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Author Topic: The Mandalorian  (Read 130636 times)
Cyrrex
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Reply #665 on: December 18, 2020, 09:35:03 AM

I can't believe they dared to go there.

But they totally pulled it off.

I was on the edge of my seat the whole time.

God damn.  Blown away. 

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Velorath
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Reply #666 on: December 18, 2020, 11:56:51 AM


Good finale. Although for all the complaints about Carano's acting in the series, I think Sackhoff gives the absolute worst performance on the show.


I can't believe they dared to go there.

But they totally pulled it off.

I was on the edge of my seat the whole time.

God damn.  Blown away. 

Abagadro
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Reply #667 on: December 18, 2020, 12:32:01 PM



Also, be sure to stay past the credits.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Quinton
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Reply #668 on: December 18, 2020, 12:36:11 PM

That was extremely satisfying.

The Mandalorian is perhaps the best Star Wars thing since the original trilogy, for me at least.
Shannow
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Reply #669 on: December 18, 2020, 01:57:23 PM

I don't think its Sackhoff's acting it was the line's they gave her. There's some shit writing in this series at time. I'm dissapointed they let Bill Burr go, he was actually good. Carano is still godawful.

Uncanny valley is still deep.

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eldaec
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Reply #670 on: December 18, 2020, 05:08:13 PM

I thought it was good.

But is the person Gus shot dead?

Because people had had that happen before and not been dead, and I feel we should know at this point.


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Threash
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Reply #671 on: December 18, 2020, 05:33:30 PM

Who? I'm pretty sure nobody is dead.

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koro
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Reply #672 on: December 18, 2020, 05:40:51 PM

Bo-Katan is alive. She gets up toward the end of the scene, a bit shaky. You can see her in the group shot just before the credits.
Khaldun
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Reply #673 on: December 18, 2020, 06:11:06 PM

Well. Interesting.

BobtheSomething
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Reply #674 on: December 18, 2020, 08:30:43 PM

Did anyone else hear “maclunkey” in the after credits scene?
Abagadro
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Reply #675 on: December 18, 2020, 09:15:42 PM

Ya, Bib definitely threw one. The guys who run this show are hilarious.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
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Reply #676 on: December 18, 2020, 10:10:02 PM

Ok, that was deeply satisfying, and well done. 


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Reply #677 on: December 18, 2020, 11:28:56 PM

I'm almost disappointed that they're going to do another season, because that feels like a really good place to wrap up the whole thing.  Wonder where they're planning on going with it.

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Reply #678 on: December 18, 2020, 11:42:00 PM

I feel a little less enthused about the ending than you guys. The uncanny valley is still way too uncanny, and it was distracting as fuck.


Bo-Katan surviving was a bit confusing, as was the necessity for the post-credits scene. The Mandos shitting on Boba Fett for the armor is odd, but I'm not quite sure I get why they don't like him. Is it because he didn't fight for the armor, he just got it off his dead dad's body?

I'm assuming next season of the Mandalorian is going to be about the ramifications of Mando winning the dark saber.

Abagadro
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Reply #679 on: December 19, 2020, 12:12:05 AM

They think he is just a random clone and mandalorians also seem kinda racist.

The post-credit bit sets up a spin-off that was announced today. 

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
eldaec
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Reply #680 on: December 19, 2020, 01:08:26 AM

The mandos disliking the Fetts is a carryover from clone wars.

They didn't like jango either.

It is like the "you're one of them" thing. The culture is full of stupid sectarian squabbles about what makes a true Mandalorian.

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Velorath
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Reply #681 on: December 19, 2020, 01:40:38 AM

I guess. Not knowing shit about Mandalorians prior to watching the series I kinda just took everything that was shown in season 1 as an accurate representation of how they are. I feel like the whole "what does it actually mean to be a Mandalorian" thing this season has brought up is the plot thread/world building element that has suffered the most from dragging in the Clone Wars stuff and maybe assuming the audience has a familiarity with it. Bo-Katan barely feels like a character to me. The nebulous idea of her getting the Darksaber and retaking Mandalore despite it being said that the Empire turned it to glass is put forth without any real explanation as to what that entails or why we should care. The explanations of how Boba and Jango fit in with the Mandalorians seem almost contradictory from episode to episode. Mando's clan gets characterized like they're some weird cult who follow these strict, ancient beliefs, but then Bo-Katan is the one who is like "nope, can't take that Darksaber you're trying to hand me, I'm going to need to kick the shit out of you at some point now because thems the rules".

