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Author Topic: The Mandalorian  (Read 52638 times)
eldaec
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Reply #700 on: December 19, 2020, 06:36:10 PM

Mando's clan gets characterized like they're some weird cult who follow these strict, ancient beliefs, but then Bo-Katan is the one who is like "nope, can't take that Darksaber you're trying to hand me, I'm going to need to kick the shit out of you at some point now because thems the rules".


The difference makes sense if you watched Clone Wars and stuff. Mando's clan is Death Watch which are old school Mando extremists. Ironically, Bo Katan used to be one of them but left them eventually. The Dark Saber is a totally different situation. That's more about tradition. The closest thing I can think of is it's sort of like Excalibur in the Arthurian legends. Whoever wields it is the King/Queen. If Bo Katan just gets it handed to her, then other Mandos may say "You didn't earn it." I think the easiest out is just to say "I'll tell everyone you whipped my ass and took it from me" but I think that it's honor keeping that from happening.


I'd buy into this if the last time Bo got her hands on the darksabre, it hadn't been after Sabine Wren had won it honourable combat with Gar Saxon, then Sabine flat out gave the Darksabre to Bo to in front of all the other mandalorian nobles, with a speech about how Bo had proven she was the best leader by stopping Sabine killing all the bad guys with her patented Sabine Wren murder-o-matic machine.

I don't have a problem with main character not knowing about the bullshit tradition, but Bo suddenly taking stupid traditions seriously that never used to bother her felt like a shit set up for manufactured conflict.

I thought for a moment the episode might end with Starbuck saying something like "if you can get over your stupid hat complex, I can deal with my glowstick acquisition hangups, now lets hug and cry over how we're all growing as people - then hand over the loot crybaby". That would have been fine. But I'm not a fan of the idea that main character might become chief Mandalorian because of this.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Velorath
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Reply #701 on: December 19, 2020, 07:07:58 PM

I read that scene as them just assuming he was some random trooper who grabbed a suit of Mandalorian armour off his dead DNA donor. Even if they felt Jango was entitled to wear the armour they wouldn't recognise a clone trooper having some right to it.

Maybe, although by this point we're around 30 years after the Clone Wars and (from looking it up just now) the regular (non-Boba) clones aged at twice the normal rate. They were apparently phased out of the Stormtroopers prior to the OT, and I assume they'd have mostly all died off at this point.

I mean, a lot of this stuff is minor nitpicky stuff I'll admit, but it feels like the kind of mess you get when you keep trying to retroactively build a continuity out of over 40 years of content that had a fucked up chronology baked into it from the time they decided to call Empire Strikes Back episode V.
eldaec
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Reply #702 on: December 19, 2020, 07:13:51 PM

I don't think that was the intent because Filoni's Aristiocratic Mandalorians had specific but unexplained beef with the Fetts.

Afaik noone has written anything on what the beef is - and after the Boba Fett ninja monk episode it could be as simple as upper classes being sniffy about foundlings who have the temerity to become well known.

A lot of Mandalorians are dicks.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Threash
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Reply #703 on: December 19, 2020, 08:14:45 PM

I don't know what the big mystery is, they were both giving mandalorians a bad name by running around looking like them and being shitty.

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Velorath
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Reply #704 on: December 19, 2020, 09:21:28 PM

Were they giving Mandlorians a bad name? It's hard to tell given I don't recall the word Madalorian ever having been uttered in the movies, and given that Boba Fett had like 4 lines of dialogue in the OT. Certainly just being a Bounty Hunter doesn't seem like it should be an issue as Mando is working as one at the start of the series. Sure Boba doing work for the Empire might be frowned upon (although again Mando was doing similar until he developed an attachment to Grogu) but even then it seems like Boba was working in Jabba's employ as much as the Empire's.

As portrayed in the movies, Boba is kind of a blank slate in cool armor who got knocked in to the sarlacc by a blind Han Solo as essentially a joke. The prequels added in the backstory that he was a clone whose "daddy" got his head cut off by Samuel L Jackson because he was involved in plot to... fuck, I'm still not sure I actually know what the whole plan was there. There's nothing in the movies or in The Mandalorian that informs me that Boba or Jango have done anything that would generally be frowned on by Mandalorians aside from Bo-Katan being a bit of a dick to Boba.

