but I think they were doing 1080p at 60 FPS.  One of these guys was a former competitive CS player, and he said it was generally pretty okay.

I proposed my kids giving it a go during a vacation where we only had an older laptop with us but a decent wifi connection.  They laughed at me, basically.  Because, as it turns out, the new generation of gamers is not remotely satisfied with 1080p at 60fps.  I don't personally agree, but I am an old person.  They have 144hz monitors, and if their games are not running at close to that speed, then unhappiness ensues.  Dead in the water.

Anyway, that is something to contend with, because it begs the question of "at whom would such a service be aimed?"  I like ideas like these on the surface, but I find it always crumbles once I tear back a layer or two.  I once thought this could be a great idea at some point in the future for streaming VR content for people who don't want to invest in the equipment, but then I remind myself that A) VR is unforgiving of any kind of speed issues, B) my best games are modded, and C) VR isn't something you do on the go.  You still need other equipment as well.


"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #16 on: March 20, 2019, 03:48:50 AM

It's the direction the industry wants to go in, though. There have been rumors about this for years. Google demoed this service last year with an Assassin's creed game. Microsoft allegedly designs the next XBox around game streaming and is rumored to offer a "low end" version of its next XBox that can only stream games with limited disc space and lower tier graphics HW.

If you go with the "vision" of the industry bigwigs, then we'll all be streaming games via subscription services like "Netflix for games" to basically any device that has a web browser from your PC to "smart TVs" and you won't even be able to buy any physical or digital releases anymore.
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Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 08:22:07 AM

The main sticking point would obviously be latency. Too bad making Merca great again doesn't include a modernization of our network last mile.

Lots of potential upsides, and I think G has the weight to push similar to MS's decades-long struggle to make the Xbox a thing.

Stuff like drop-in gaming, where you can be watching a streamer and then directly enter that server. The social and interconnection stuff could open up the market the kids care about pretty wide.

Another interesting thing is the potential for scalability. If it's all running at a datacenter, game developer hardware limitations could be relaxed significantly (depending on how much money G is going to dump into the hole).

Lots of techs to line up and a need for some devs to embrace the potential, but there's no doubt this is going to shake things up.

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Reply #18 on: March 20, 2019, 08:35:18 AM

Microsoft also insisted on a multitude of things in their other consoles in the last two generations, and as a result are getting their proverbial lunch eaten.  Unless this shit is ABSOLUTELY SEEMLESS in terms of resolutions, framerates, latency and stability, they are sunk.  I live in one of the top places in the world for internet connectivity, but it isn't good enough for this yet.  If Microsoft builds their near-term future model on this, then we can just re-crown Sony.  It already sounds like I will not be buying the next gen Microsoft machine.  The Bone was the first major console I really skipped, so that would make it two in a row.

I think there is something here, a niche at the very least, and slowly improving.  I could see Steam themselves making it work, they already have a half a foot in the door.




"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #19 on: March 20, 2019, 08:39:32 AM

According to Digital Foundry:

Latency is slightly lower than it has been in the 2018 streaming demo. Depending on the device and the internet connection though it's still between 166 ms (best case high speed LAN at Moscone connected to Google Servers in the Bay Area, no jitter) to 196 ms (simulated DSL connection on a chromebook and also XBox One X).

Also visible compression artefacts and lower graphical and audio fidelity compared to the console or PC version. According to Ubisoft the Stadia servers run Linux and use AMD Vega graphics cards. The version of AC: Odyssey they demoed is a port of AC to Linux and they use Vulcan as graphics API instead of DirectX 12.

So you'll probably never see any Microsoft exclusives on Google's platform and probably also no games that use any sort of NVidia api/Nvidia cooperations (like DRX for example). This also means that every Stadia game is a port to Google's server platform which may/may not be commercially viable depening on the contracts Google offers and the amount of work that needs to be done by the dev.

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Reply #20 on: March 20, 2019, 08:45:22 AM

Google basically becomes another game console maker - at least from the point of view of publishers/developers) and so has to compete with all major players as far as platform access fees go (Epic games store, steam, Sony, MS) to get games on the service. End customers may not need to buy a physical console to use the service but given that Google has no first paty studios they need to incentivise devs/publishers to use their service.

This may prove difficult given that all major players plan to roll out their own streaming service or already have (Sony for example) and given that this will directly piss of both Microsoft and NVidia from a strategical standpoint (no DirectX, no XBox live, no NVidia HW)
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Reply #21 on: March 20, 2019, 11:33:33 AM

Google does now have its own game studio run by Jade Raymond.

