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Author Topic: Artifact: The Two Tower Takedown CCG  (Read 6461 times)
schild
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Reply #70 on: January 09, 2019, 04:15:14 PM

Trippy
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Reply #71 on: January 09, 2019, 05:39:36 PM

Richard Garfield loves RNG. I know to most people RNG doesn't make sense from a competitive gaming perspective but he truly believes having RNG makes for better competitive games. Or to put it in a way that's perhaps less stupid sounding: to him, without RNG gameplay can become stale -- i.e. RNG makes gameplay more varied and interesting.

Richard Garfield - "Luck in Games" talk at ITU Copenhagen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av5Hf7uOu-o

This video is similar to the above except more painful to watch and listen to but if you go to the 34 second timestamp you can listen to him state that his personal interest is in games with high luck (RNG) and high skill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSg408i-eKw&t=34s

And that's how we ended up with Artifact.
schild
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Reply #72 on: January 09, 2019, 06:18:04 PM

I know he loves RNG. And that's why it takes a village to make his competitive games good. Drawing from a deck blind is exactly where RNG should begin and end.
Falconeer
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Reply #73 on: January 09, 2019, 07:02:39 PM

Drawing from a deck blind is exactly where RNG should begin and end.

It's hard to overstate how true these words are.

Setanta
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Reply #74 on: January 09, 2019, 08:54:22 PM

How many hits has Garfield actually had? M:TG stands out but while I loved V:TES, it never took off to the same extent, Netrunner was fun but again, couldn't compete with M:TG, SW:TCG was good but didn't sustain an audience over the years. The board games were nothing to write home about (I still have Roborally in the garage somewhere).

Of his games, only MTG stands out and Star Wars, but that has more to do with the latter's IP I suspect (although the mechanics were good).

That leaves us with artifact - which unfortunately, is incapable of sustaining numbers at the moment. I don't care about the monetisation of the game, it just isn't fun for the bulk of players who tried it, and without the numbers, the devs are going to be questioning what to do.

I wish there was some happy medium but the RNG and flawed cards are letting the gameplay down badly.

This game didn't need Richard Garfield and it certainly needed a better beta stage.

With a full set of cards, I've stopped playing for now, in hope that they do something with it to revitalise the game.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
schild
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Reply #75 on: January 09, 2019, 09:13:13 PM

They absolutely did NOT need Garfield to turn DOTA into a card game. Especially if they were just gonna fuck it up.

There's just so much wrong with the entire situation that I can't actually form completely cohesive thoughts about it.
Falconeer
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Reply #76 on: January 11, 2019, 04:24:50 AM

After much waiting for a miracle patch the new update released yesterday does... nothing. Except halving the timer, which would supposedly make games faster but also kill a lot of people who couldn't act fast enough. If your time runs out, you automatically forfeit the game. Very, very weird decisions at Valve.

schild
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Reply #77 on: January 11, 2019, 07:55:20 AM

As I said, they don't know what they're doing.
Draegan
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Reply #78 on: January 11, 2019, 11:46:35 AM

So sad, the client is so beautiful.
Setanta
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Reply #79 on: January 16, 2019, 08:37:55 PM

The game is sitting at between 1500 and 2400 concurrent players. How the hell are Valve going to fix this? F2P isn't going to resolve the issues.

I know they were trying to DOTA this with 3 lanes, but I'm wondering if the complexity is one of the issues. It would be interesting if they trialed a mono lane league followed bu a dual, followed by the game as it exists now with higher rewards for playing the tri-lane to ease new players in and allowing hard core to play the existing game. Getting rid of creep RNG/arrows would be my real hate and they could ditch it. I'm grasping at straws really, I jumped in last night, played 1 game and called it quits after RNG chewed me up from a solid position.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
schild
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Reply #80 on: January 16, 2019, 08:43:23 PM

i could fix it

 Ohhhhh, I see.
Setanta
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Reply #81 on: January 16, 2019, 08:45:06 PM

Someone needs to because Valve don't seem to have a clue.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
schild
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Reply #82 on: January 16, 2019, 08:56:59 PM

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

it won't be them

Much like CZE, they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
Falconeer
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Reply #83 on: January 17, 2019, 06:42:06 AM

We should bet on how they are gonna try to fix it. Obviously they are going for something dramatic. For example, a big patch was planned for January 11th and they pushed it to the 21st. Now I wonder if they are trying something big so soon, or if they will let it die slowly while planning a HUGE revamp behind the scene and some sort of total relaunch, as Final Fantasy XIV did it, close to The International 9.