So far the show also hasn't given be any reason to see Bo-Katan as the exemplary example of what a Mandalorian is though. For that matter they haven't shown that there's enough Mandalorians left in the galaxy to really matter that much. It hasn't sounded like there would be enough of them left to repopulate a city let alone an entire planet so from my perspective as someone who hasn't watched the Clone Wars, Bo-Katan sounds much more like some crazy cultist than Mando does.
eldaec
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Reply #705 on: December 20, 2020, 02:00:50 AM

Bo has never been exemplary, just royalty.

She was death watch herself for a while.

I still think the best way to read the Fett issues is as simple snobbery. As you say, an objection to bounty hunting just seems weird.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Khaldun
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Reply #706 on: December 20, 2020, 08:17:38 AM

Was there ever a window of time sufficient for Satine to have Obi-Wan's child in secret? Seems to me that they could have done the deed back when he was still a lusty padawan.

Considering that the rumor that this was in fact once going to have been Rey's background (the grandchild of Obi-Wan) only Abrams changed his mind during the shitshow speed revisions to ROS, they could always throw in an actual descendent of Obi-Wan and Satine to mix stuff up next season.

I think the big problem as far as Mandalorian stuff goes is that it's pretty damn convoluted. But they've done a great job so far just creating some basic mythos around them: have to wear a mask, there is a covert, beskar is valuable, "this is the way", wait no some don't wear masks, the Darksaber has to be won in battle, etc.
eldaec
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Reply #707 on: December 20, 2020, 10:44:49 AM

We meet Satine's 'nephew' Korkie in Clone Wars, who looks strikingly similar to both his 'Aunt' and Obi Wan Kenobi. Korkie would have been conceived around the time Qui Gon and Obi Wan had been tasked to protect Satine from an insurgent plot. A bit before phantom menace.

There is a whole bit where the viewer is supposed to feel smart for noticing that Obi Wan and Satine is a parallel with Anakin and Padme. But to Filoni's credit he never explicitly spells it out.

All this could be a way to tie the Kenobi series into Mandalorian. As far as we know Korkie is still alive.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 10:50:07 AM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Draegan
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Reply #708 on: December 20, 2020, 05:54:56 PM

I'm almost disappointed that they're going to do another season, because that feels like a really good place to wrap up the whole thing.  Wonder where they're planning on going with it.

Not sure what other have posted after this. But the story is done. Mandalorian is a show about Mandalorians not Din. Dins story is done. Boba is next. Once Book of Boba  is over I'm assuming we get Book of Bo Katan.

Also Kylo Ren probably kills Baby Yoda.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 06:00:51 PM by Draegan »
Abagadro
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Reply #709 on: December 20, 2020, 07:33:08 PM

Book of Boba is a completely different show.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Draegan
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Reply #710 on: December 20, 2020, 07:56:42 PM

Book of Boba is a completely different show.

You sure about that? That's just speculation. I haven't seen an announcement of an actual show.
Trippy
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Reply #711 on: December 20, 2020, 08:24:09 PM

It hasn't been officially confirmed but all the evidence so far points to a separate series, despite sharing the same likely release month and year as Season 3.
Threash
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Reply #712 on: December 20, 2020, 08:35:33 PM

That makes very little sense.

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Abagadro
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Reply #713 on: December 20, 2020, 09:04:04 PM


"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Draegan
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Reply #714 on: December 21, 2020, 07:08:38 AM

So it's just speculation.

There isn't much left to tell about Din to be honest.

The child is with Luke.
Cara Dune is likely in the Rangers show.
Bo Katan is at her own crossroads, but her story won't likely be told in detail in a Mandalorian or a separate Boba Fett show anyway.
Gideon is captured

The only loose ends are the Dark Saber and whatever they were cloning. Only the Dark Saber is interesting and Din doesn't give a fuck about it. You could very easily see Din going back to bounty hunting or finding his people. He did come to a crossroads in his beliefs with him taking off his helmet. But those two things don't really make for an interesting show.

