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Author Topic: The Mandalorian  (Read 44600 times)
Draegan
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Reply #525 on: November 27, 2020, 10:23:23 PM

For reference, I never watched any of the cartoons but I've read a little bit about the basics. I've started watching them, but I'm only 10 episodes in to Clone Wars season 1.

First thing, this episode probably had the best music and visuals so far. Better than almost any movie imo. Watching Asohka fight felt more real - less clean and less rehersed/choregraphed. She was ruthless.

And OMG Thrawn. Fuck yes.

Here's my theory on what they are doing with Mando and the future of Star Wars - in bullet points.

The Sequels are trash and most people believe so, or at the very least they watched and forgot about them and don't give a fuck.
Feloni and Favreau need to find a way to bypass the Sequels to compel Star Wars into the future to create new movies. That's the ultimate goal.
You can't have new movies in between the OT and Sequels because there isn't enough room for an epic story arc.
How do you bypass the sequels? Introduce Thrawn into the live action world (I don't know much about him from Rebels so excuse my ignorance and don't spoil me).
So you have these books Thawn was in that nearly every SW nerd would love to have had instead of the sequels.
Feloni and Favreau have admitted that in order to be successful is that you have to respect the source material as well as grow it. I.e. sequels did not respect shit.

So you can essentially bypass the sequels with Thrawn. How?

So the sequels were so poorly written that there is no backstory. Outside some books and comics you really don't know how we got from RotJ and the New Order. We don't know where the New Order really came from (and books and comics can easily get retconned), we don't know anything about Snoke except it was shoehorned that Palpitine made him or some dumb shit. We know that the New Republic fell apart after like 5 worlds got blown up. We know that Leia was kind of laughed at and was forced to start up a "Resistance" because no one took her seriously. The whole timeline of the sequels is like 6 months long or some stupid short period of time.

Because of the extremely poor world building and plot of the sequels you can easily just put it in it's own self contained world where everything happened in this small portion of the galaxy and everyone else really wasn't impacted by it (which was kind of shown to be true in TLJ and Rise because fuck all really happened)

So with all that being said, with the excellent world building of Mandalorian which some hints of things happen else where, you can see how they can lay the ground work for jumping ahead  into the future and really creating a new story that actually makes sense and not have to "retcon" the whole sequel and instead ignore it and quarantine it away and write around it.

That's my initial impression and rambling of it all.
Draegan
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Reply #526 on: November 27, 2020, 10:25:48 PM

Pretty amazing Easter eggs and foreshadowing in this episode.   Anyone else catch that Pedro Pascal's character in GoT's used a spear?   What did the Mandalorian get in this episode... a lightsaber resisting spear.   Should be useful against a certain Moff Gideon and his Dark Saber.   Trial by combat Pt 2 anyone?

Good point, but I don't think that happens this season. If Mando is heading to the core, Gideon won't follow him with a contingent of Imperials where the New Republic is the strongest. I think you a confrontation being set up for Season 3.
Abagadro
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Reply #527 on: November 27, 2020, 11:04:49 PM

With all the pure Beskar dude is accumulating he is probably one of the richest guys in the sector at this point.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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BobtheSomething
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Reply #528 on: November 28, 2020, 01:25:38 AM

Baby Yoda isn't a dick - he's just a baby. He knows the concept of hunger and "mine." Not sure you could attribute his actions to much more than that.

I blamed the Mando. 

We also went through IVF and were offended that they kept going with the egg eating. Once or twice was darkly funny.  Then the mom-to-be explains her stakes.  By the 4th time the Mando just sat there watching a toddler potentially fuck up someone’s life (and maybe get shanked for it), it made me resent the writers.  A lot. 

Until the next episode.

But yeah, I expected the real drama to be the frog lady plotting revenge against BY and the Mando learning a lesson about parenting.  But instead, space spiders.  Whatever.
eldaec
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Reply #529 on: November 28, 2020, 04:33:55 AM

I wasn't totally sold on the costume though.