Sky
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Reply #22 on: March 20, 2019, 11:42:23 AM

So you'll probably never see any Microsoft exclusives on Google's platform and probably also no games that use any sort of NVidia api/Nvidia cooperations (like DRX for example). This also means that every Stadia game is a port to Google's server platform which may/may not be commercially viable depening on the contracts Google offers and the amount of work that needs to be done by the dev.


For full market embrace, this could be an ender. But I'm sticking with my feeling that this is aimed directly at the streaming crowd (streamers and subs). In that scenario, you only need a half-dozen to maybe a dozen titles to have success (Fornite/MC/PUBG/etc).

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Reply #23 on: March 20, 2019, 11:49:29 AM

Yeah, but....upwards of 160 ms lag?  That is an FPS killer.  In fact, thatís pretty bad for most multiplayer stuff these days.  And does that not also include input lag in this case?  As in, I move my thumb stick left, and then it takes 160 ms to replicate on screen?  If so....hahahahahahaha, no way.  Surely that cannot be the case, that would make everything a drag.

I have a feeling that for something like this to have any chance, it has to be aimed at the same kind of gamer who is mostly into mobile games.  Huge potential audience to be sure, but it isnít me.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #24 on: March 20, 2019, 11:49:49 AM

this thing is bullshit crap
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Reply #25 on: March 20, 2019, 12:36:36 PM

They haven't unveiled their secret weapon: Glitchless with its patented Negative Ping Code.  awesome, for real

But yeah, this is a non-starter in most parts of the world, I suspect. Hell, Google doesn't even have the Google Store operating here, and they had how many years...?

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Reply #26 on: March 20, 2019, 01:10:26 PM

Yeah, but....upwards of 160 ms lag?
Yep, that's why I made that caveat before I wrote anything else. I don't see them able to fix that to a degree that is acceptable to the target audience.

Even I have become more intolerant of lag and framerate dips since playing on the PS4 and going back to the PC.

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Reply #27 on: March 20, 2019, 01:25:44 PM

It seems like Google Fiber never really took off and in fact it's being removed in some US cities apparently, and while Google FI the mobile network is pretty good I'd say it was not a huge success for reasons I don't know (I have it and I love it but I couldn't manage to convince anyone else to use it or even look into it). Not sure if a huge advertising push will do the trick or maybe some gaming exclusive. I thpught all yesterday that this was useless and so unnecessary but it kind of sounds as if you can play certain games without having a console or a computer and I have friends in that situation. Does this thing allows John Doe to buy Sekiro on Friday and play it even though he doesn't have a PS4 nor a modern PC? If that's the case, people COULD get addicted to such a service should it prove reliable and lag-free.

I am sure a few of us here tried the PlayStation Now service and I must say I was positively impressed with it even though the specifics were much lower than whatever Google plans on delivering both in terms of lag and picture quality. No way you can play action intensive games on it, but Red Dead Redemption was playable and good looking enough.

So personally I can't really see myself using this service, but I can see some of my less hardcore friends go "Hey I heard GTA 6 came out last week. I don't have the Playstation 5 and my laptop is old, but I am gonna get it on Google Chrome!". Looks like they are hoping for a lot of people eventually getting used to that, yes, in a way similar to phone games.

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Reply #28 on: March 20, 2019, 02:07:48 PM

So you'll probably never see any Microsoft exclusives on Google's platform and probably also no games that use any sort of NVidia api/Nvidia cooperations (like DRX for example). This also means that every Stadia game is a port to Google's server platform which may/may not be commercially viable depening on the contracts Google offers and the amount of work that needs to be done by the dev.
For full market embrace, this could be an ender. But I'm sticking with my feeling that this is aimed directly at the streaming crowd (streamers and subs). In that scenario, you only need a half-dozen to maybe a dozen titles to have success (Fornite/MC/PUBG/etc).
Most of the most popular titles to stream these days (Fornite, Apex Legends, League of Legends, CS:GO, etc.) wouldn't play well with the extra latency.

There are other less popular to stream games for which this platform would probably work well for and it'll make the logistics of streaming a lot easier for somebody just getting into streaming.
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Reply #29 on: March 20, 2019, 02:24:53 PM

Yeah, the basic concept is: I pay a certain monthly fee, and for those 30 days I can play, without time and/or hardware limits (nor any "downtime" caused by actually d/l the game and such), the complete version of games like Sekiro, Division 2, Stellaris, Football Manager, Doom Eternal and whatnot.