It's time for something new and exciting and the Boba Fett show can take the helm of the Mandalorian. Didn't Lucas want to do a live action show years ago about the criminal underbelly of the Galaxy? Well here you go. I can't see them doing a secret show that wasn't announced a week ago.

That article you linked Ab says it would be very difficult to do. I don't think so. I think any story you tell with Din at this point would be a bit forced.
Cyrrex
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Reply #715 on: December 21, 2020, 07:33:53 AM

I find it reeeeeeeeal difficult to see any of this going foward without Baby Yoda.  Whether in this series or an immediate spinoff.  The just created the biggest pop culture cash cow in recent memory, I don't see them just writing that off.  Mando did say he was going to see him again, and I take him at his word.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Draegan
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Reply #716 on: December 21, 2020, 07:49:43 AM

They aren't doing a spinoff, I think we all know what is coming Star Wars wise over the next few years. That doesn't mean they may go "Oh Shit" in 2022 when whatever the Mandalorian turns into shits the bed and bring the Child back.

Right now I think the plan is to move forward and tell some new stories.
Cyrrex
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Reply #717 on: December 21, 2020, 09:55:48 AM

They aren't doing a spinoff, I think we all know what is coming Star Wars wise over the next few years. That doesn't mean they may go "Oh Shit" in 2022 when whatever the Mandalorian turns into shits the bed and bring the Child back.

Right now I think the plan is to move forward and tell some new stories.

I kind of agree?  I think if they have season 3 plans that do not involve Grogu, they are already at pants shitting.  A huge part of their audience is all about the BY and won't give a shit for any part of this that doesn't involve him.

That said, no idea how they would bring him back in.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Abagadro
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Reply #718 on: December 21, 2020, 09:59:45 AM

Disney confirmed today that it is a new series.

https://twitter.com/starwars/status/1341013938570371072

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Velorath
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Reply #719 on: December 21, 2020, 10:11:06 AM

Also cleared up that season 3 is coming after Boba Fett so it sound like they aren't both going to be in December:

https://twitter.com/GMA/status/1341015301652180993
NowhereMan
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Reply #720 on: December 21, 2020, 10:22:44 AM

I can see them having a story plotted out following Din and his relationship to his people and how that fits into his own identity. Clearly he has built his identity around being a Mandalorian and this season has set him up to question whether the group he was part of were the totality of what being a Mandalorian is and whether the absolute values he was brought up with are really what define him. I think that's a story you can tell alongside Bo Katan trying to pull together a new Mandalore.

Of course that's a nice plan in theory but while Grogu might have played the plot role they wanted for him, there's no way Disney management are going to accept dropping him from the show. I'm hoping that doesn't mean rewriting anything major to keep him in but it's not very clear how they can keep BY around after that finale.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #721 on: December 21, 2020, 11:00:10 AM

The interesting thing here is Bo Katan was all up in Mando's shit for adhering so dogmatically to the old way, while she herself is doing the exact same thing with the Darksaber.  There is a ton of good stuff to explore there.

And while I will be glad to watch the Boba offshoot, I wish that did not mean a delay for this series.  Best TV in....forever.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Khaldun
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Reply #722 on: December 21, 2020, 12:02:52 PM

There's a million ways to bring Baby Yoda/Grogu back in. Number one is simply Mando getting himself in a very bad situation he can't get out of and Grogu going to the rescue a la Luke at Cloud City. Another is Mando needing to save Grogu and Luke from some hidden danger (like, a phantom menace of some kind) and when they meet up again, Luke says, "Grogu is as trained as he's gonna get--he wants to travel with you".

Or have Luke call Mando to say, "Look, I have to go off with Lando to try and find this planet of Ultimate Sith Evil, I need you to come fetch Grogu because he's not safe being left here at my Jedi base".
Draegan
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Reply #723 on: December 21, 2020, 12:34:36 PM

Pretty rad. I'm surprised.
Trippy
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Reply #724 on: December 21, 2020, 12:46:57 PM

I imagine they are setting up some sort of MCU-style Infinity Stones crossover plotline for all the post-RotJ series that will include Baby Yoda in some fashion but he won't be a regular character in any of them until possibly the finale series(es)*.

