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Sky
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Reply #70 on: June 20, 2019, 09:33:35 AM

So you don't think a sudden 25% bump in manufacturing cost just before fulfillment would be an issue?

Interesting.

Hawkbit
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Reply #71 on: June 20, 2019, 10:23:37 AM

Dude lived in Australia. Boat might not even be in America yet.

Shit. I didn’t even think to check that. What a bummer I was hoping to play soon.
schild
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Reply #72 on: June 20, 2019, 10:40:52 AM

So you don't think a sudden 25% bump in manufacturing cost just before fulfillment would be an issue?

Interesting.

I've been helping a couple people out with their Kickstarters. The manufacturing price of boardgames is comically low. One of the ones I've been working with has hundreds of cards, tons of specially cut chits, more than THREE double-sided full-sized boards

total cost?

~$6.50.

The price jumping to $8 eats a bit away at their margin but doesn't really make much of a difference otherwise.

Edit: To be clear, sure, it's possible some places are planning like 10,000 unit print runs and using Kickstarter profit to do that. Those places are stupid and don't understand how to properly utilize Kickstarter.
Sky
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Reply #73 on: June 20, 2019, 01:09:39 PM

Ah, I see. Thanks for the infoes! Old farts can still learn stuff.

lamaros
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Reply #74 on: June 20, 2019, 06:51:16 PM

A ton of hubbub has been made about the 25% tariffs but i'm just not seeing it. Especially for majority card-based games. It's a 25% hike on manufacturing costs. Most of these games cost actual dollars to produce. It shouldn't effect Kickstarter pricing, but could snowball a little bit on the retail side.

Sounds to me like that small card game is being headed by lazy, greedfolk.

Um... that's like... not how things work man... margin is margin. If businesses could make things work on lower margins to begin with then they would be doing that already...

Expect poison from the standing water.
schild
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Reply #75 on: June 20, 2019, 07:59:25 PM

A ton of hubbub has been made about the 25% tariffs but i'm just not seeing it. Especially for majority card-based games. It's a 25% hike on manufacturing costs. Most of these games cost actual dollars to produce. It shouldn't effect Kickstarter pricing, but could snowball a little bit on the retail side.

Sounds to me like that small card game is being headed by lazy, greedfolk.

Um... that's like... not how things work man... margin is margin. If businesses could make things work on lower margins to begin with then they would be doing that already...
The vast majority of these companies aren't working under reasonable or sane business practices. They're doing a sort of rinse/wash cycle on Kickstarter abusing the fact China has cheap labor, but the price of games isn't exactly going down. They're cutting out the distributor margin and the retail margin on top of that to flip something that costs $5-$15 into something that costs $50-$100. Which is great, but that 25% its getting hit with on what is manufacturing cost (as the cost listed coming from China) ain't really moving the needle much if it's not going to have a traditional retail release.

And no, as a guy running a business pretty successfully the last six years, I will flat out tell you that you go for the absolute highest margin the market can bear.

Edit: Now, the fact most people lose money on Kickstarter is their own damn fault. But there's nothing "normal" / "how things work" about it.
lamaros
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Reply #76 on: June 20, 2019, 09:08:18 PM

We're using different words but saying the same thing.

If the manufacturing cost isn't significant, what is it? Shipping? Can't be artwork and advertising... (well it can be, they're idiots running these campaigns after all)

Expect poison from the standing water.
schild
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Reply #77 on: June 20, 2019, 09:11:24 PM

So one of the guys I'm helping out did all his shit correctly. He got every cost nailed down (from art to manufacturing to shipping to warehousing to split-shipping to backers, etc) before deciding his cost. But he's also not putting *anything* into retail channels. So if he charges $50 and prints what he needs, he's going to be pure profit on every unit provided he doesn't have too much shit left over besides replacements for fucked up things.

I'm not sure what a lot of these people are doing wrong, but somewhere shit is breaking down. And these tariffs shouldn't hurt NEARLY as much as people are claiming.

I think the big mistake Kickstarter folks make is doing more than the minimum run required, some sort of illusion of grandeur in terms of massive retail distribution. I'm not sure.
Hawkbit
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Reply #78 on: June 27, 2019, 12:31:54 AM

I just got tracking info in Terrors of London. Should be here Saturday.

Kinda wishing I had gone in on Altar Quest now, they unlocked a serious amount of extras.
schild
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Reply #79 on: June 27, 2019, 12:41:40 AM

I just got tracking info in Terrors of London. Should be here Saturday.

Kinda wishing I had gone in on Altar Quest now, they unlocked a serious amount of extras.
Altar Quest will almost assuredly have late pledges.
Goldenmean
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Reply #80 on: June 27, 2019, 02:52:07 AM

Altar Quest will almost assuredly have late pledges.

What he said. Their previous games have had this option. No reason they'd stop with the infrastructure already in place.
Hawkbit
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Reply #81 on: July 05, 2019, 02:13:27 PM

Terrors of London is decent so far. The box fell apart on me and I had to glue it back together. The box is cool though and is built like a book. The card stock is a bit thin and sleeving it really was the only option. Otherwise the product quality seems fair.

We both had a bit of trouble building decks big enough that horde action could be used more than a few times. The game seems over before a solid deck is built so that feels somewhat unsatisfying. I think I prefer this art and theme over Shards of Infinity. However I really prefer the mechanics of Shards.

ToL is decent though, no regrets.
schild
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Reply #82 on: July 05, 2019, 03:29:35 PM

the box is garbage, my bottom is just coming off. I'll probably get a custom box made by Game Crafter though which I've done with every other card-based game I have.

and yeah, Kolossal cheaps out about 20% too much on card stock

Haven't played yet.