So, what are they gonna do? If they embrace the Hearthstone/MtG Arena model which is free to play with cards grind, they'd have to refund too much to every customer and I still they could still be sued by some American with time to waste, but I still owuldn't be surprised if they decided to go with that. Also, it is obvious that they need to swallow their pride and rework the RNG elements. How? Which ones? When?

For the record, I really like the game even in its present form.

Draegan
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Reply #84 on: January 17, 2019, 09:07:07 AM

It's just bizarre they decided to go with random creeps and random attack patterns. DOTA/LOL both have predictable creep/minion deployment patterns and you can almost always predict their AI when it comes to what they are attacking.
Falconeer
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Reply #85 on: January 17, 2019, 09:11:04 AM

Exactly. Yet I tried asking on Reddit and another message board if anyone knew of early versions being tested without arrows and the answer is always STFU WITHOUT ARROWS IT WOULD BE ALWAYS THE SAME AND HEROES WOULD BE TOO POWERFUL. Ridiculous. With that said, I wonder if such a version ever existed in early designs, less RNG, less arrows and more precise card placement and for some reason didn't work or wasn't fun enough and so eventually they came up with this stupid solution.

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Reply #86 on: January 17, 2019, 10:31:01 AM

Reddits artifact community is one of the worst gaming communities on Reddit.
Setanta
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Reply #87 on: January 17, 2019, 04:34:43 PM

It's absolutely toxic, from the "hurr durr this game is failing" trolls to the "I don't want to spend money" kidlets, not to mention the "If this game isn't your thing then leave" elitists.

I've not seen the first this bad in a reddit before, the second is just a total failure to understand that it's cheaper to put a cardset together than most games and the last, well sadly people did just that.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
schild
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Reply #88 on: January 17, 2019, 05:28:42 PM

People who hate any CCGs because they're expensive and they can't afford them desperately need a new hobby and a visit to gambler's anonymous.
Hoax
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Reply #89 on: January 17, 2019, 09:23:07 PM

here's why artifact "sucks".

optimal play feels bad to anyone who doesn't just enjoy discovering and breaking games by playing optimally.

heroes are garbage. optimal strats are about suiciding them at proper times as often as its about keeping them alive. when you play a hero to a lane often they just do nothing on their own. it feels wrong to people. its not a truly bad game but its a game that doesn't play the way people want/expect it to play and the things they think are cool/powerful aren't actually at all. so people don't want to play it.

yes the length, complexity, model, costs etc. those don't help, but if they don't fix heroes and the way heroes "feel" the game is DOA. period.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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schild
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Reply #90 on: January 18, 2019, 12:43:26 AM

It's way more than that. The game, from the ground up, was designed to make you actually play into feelbad uninteractable moments. I don't know if this is Garfields fault or Valve's fault, but it's astounding they can't figure out how to fix it.
Ironwood
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Reply #91 on: January 18, 2019, 03:29:05 AM

Did you delete your medium thing ?  I was going to catchup on what's killed the latest Be There, and I can't find your article 'cause the linky no worky ?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Teleku
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Reply #92 on: January 18, 2019, 03:32:36 AM

Probably asleep right now, but yes, he did.  Don't know why, but I remember him mentioning he killed it.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Reply #93 on: January 18, 2019, 05:06:37 AM

Why? Did it trigger some reactions?

schild
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Reply #94 on: January 18, 2019, 08:44:13 AM

Not quite for that reason awesome, for real
Teleku
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Reply #95 on: January 18, 2019, 11:40:57 AM

Heh, because nobody responded in the comments?

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
schild
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Reply #96 on: January 18, 2019, 11:50:54 AM

you're in discord, you know exactly why i deleted it
Falconeer
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Reply #97 on: January 18, 2019, 06:00:24 PM

Quote
1/18 Update

Fixed the game engine pausing when bringing up the Steam Overlay.
Added buttons to the HUD for viewing decklists.
Fixed not being able to inspect heroes in Minimap.
Fixed Marrowfell Brawler dialog not working.
Fixed being able to get the Fought Well bonus in tied games.
Visual improvements for Keenfolk Musket, Sow Venom, Fury Swipes, Corrosive Skin, and Hellbear Crippler.
Fixed visual bugs with heroes sometimes overlapping during deployment.
Thundergod's Wrath now shows its played card after the animation.
Various stability improvements.