It looked exactly like her last clone wars outfit. Unless you mean it should have been her rebels outfit, which actually makes sense.

I wasn't complaining about the design, but the quality.

For example the headpiece looked too obviously like a prop.

The little foam wrinkles, which sure you can argue a wrinkles because she has aged, just looked like wrinkles in a foam headpiece.

It was a little more Doctor Who than Star Wars.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 04:36:45 AM by eldaec »

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Threash
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Reply #530 on: November 28, 2020, 08:57:32 AM

Actually I think I saw the tip of one her flappies move around so I'm not sure it was just a foam prop.

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eldaec
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Reply #531 on: November 28, 2020, 09:16:55 AM

Either way and that aside, live action ahsoka far exceeded my expectations.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #532 on: November 28, 2020, 10:06:33 AM

It was also an outstanding casting choice.  I kinda love Rosario Dawson anyway, but she really looked like Ahsoka Tano.

I am a total fanboi of this show.  My favorite SW.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
HaemishM
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Reply #533 on: November 28, 2020, 11:57:14 AM

I've been somewhat amazed by the caliber of guest star they've had on this show. Dawson, Michael Biehn, Giancarlo Esposito, Katie Sackhoff, Ming Na Wen, Carl Weathers, Gina Caruso. I probably shouldn't be as Disney has enough money to bribe all of them a million times over, and Jon Favreau knows enough of them to maybe ask a favor, but still it has helped keep the show on a level of acting quality that was a bit unexpected. I'm not saying it's an Oscar studded cast, but still impressive.

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Reply #534 on: November 28, 2020, 01:31:07 PM

I’ve liked pretty much all the guest stars, but aside from Dawson and Herzog I can’t see any of the others taking a lot to get on board.
Threash
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Reply #535 on: November 28, 2020, 01:54:23 PM

And Dawson is playing one of the franchises most liked characters, Filoni's original character and someone who is going to probably get their own show eventually.

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eldaec
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Reply #536 on: November 28, 2020, 03:22:43 PM

And Dawson usually gets cast as Rosario Dawson. She has more to gain from playing a different damn character for a change than anyone else in the show.

For me it wasn't just that she looked and acted like Ahsoka, she  was convincing as Ahsoka plus however many years of experience.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 03:26:00 PM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Speedy Cerviche
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Reply #537 on: November 28, 2020, 03:45:21 PM

I've been somewhat amazed by the caliber of guest star they've had on this show. Dawson, Michael Biehn, Giancarlo Esposito, Katie Sackhoff, Ming Na Wen, Carl Weathers, Gina Caruso. I probably shouldn't be as Disney has enough money to bribe all of them a million times over, and Jon Favreau knows enough of them to maybe ask a favor, but still it has helped keep the show on a level of acting quality that was a bit unexpected. I'm not saying it's an Oscar studded cast, but still impressive.

He doesn't need to call in favours. It's a good career move to be on a hit AAA production show. Look at all the people who landed big roles after  being on Game of thrones.
Draegan
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Reply #538 on: November 28, 2020, 04:15:32 PM

Who wouldnt want to work in the volume?
Khaldun
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Reply #539 on: November 28, 2020, 04:16:11 PM

Um. Who wasn't already a steadily-working actor who got a part on GoT and has since been hitting it big?
Cyrrex
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Reply #540 on: November 29, 2020, 05:41:24 AM

Honestly the only one that comes to mind is Jason Momoa.  Who ironically was in very little GoT.  I guess it really screwed him at first, but he came out of it all doing pretty okay.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
HaemishM
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Reply #541 on: November 29, 2020, 03:00:57 PM

As I'm starting to think on this episode before, and loath though I am to bring up the egg-sucking episode, I think that there might actually have been a little more deep thought put into that one than just a gag. It's pretty clear from Ahsoka's comments that the kid could fall to the dark side, and the egg-eating might have been a bit of a hint at how dark the kid could actually get. Granted, I still thought it was funny as hell because of the puppet's expressions, but it might actually have served a more subtle (and misunderstood) narrative arc.