Honestly, aside from Mando slowly realizing he's probably ok taking the helmet off, the season 1 representation of Mandalorians was a lot more interesting than where it looks like we're heading. If Grogu is written out of the show even in the short-term to focus on this Darksaber/retake Mandalore stuff I'm curious to see if the show's mainstream popularity wanes at all.
Abagadro
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Reply #682 on: December 19, 2020, 01:52:37 AM

I'm curious about that as well. My wife doesn't give a flying fuck about all the star wars lore and easter eggs and just laughs at me when I geek out about them. She is ALL about Baby Yoda.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
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Reply #683 on: December 19, 2020, 01:59:30 AM

You don't need to go back to the Clone Wars series for the tension.  It was shown in the prequel trilogy that Boba Fett was a clone of Jengo Fett, but without the fast aging process the other clones got, so he could raise him a son.  Thus he looks and sounds just like all the clone troopers from the Clone Wars.

I guess it's hard for me to come from a view of somebody who doesn't know anything about the lore (Because I do), but I think the clash of ideals between the different factions makes sense.  Mandalore has always been a very militant and ritual/traditionally based society.  So even Bo-Katan is very bound to core rules that others would find silly.  Mando, however, is actually apart of what is kinda of a.... ultra-Facist death cult (the casual viewer is not really aware of that, but from what information they've given so far, you should at least pick up they are in fact outside the norm).  Just as we have various levels of political and religious extremist, so do they.  I do wish they'd maybe focus on that a little bit more.

One thing I will say, looking back at older episodes, I do miss the vibe of the first several episodes.  They took time to focus on gritty parts of the city as Mando walked though.  Strolling through markets filled with people hawking food, begging, or passed out on drugs.  A much more close in look at post war society in the universe that was interesting.  And as much as we all love Baby Yoda..... I really liked it when he had the freedom to just be a bastard and a shitty world making his way.  Pure western, instead of caregiver.  I'd like to see more of that again.  The later episodes had to concentrate more on pushing plot forward, and thus we got a lot more clean cityscapes and neighborhoods, with less world building.


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eldaec
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Reply #684 on: December 19, 2020, 02:48:40 AM

I guess. Not knowing shit about Mandalorians prior to watching the series I kinda just took everything that was shown in season 1 as an accurate representation of how they are.

Definitely think this hasn't been great.

Mandalore as we last saw it was a modern society trying to reconcile its past as a bunch of tribal/honorable bonkers/proud warriors/zealots. They had proper tribal politics and intrigue, they even managed to stick the landing on Obi Wan screwing the Queen. If they are going back to this and handle it as well as clone wars it can definitely be more interesting than the S1 tribe.

I think the idea was give the viewer the experience of main character discovering he was part of a tiny sect and then learning of the wider community.

But the actual delivery means viewers who know about mandalore were left wondering if this show is just ignoring the continuity and those who haven't are now just confused as they introduce wider mandalore.

The first Katee Sackoff episode is only one that did this well.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 02:54:46 AM by eldaec »

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Khaldun
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Reply #685 on: December 19, 2020, 05:51:11 AM

So I'm thinking the Mando who forges armor who pronounced Pedro's Mando to be a clan of two and charged him to find the Jedi for Baby Yoda is gonna come back in the picture and probably be mad that he's not sticking to the religion any longer. Whenever she shows up that's a good time for a Mandalorian explainer. Though I don't even think they're that interesting per se--they're basically Klingons in armor who have enough fighting skills and tech to take on Jedi, including all the internal conflicts that Klingons/warrior races tend to have in genre works. I think it would be better if the first couple of episodes dispense with Mandalorian lore and then the real arc moves on to something else entirely--something that brings Baby Yoda back into the mix.
eldaec
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Reply #686 on: December 19, 2020, 06:03:44 AM

I get that baby Yoda is cute, and I was surprised they wrote him out.

But is there really anywhere else to go with him in the show?

Seems like confident and logical writing for him to drop out now, maybe show up later as a guest puppet.

I can't really imagine what the show will be if they make about retaking Mandalore, but it is one plot line Filoni has handled consistently well in the past, so I have a lot of faith they can do it again.

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Khaldun
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Reply #687 on: December 19, 2020, 07:23:16 AM

They don't stick to any homage for very long, so doing Lone Wolf and Cub for two whole seasons was almost a record. But yeah, much like the comic, at some point it gets old.

I'm not sure people are even catching how many films they're homaging (sometimes almost ripping off) because of how many they move through. The episode on the tropical planet with the mining crawler and Bill Burr's character was homaging "Sorcerer" while they were driving the crawler, for example.
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Reply #688 on: December 19, 2020, 07:23:59 AM

But is there really anywhere else to go with him in the show?