It's not unlike what Origin provides right now with its "premium access" tier (minus the "first you have to actually download the game on your computer" part)

On paper, it sounds good, IMO, at least for "pure" single-player titles.

---

So, I assume there will be many "tiers" for casual, hardcore gamers and other categories. I'm not sure it will simply be a weekly/monthly/annual pass. Considering the scenario I wrote above, what would you consider a reasonable subscription price?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 02:27:54 PM by Lucas »

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Rendakor
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Reply #30 on: March 20, 2019, 02:42:23 PM

The price has to be sufficiently low to justify using it instead of buying a PC or PS4; anything more than $10-$20/month and you would be better off just saving up a few hundred bucks for at least a console. And that's without the fact that the lag will make the experience worse.

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Reply #31 on: March 20, 2019, 09:41:05 PM

Latency of 150+ ms with an exceptionally good wired internet connection means this thing is a non-starter in the vast majority of the country, even for single player titles. Hell, even turn-based stuff would be a huge pain. Has anyone else tried to play a turn-based console game on an emulator that has trouble handling it, and so you get frame drops and input delay? Menuing feels gross.

And they're saying they expect this to be streamed at high quality to phones over wifi? Yeah, have fun with that outside of the Bay Area, New York, Chicago, and Seattle.

Oh, and reports are that Stadia eats up somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 GB worth of data per hour. Good luck with that, anyone with data caps.

Get out of here with that bullshit, Google.
Lucas
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Reply #32 on: March 21, 2019, 04:00:52 AM

To that, Dear Koro, Phil Harrison answers "eat shit and evolve, or die!" :

https://www.polygon.com/2019/3/20/18274811/google-stadia-interview-phil-harrison-gdc-2019 (it's quite a straightforward and interesting interview, read it all)

Quote
- One of your pitches yesterday was that Stadia is for everyone. Weíve heard that a few times over the years in the games industry, but what does ďeveryoneĒ actually mean? Here we are in the highly wired Bay Area, where the internet works pretty well. But if I live in South Dakota or Romania, maybe itís not so fast? Maybe it wonít work? Is that fair to say?

Yes, of course there will be parts of the world that we cannot reach yet, because connectivity does not reach that particular part of the population. And Iím not going to pick on any individual location or country. Having said that, I did get an email from somebody overnight from Romania saying, ďOur internet is amazing. You should build a data center here.Ē But the point is that there is a rising tide that lifts all boats.

Connectivity is becoming ubiquitous. Itís not yet ubiquitous and I completely accept that, but our goal is to reach everyone. Over time, that will be based on the continuing build-out of fixed-line broadband fiber and other infrastructure to peopleís homes.

But thereís a couple of very important technologies that are just over the horizon ó principally, 5G ó which will further accelerate [the spread of broadband], and give even greater access to even more people. It wonít happen to everyone overnight, but this is the direction of travel.

- How do you communicate that to people? How do you say to people, ďHereís this new amazing thing, but it might not be for you because you might not be in the right place?Ē

The same connectivity challenges that certain physical locations may experience today are the same challenges that prevent them from streaming video, watching YouTube, getting music, playing an online game. While Iím not trying to marginalize those people, it is the reality of the world that we live in. But everything is moving to some kind of digital, some kind of connected future.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #33 on: March 21, 2019, 05:18:02 AM

He might be right except for the fact that it isn't an evolution for the consumer.  It is an evolution for companies.  For traditional gamers, this is like saying moving all their shit to phones and tablets is an evolutions, when in most important ways it is a massive de-evolution.

I haven't read the article yet, but I am going to go out on limb and suggest this guy doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about.  Or perhaps, that he is a stooge for one of the biggest corporations in the world and doesn't actually care about what he is saying to any extent beyond getting you to stop looking behind the veil.


"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Cyrrex
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Reply #34 on: March 21, 2019, 05:24:18 AM

Quote
The same connectivity challenges that certain physical locations may experience today are the same challenges that prevent them from streaming video, watching YouTube, getting music, playing an online game. While Iím not trying to marginalize those people, it is the reality of the world that we live in. But everything is moving to some kind of digital, some kind of connected future.

Oh and this part is unbelievable bullshit.  The amount of speed and bandwidth those things require are insignificant compared to what he is proposing with Stadia.  And that is before you even get into the latency and input lag conversation.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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