Picking up a copy of Sol: Last Days of a Star tomorrow though
Hawkbit
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Reply #83 on: July 05, 2019, 05:05:32 PM

Let us know how Sol goes. I hadn’t heard of it until now and it looks so aesthetically pleasing. The graphic designer did good work.

Question about Omen: do you feel any of the stand alones function better than the base game? Or do you play with all expansions added? (I’m assuming you have them all)
schild
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Reply #84 on: July 05, 2019, 05:18:48 PM

So, I have EVERY card ever released for Omen. Hell, like six copies of every card. My final box is actually a cube built out of that. I feel like there's 3 reasonable ways to play:

1) The Base Game with nothing added
2) The Base Game with everything added
3) A defined mix with all the boring cards taken out

The former is John's original vision. The second is he ended up. The latter is a less tight more swingy mess of a game but it makes every decision super important.

I wouldn't recommend building a cube unless you're also the type to house rule life totals down 20 or 30 points in something like Dice Throne.
Ruvaldt
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Reply #85 on: July 05, 2019, 09:10:20 PM

It's sad to hear Kolossal's components haven't improved.  After my experience with Western Legends I've avoided almost everything they're making.  I did jump on Mezo because Clowdus and I love the theme; hoping that one is an improvement.

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
Sky
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Reply #86 on: July 19, 2019, 08:34:20 AM

So CMON is partering with some folks to make a hybrid physical/digital platform. Some good ideas in there, I doubt this iteration will stack up to much but I like the concept and hope it's enough to get more traction for this kind of thing. Multi-game platform, first game is a Zombicide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDBm3OzOSsA

Getting rid of card management, resolving rolls, adding interactive story elements...I think there's a lot of promise in the concept.

schild
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Reply #87 on: July 19, 2019, 12:16:58 PM

you can buy it and tell us how bad it is
schild
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Reply #88 on: July 19, 2019, 12:17:13 PM

It's sad to hear Kolossal's components haven't improved.  After my experience with Western Legends I've avoided almost everything they're making.  I did jump on Mezo because Clowdus and I love the theme; hoping that one is an improvement.

Clowdus seems to be done with Kolossal already so, lol
Hawkbit
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Reply #89 on: July 19, 2019, 12:27:44 PM

I think I heard rumblings of Kolossal being snagged by Asmodee. Not 100% sure on that.

Personally, the Mansions of Madness app thing is about as far into tech I want to bring my board games. Nothing wrong if you like this, the idea is neat. I like the feel of wood, paper and cardboard though.
schild
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Reply #90 on: July 19, 2019, 12:33:03 PM

Asmodee grabbing Kolossal would be a ridiculously bad purchase

so, sure, falls in line with their normal behavior
Falconeer
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Reply #91 on: July 19, 2019, 01:19:18 PM

Not sure about technology in board games where I am actually sitting at a table with friends. I mean, I am obsessed with Dark Tower, but that's because I was 8 years old and because it was "dark". This thing from Mr. Pong Nolan Bushnell is equally curious but probably uninteresting as a board game if you ask me.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/07/18/nolan-bushnell-reveals-alexa-powered-murder-mystery-board-game-st-noire/

Sky
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Reply #92 on: July 19, 2019, 01:36:06 PM

you can buy it and tell us how bad it is
I'll take things that will never happen for $100, Johnny

schild
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Reply #93 on: July 19, 2019, 01:40:19 PM

of course it won't, that's how everyone will approach it. People will buy it, but they are fools.

Getting rid of card management and such is getting rid of the board game. Let's all sit around the table and look at our phones is already a free game.
Hawkbit
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Reply #94 on: July 19, 2019, 01:42:37 PM

Not sure about technology in board games where I am actually sitting at a table with friends. I mean, I am obsessed with Dark Tower, but that's because I was 8 years old and because it was "dark". This thing from Mr. Pong Nolan Bushnell is equally curious but probably uninteresting as a board game if you ask me.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/07/18/nolan-bushnell-reveals-alexa-powered-murder-mystery-board-game-st-noire/

Anyone remember in the late 90s when you could sign up for a “game” that would text and fax you? It was like some Illuminati murder mystery or something. For some reason this reminded me of that.
schild
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Reply #95 on: July 19, 2019, 01:44:22 PM

Not sure about technology in board games where I am actually sitting at a table with friends. I mean, I am obsessed with Dark Tower, but that's because I was 8 years old and because it was "dark". This thing from Mr. Pong Nolan Bushnell is equally curious but probably uninteresting as a board game if you ask me.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/07/18/nolan-bushnell-reveals-alexa-powered-murder-mystery-board-game-st-noire/

Anyone remember in the late 90s when you could sign up for a “game” that would text and fax you? It was like some Illuminati murder mystery or something. For some reason this reminded me of that.

EA's Majestic. Basically my favorite thing ever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_(video_game)
Sky
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Reply #96 on: July 19, 2019, 03:07:15 PM

Getting rid of card management and such is getting rid of the board game.
I'll give you that one, to a point. But it depends on the game, we're not talking about card games, this looks focused on mini-based games. So for something like Zombicide, I'd say it's a decent feature.

But the dice resolution is pretty nice, especially if it's smart enough under the hood to do multiple types of rolls and tables (cough KDM), it would reduce some confusion and overhead if I could just roll the appropriate dice and have it spit out the results on a screen. I get the visceral dice rolling thing but also the benefit of video games doing the heavy lifting beyond that.

However, I think the interesting stuff is in the scenario engine. And maybe in offloading some of the AI stuff in games that have cumbersome mechanisms for co-op.

Hawkbit
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Reply #97 on: Today at 01:54:28 PM

Terrors of London is offering free sleeves: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kolossalmikro/terrors-of-london/posts/2570372?ref=bggforums

QC messed up, card quality isn't what it was supposed to be based on the KS.
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