Reduced length of various animations and effects:
Card draw
Entering and exiting shopping
When opponent plays an Improvement the camera no longer scrolls to the target lane
Dimensional Portal, Defensive Bloom, Sow Venom
Eclipse, Thundergod's Wrath, Poof

schild
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Reply #98 on: January 18, 2019, 07:10:26 PM

WOW LOOK AT ALL THOSE THINGS THAT CHANGE NOTHING
Setanta
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Reply #99 on: January 19, 2019, 02:26:14 AM

I'm certain the 2000 odd people left playing this appreciate these QoL changes.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
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Reply #100 on: January 19, 2019, 03:56:37 AM

I believe it's the opposite. Those who are left are there waiting for a big nice fat miracle patch. Every time we see a new update, and it's nothing, our heart sinks a bit and we feel like "fuck it, this is it".

Falconeer
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Reply #101 on: January 28, 2019, 04:43:20 PM

More card nerf/changes.


Item Card Changes:
Blade of the Vigil: Cleave increased from +2 to +4
Keenfolk Plate: Added "Equipped hero's attackers have -1 Armor"
Stonehall Pike cost reduced from 6 gold to 5 gold
Stonehall Plate cost reduced from 6 gold to 5 gold
Barbed Mail cost reduced from 6 gold to 5 gold
Assassins' Veil cost reduced from 6 gold to 4 gold
Phase Boots cost reduced from 6 gold to 5 gold
Broadsword cost reduced from 7 gold to 6 gold
Keenfolk Musket cost reduced from 7 gold to 6 gold
Chainmail cost reduced from 7 gold to 6 gold
Fur-lined Mantle cost reduced from 7 gold to 6 gold
Red Mist Maul cost reduced from 10 gold to 9 gold
Obliterating Orb cost reduced from 10 gold to 9 gold
Ring of Tarrasque cost reduced from 12 gold to 10 gold
Cloak of Endless Carnage cost reduced from 13 gold to 10 gold
Claymore cost reduced from 15 gold to 14 gold
Platemail cost reduced from 15 gold to 12 gold
Hero's Cape cost reduced from 15 gold to 12 gold

Private Lobby & Tournament Changes:
Added Random Two Color deck option for private lobbies and tournaments. This gives both players different randomized 2-color decks in each match.
Added Speed Timer option for private lobbies and tournaments. This allows players 10 seconds to take each action.
Automated Open Tournaments are now 'Chaos Blitz'. Chaos Blitz is Random Two Color, Speed Timer, 8 player free-for-all lasting for 1 hour and 30 minutes

Bug Fixes & Other Changes:
Hovering gold in the HUD displays the amount of gold spent but not yet revealed through playing items (this is a clue rather than an exact amount because of hidden information with Hold, Shop Deed, etc.)
Fixed Rebel Instigator combat arrows not appearing sometimes
Fixed issue with Plague wards spawn particles
Fixed losing a few seconds from the action timer after deployment
Fixed tournament draft replays not showing selected cards
Fixed long persona names such as getting cut off
Fixed crosslane targets sometimes not showing in Last Action text.
Fixed Chat Wheel lines for Rebel Decoy, Pit Fighter of Quoidge, Zeus, and Beastmaster
Reduced low end noise in deck building ambient audio
Added particle effects for some passive abilities
Slightly reduced draw card animation speed (time between draws remains the same)
Slightly increased the time between Eclipse beams (intro/outro time remains the same)
Improved stability
Updated localization files

Unchanged:
Still in it for the long haul

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #102 on: January 28, 2019, 06:30:41 PM

According to a reader mail submission on last week’s Giant Bombcast (so take it with a grain of salt) Garfield and his team have been let go at Valve mid January. Also this being Valve - a company with no hierarchy and leadership - many internal developers already moved on to other projects because no one wants to work ona failing game.
schild
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Reply #103 on: January 28, 2019, 06:36:46 PM

They should've responded to my job application.
Falconeer
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Reply #104 on: January 28, 2019, 06:39:17 PM

You must be wrong Jeff. Haven't you read the patch notes?

Quote
Still in it for the long haul

You must be wrong.

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