* yes i know that's not the proper plural form
Khaldun
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Reply #725 on: December 21, 2020, 01:56:49 PM

There's a couple of articles out there today confirming that the plan is for The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba Fett, the Rangers of the New Republic and Ahsoka to "culminate in a climactic story event", so yeah, they're going with the MCU plan.

At this point, every franchise studio that's tried to rush content out or has picked the first shiny person/thing they see to run the whole thing has seen that blown up in their faces...
NowhereMan
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Reply #726 on: December 22, 2020, 04:49:41 AM

I was about to point to Netflix and realised that's a perfect example of having a successful first series that turned into a mixed bag of different series that culminated in an utterly forgettable team up series.

So hopefully not like that.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Velorath
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Reply #727 on: December 22, 2020, 07:46:50 AM

Can't wait for the new shows to introduce Baby Chewbacca, Baby Greedo, Baby Wicket, and Baby Blue Twi'lek Jedi.
Abagadro
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Reply #728 on: December 22, 2020, 02:44:34 PM

Can't wait for the new shows to introduce Baby Chewbacca, Baby Greedo, Baby Wicket, and Baby Blue Twi'lek Jedi.

Baby Salacious B. Crumb or GTFO.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Setanta
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Reply #729 on: December 22, 2020, 05:07:15 PM

No thoughts on a baby Jar Jar?

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NowhereMan
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Reply #730 on: December 22, 2020, 06:01:35 PM

 Mob Mob Mob

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Velorath
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Reply #731 on: December 22, 2020, 06:12:53 PM

No thoughts on a baby Jar Jar?

If they got Taika to write it, then sure.
koro
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Reply #732 on: December 23, 2020, 09:52:52 PM

I don't think that was the intent because Filoni's Aristiocratic Mandalorians had specific but unexplained beef with the Fetts.

Afaik noone has written anything on what the beef is - and after the Boba Fett ninja monk episode it could be as simple as upper classes being sniffy about foundlings who have the temerity to become well known.

A lot of Mandalorians are dicks.

There's some pre-Disney EU stuff that goes into the reasons there would be beef with the Mandalorians-at-large and the Fetts (according to Open Seasons, Jango should have by rights been Mandalore), which was of course de-canonized during the Disney buyout, but then oddly kinda sorta re-canonized(??) when fans examined the chain code from Boba Fett's armor from the recent episode and saw mention of characters that only appeared in that Jango story.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #733 on: December 24, 2020, 03:04:42 AM


The difference makes sense if you watched Clone Wars and stuff. Mando's clan is Death Watch which are old school Mando extremists. Ironically, Bo Katan used to be one of them but left them eventually. The Dark Saber is a totally different situation. That's more about tradition. The closest thing I can think of is it's sort of like Excalibur in the Arthurian legends. Whoever wields it is the King/Queen. If Bo Katan just gets it handed to her, then other Mandos may say "You didn't earn it." I think the easiest out is just to say "I'll tell everyone you whipped my ass and took it from me" but I think that it's honor keeping that from happening.


I'd buy into this if the last time Bo got her hands on the darksabre, it hadn't been after Sabine Wren had won it honourable combat with Gar Saxon, then Sabine flat out gave the Darksabre to Bo to in front of all the other mandalorian nobles, with a speech about how Bo had proven she was the best leader by stopping Sabine killing all the bad guys with her patented Sabine Wren murder-o-matic machine.


If memory serves Sabine got it from a cave Maul had been living in. Her mother then gave it to Gar Saxon and Sabine fought him and got it back. I think it likely fell into a grey area when she handed it over to Bo Katan. But more importantly, at some point Bo lost it, probably to Gideon and now she has to "win" it back legit to get the Mandos to follow her again.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
NowhereMan
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Reply #734 on: December 24, 2020, 06:00:27 AM

Yeah but considering he is more than happy to yield you'd think that a pragmatic leader would be willing to take the win there. It's not a hard thing to rationalise and comes across as out of character considering how down she was on Din's own moral code. It might set the stage for some good introspection 'what is an important moral principle and what is dumb tradition' style character arc for the next season though.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
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