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Hammond
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Reply #689 on: December 19, 2020, 10:13:23 AM

I really enjoyed the last episode and while the CGI was a little over the top I think it worked in this instance. Giancarlo Esposito really makes a great villain and is one of the reasons the show is so great. One of the biggest problems for me with the final 3 movies is the villains are poorly written and don't really provide a good foil to the good guys.

Post season 2 I thought there might be a spin off show for Bo-Katan with overlap on season 3 of Mandalorian. So when Disney announced all of the spin offs at the investor meeting and there wasn't anything announced for Bo-Katan I was wondering where they were going to go with the Mandalorian. After watching the last episode I wonder if the retaking of Mandalore will be the big cumulation of all the spin offs. Say around season 5 of Mandalorian? Since Mandalore or the Mandalorian's were not in the final 3 movies I think they can pretty much do whatever they want with that corner of the universe.

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Reply #690 on: December 19, 2020, 11:27:08 AM

You don't need to go back to the Clone Wars series for the tension.  It was shown in the prequel trilogy that Boba Fett was a clone of Jengo Fett, but without the fast aging process the other clones got, so he could raise him a son.  Thus he looks and sounds just like all the clone troopers from the Clone Wars.

See, I totally don't remember that at all, probably because that movie was shit and I've blocked most of it. That would make sense though but surely I'm not alone in just not being that up on the Star Wars minutiae because the prequels blew so hard. I really wonder how interesting the show ill be without Grogu. That puppet really did make the series.

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Reply #691 on: December 19, 2020, 12:25:02 PM

You don't need to go back to the Clone Wars series for the tension.  It was shown in the prequel trilogy that Boba Fett was a clone of Jengo Fett, but without the fast aging process the other clones got, so he could raise him a son.  Thus he looks and sounds just like all the clone troopers from the Clone Wars.

Yeah I know that part. I mean the whole thing where Mando's like "fuck you Boba, you can't have that armor" and Boba explained to Mando that yeah, he's not a Mandolorian but the armor belonged to his father who fought in some Mandolorian war and when he died the armor went to Boba so it's kinda ok for him to have it, and Mando (who was admittedly in a tight spot at the time) was pretty much like "ok, fair enough then". Then a couple episodes later when they talk to Bo-Katan we go through the whole "fuck you Boba, you shouldn't have that armor" thing again, only this time without the reasonable explanation as to why it's ok for him to have it.

So I don't understand whether or not Jango got his armor through legitimate means, and if so whether or not it was allowed to be passed onto Boba who (clone or not) was essentially Jango's adopted kid. I'm sure the actual answer is just handwaved away as different sects of Mandalorians following different rules, and the writers saying deciding they needed conflict between these characters. But for a show called The Mandalorian I feel like now know less about their culture than I did near the start of the series and I can't say that's a good thing.
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Reply #692 on: December 19, 2020, 01:05:40 PM

Mando's clan gets characterized like they're some weird cult who follow these strict, ancient beliefs, but then Bo-Katan is the one who is like "nope, can't take that Darksaber you're trying to hand me, I'm going to need to kick the shit out of you at some point now because thems the rules".


The difference makes sense if you watched Clone Wars and stuff. Mando's clan is Death Watch which are old school Mando extremists. Ironically, Bo Katan used to be one of them but left them eventually. The Dark Saber is a totally different situation. That's more about tradition. The closest thing I can think of is it's sort of like Excalibur in the Arthurian legends. Whoever wields it is the King/Queen. If Bo Katan just gets it handed to her, then other Mandos may say "You didn't earn it." I think the easiest out is just to say "I'll tell everyone you whipped my ass and took it from me" but I think that it's honor keeping that from happening.


So I don't understand whether or not Jango got his armor through legitimate means, and if so whether or not it was allowed to be passed onto Boba who (clone or not) was essentially Jango's adopted kid. I'm sure the actual answer is just handwaved away as different sects of Mandalorians following different rules, and the writers saying deciding they needed conflict between these characters. But for a show called The Mandalorian I feel like now know less about their culture than I did near the start of the series and I can't say that's a good thing.

Think of it as a combination of cultural appropriation plus a looting of cultural treasures. It'd be like somebody not from Wakanda having a Black Panther suit without permission of the people of Wakanda.

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Velorath
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Reply #693 on: December 19, 2020, 01:29:57 PM

Think of it as a combination of cultural appropriation plus a looting of cultural treasures. It'd be like somebody not from Wakanda having a Black Panther suit without permission of the people of Wakanda.