Threash
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Reply #542 on: November 29, 2020, 03:59:08 PM

Probably more a reference to him force choking Cara Dune, that's always been a dark side power. Eating the eggs is like him eating the live frogs he's done in several episodes, just a baby being hungry. It was a tone deaf joke, not a plot point.

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eldaec
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Reply #543 on: November 30, 2020, 03:46:15 AM

Boba Yoda can't fall to the dark side in any realistic run of this show, because he isn't going to grow significantly in that time. He's supposed to be 50 years old. He acts like he's about 3. So by the end of the show he'll be acting roughly 3 years and 1 month.

I think they are just trying to make him into a character rather than a prop, and giving main character more moral responsibility for what happens around him.

Um. Who wasn't already a steadily-working actor who got a part on GoT and has since been hitting it big?

Emilia Clarke, Richard Madden, Kit Harrington, Sophie Turner, Jason Momoa all owe film and/or plumb TV roles to GoT. Peter Dinklage is running a tier above where he was before GoT.

They are all actual people responsible for their own careers and weren't just sitting at home watching daytime television before Got showed up at the door. But equally it would be daft not to acknowledge that GoT had opened a tonne of doors for all of them. With the possible exception of Herzog there has been noone in this who doesn't stand to benefit from the profile it gives them.

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NowhereMan
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Reply #544 on: November 30, 2020, 12:26:39 PM

I think it also kind of fits with the overall Jedi philosophy if you're looking at BY as a an actual potential person. Jedi are specifically meant to be trained before knowing anyone they could develop a strong attachment to, Ahsoka's just seen Jedi Jesus fall to the dark side because he cared about his mum and fell in love with a girl when he was 6. Seeing a potential Yoda level being who has developed a strong family bond with this bounty hunter probably just seems all kinds of bad idea.

That's without going into the simple practical issues like this kid will probably need to continue his training for the next 250 years (doing super rough human equivalencies) before he's matured sufficiently to be able to live and function without guidance as a Jedi. How long is Ahsoka's life span and if she's not sure she'll be around much after the kid if functionally 7 how responsible is it to give that child a host of dark side potential?

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eldaec
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Reply #545 on: November 30, 2020, 01:12:59 PM

You know who else started training much later than 7, and has a good time communicating with creatures that can't speak? Ezra.


Ahsoka training someone would kind of undermines her story, since she very specifically isn't a Jedi! and seems reasonable that she wouldn't feel capable of training someone because of her experience.


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Trippy
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Reply #546 on: November 30, 2020, 01:52:05 PM

Emilia Clarke, Richard Madden, Kit Harrington, Sophie Turner, Jason Momoa all owe film and/or plumb TV roles to GoT. Peter Dinklage is running a tier above where he was before GoT.
And Maisie Williams.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #547 on: December 01, 2020, 09:19:05 PM

I wouldn't call this confirmation, but speculation has certainly intensified after Ahsoka's episode had the highest IMDB rating for any in the series:

https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/liveaction-ahsoka-tano-tv-show-reportedly-moving/

--Dave

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eldaec
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Reply #548 on: December 02, 2020, 03:06:16 AM

That absolutely isn't confirmation. It is a wegotthiscovered story. It is made up horseshit themed around whatever is this week's Internet trend. Like all wegotthiscovered stories.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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Cyrrex
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Reply #549 on: December 02, 2020, 04:45:39 AM

Let's be honest, they would be stupid not to be seriously considering it.  If they could keep Rosario in that role, with similar level of budgeting, direction and effects....I would watch the absolute shit out of that.


"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Draegan
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Reply #550 on: December 02, 2020, 08:49:36 AM

I mean it's the obvious direction of expanding the D+ offering. Filoni would cut off a finger at a chance to keep that character going on a bigger platform.
Khaldun
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Reply #551 on: December 02, 2020, 10:11:53 AM

They've always needed a marquee Jedi who wasn't a Skywalker. Obi-Wan and Yoda are the only two who've made the cut to date, and Ahsoka has a great growing mythos of her own now that can sustain some story-telling that doesn't come back to the Skywalkers.

Honestly, that she managed to organize the Rebellion, presumably fought in the Rebellion unless finding Ezra took up all her time (though notably was never at any of the big events and did not show up offering to train Luke Skywalker, which is VERY interesting, given that the moment she heard his name she must have put two and two together), and is still around now creates all sorts of enticing narrative hooks that they can keep working now.
eldaec
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Reply #552 on: December 02, 2020, 10:18:52 AM

Fwiw I don't think Ahsoka would be a great fit for a long running series, but a short run thing, like they seem to be planning for Kenobi seems like a great idea.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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Khaldun
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Reply #553 on: December 02, 2020, 04:36:30 PM

The more I think about the Kenobi idea that more I think they've got some 'splaining to do. Like, if Ahsoka survived all this time, it seems to suggest that a smart enough Jedi could stay ahead of the purge. It's hard to figure out what Obi-Wan actually did all those years on Tatooine (except kill Darth Maul when he showed up) unless Luke was under constant hidden attack by bounty hunters, Inquisitors, etc., which doesn't gibe with the rebooted continuity in the comic books. He didn't get a chance to actually train Luke, apparently because of Owen Lars. A Kenobi series will be great IF they end up explaining what on earth he was actually doing all that time.
Draegan
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Reply #554 on: December 02, 2020, 08:24:24 PM

Star Wars timeline is so fucked up from Kenobi's age, the lack of Asohka being mentioned anywhere in the movies and all the other hamfisted stories that made into lore via comics/tv.

Kenobi seems very interesting, I'm excited to see what the timeline of the limited run will be.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #555 on: December 02, 2020, 08:41:03 PM

I never watched the cartoons, so I could give a shit about that. Rosario's character was interesting, and I'd like to see more of her. Not neccesarily a full multi-season series, but a 8-10 episode standalone that was never intended to continue could be fun.

--Dave

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eldaec
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Reply #556 on: December 03, 2020, 07:28:03 AM

I never understand the complaint about how 'strange' it is that Ahsoka doesn't show up in the OT movies.

In a war supposedly spanning thousands of star systems it would be weird if every character we know was alive did get screen time.

WWII films don't check in every soldier of note in the second world War.

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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
eldaec
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Reply #557 on: December 03, 2020, 07:47:31 AM

I never watched the cartoons, so I could give a shit about that. Rosario's character was interesting, and I'd like to see more of her. Not neccesarily a full multi-season series, but a 8-10 episode standalone that was never intended to continue could be fun.

--Dave

You could do worse than catching just the last 4 episodes of seasons 5 and 7 of Clone Wars. Would play as exactly that.

There would be a bunch of other plots cutting across. Notably the mandalore and maul plots, but honestly nothing that isn't fairly self explanatory.

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Rendakor
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Reply #558 on: December 03, 2020, 08:52:01 AM

I never understand the complaint about how 'strange' it is that Ahsoka doesn't show up in the OT movies.

In a war supposedly spanning thousands of star systems it would be weird if every character we know was alive did get screen time.

WWII films don't check in every soldier of note in the second world War.
It comes off as an obvious retcon, and is the biggest reason I've never watched any of the SW cartoons. It's not believable that Anakin had this secret apprentice who he was so close to that we just never see in any of the 6 movies he's in. She's not "every soldier of note" she's arguably the person who knew Vader best (aside from maybe Obi Wan), and her absence there has always made the cartoons feel more like licensed fanfic than something that was intended when the movies were shot.

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Hawkbit
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Reply #559 on: December 03, 2020, 10:38:02 AM

It's worth overlooking that fact to watch the cartoons. I'm working through them now and while there's a fair bit of fluff, there's some really great fleshing out of stories. I mean, the dang darksaber shows up in Season 2 of CW for example.
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