Maybe my confusion in this respect is that I don't think they say in what capacity Jango fought in these wars, what side was he fighting on, and if the armor was given to him by Mandalorians, if he took it as a trophy at some point, etc...

It felt like they tried to explain Boba/Jango's connection to Mandalorians without really explaining it.
NowhereMan
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Reply #694 on: December 19, 2020, 01:57:51 PM

It sounded like Jango was involved with Mandalore in some way (I think Mando said he was a foundling?) but there's obviously something about the way Boba acts that instantly identifies him as non-Mandalorian. In the case of Bo Katan I think they're assuming he's a regular Republic clone trooper. Unless there's some Clone Wars background that connects the two, I can't think there's any reason why the Mandalorians would know there was any kind of unique relationship between Jango and Boba. I read that scene as them just assuming he was some random trooper who grabbed a suit of Mandalorian armour off his dead DNA donor. Even if they felt Jango was entitled to wear the armour they wouldn't recognise a clone trooper having some right to it.

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Threash
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Reply #695 on: December 19, 2020, 02:06:31 PM

Boba Fett is famous. They have a problem with him because he is a bounty hunter and works for the empire. They are upset because most people assume he is a mandalorian, that's why they resent him having the armor. Has nothing to do with how he got it, just how he uses it.

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HaemishM
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Reply #696 on: December 19, 2020, 02:08:39 PM

I think this discussion about Boba really highlights again just how fucking shitty the worldbuilding and narrative was in the prequels (don't get me started on the sequels). The fact that the main movie series just absolutely glossed over the clone wars completely reflects how little Lucas actually thought they mattered. Didn't we only hear about the Clone Wars outside the movies? Like was it ever even mentioned in the actual original movies or was it only just one line on Boba Fett's toy packaging that Extended Universe writers and fans turned into this huge thing because Boba Fett looked so cool? According to Googling, it was mentioned in one line in A New Hope and not again until the prequels.

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Reply #697 on: December 19, 2020, 02:14:33 PM

I think this discussion about Boba really highlights again just how fucking shitty the worldbuilding and narrative was in the prequels (don't get me started on the sequels). The fact that the main movie series just absolutely glossed over the clone wars completely reflects how little Lucas actually thought they mattered. Didn't we only hear about the Clone Wars outside the movies? Like was it ever even mentioned in the actual original movies or was it only just one line on Boba Fett's toy packaging that Extended Universe writers and fans turned into this huge thing because Boba Fett looked so cool? According to Googling, it was mentioned in one line in A New Hope and not again until the prequels.

It was mentioned in the most important scene of the entire Star Wars cannon, when Obi Wan explains the force to Luke and gives him the lightsaber.

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Khaldun
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Reply #698 on: December 19, 2020, 03:14:59 PM

You know, it's not that different from knights in medieval settings. None of us would be getting salty if we were watching a fantasy epic and an armored knight got all pissy when he saw a low-born fighter wearing a noble's suit of armor. Nor would we be that surprised if that code was inconsistent or contradictory where the knight didn't enforce it if it was inconvenient or if the low-born was someone with political power or even if he just took a liking to the plucky peasant who'd taken some armor off a dead man in order to survive a desperate battle, etc.
eldaec
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Reply #699 on: December 19, 2020, 04:19:27 PM

I think this discussion about Boba really highlights again just how fucking shitty the worldbuilding and narrative was in the prequels (don't get me started on the sequels). The fact that the main movie series just absolutely glossed over the clone wars completely reflects how little Lucas actually thought they mattered. Didn't we only hear about the Clone Wars outside the movies? Like was it ever even mentioned in the actual original movies or was it only just one line on Boba Fett's toy packaging that Extended Universe writers and fans turned into this huge thing because Boba Fett looked so cool? According to Googling, it was mentioned in one line in A New Hope and not again until the prequels.

I kind of disagree.

The prequels built a perfectly fine world. They just didn't use it well. You are right that the clone wars, indeed the entire separatist / republic conflict, were only a thing for the last ten minutes of one film and the first ten minutes of another. But it did give other writers everything they needed to go fill that in. The films spent a lot of time explaining the republic, the jedi order, we know quite a lot about the droid armies.

I cannot imagine how you would start to put together a show like Clone Wars set in the sequel era. You'd be starting with really fundamental questions like what the fuck is the resistance, and what does the republic and FO society even look like? What is the relationship between the republic and the resistance?

The resistance cartoon notably set it itself in the middle of fucking nowhere - I can imagine why they did that.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 04:21:18 PM by eldaec »

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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
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