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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - From Software 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - From Software  (Read 50646 times)
Falconeer
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Reply #245 on: April 16, 2019, 02:37:18 PM

Yes, I was terrified too Jeff but it took me 4 hours for the first fight, and ONE try for the second.

Ironwood
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Reply #246 on: April 16, 2019, 02:44:19 PM

That's cause it's easier.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #247 on: April 16, 2019, 03:19:47 PM

Easier. hmmm....

Probably in an arena twice the size.

Smaller arena, two enemies that never get farther than two feet apart from each other and that bum rush me into the wall until I’m dead.
Lock on is practically useless.

So far they never separated from each other and they usually pin me into a corner so that the camera gets all fucked up and I die because none of my moves work. Focus on one, get totally smashed by the other.

Won’t take me as long as the previous fight probably. It’s about as much fun though.
Ironwood
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Reply #248 on: April 16, 2019, 03:22:28 PM

Headless Ape moveset is exactly the same, so you know what shit he's up to and capable of.  You know also how to defeat his various flavours of bullshit.  So.  You can smack him up and pull out the beastie with the spear, or....

You can smack his bitch up.  Who's easier to kite when he's doing his headless scream and her posture doesn't go down hardly at all.  So you smack her the fuck up while he's prancing about like a dick and you finish him spearwise and parrying.

Once you do it, you'll wonder why you even cared, it's such a breeze.

Though maybe having to go through almost a DAY of that monkeys literal Bullshit just prepared me for it.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #249 on: April 16, 2019, 03:31:24 PM

That’s not it. Right now I can’t kite them. They both rush me. First phase is easy. Second phase I don’t get an opening. Because they are always close enough to each other so that the other can hit me while I try to kite and dodge one of them.

By the time I’ve separated them enough to get a hit in their postures have almost recovered. Worse when one hits me I get knocked down and then both just smack me into next Tuesday.

In the videos they’re always farther apart and take longer to get around. In me previous attempt they are literally right next to each other, always.
Falconeer
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Reply #250 on: April 16, 2019, 03:39:28 PM

Just run around until the big monkey does the scream. When it screams THEN they have to be separated cause the big one is not moving and the small one is chasing you away from the scream. Strategy is to beat up the small one first, which is very easy, and then focus on the big one.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #251 on: April 16, 2019, 03:47:57 PM

Ok, he was easier.
Edit: thank got for I frames. Deathblowed the one while the other did his scream
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 03:49:34 PM by Jeff Kelly »
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #252 on: April 16, 2019, 05:04:18 PM

I have to say I’m with Ironwood. Last three Bosses and I don’t know if I can be bothered. Game stopped being fun and feels like a chore now.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #253 on: April 17, 2019, 12:22:29 AM

Sorry for using this thread mainly to vent now
Ironwood
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Reply #254 on: April 17, 2019, 03:30:39 AM

I have officially given up.  I have no interest in beating sword saint and he's turned me off the rest of the game.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Falconeer
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Reply #255 on: April 17, 2019, 03:58:47 AM

You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #256 on: April 17, 2019, 04:35:45 AM

On the one hand I appreciate the memes and just how thoroughly that guy has been dunked on since writing this tweet, on the other I wish people wouldn't give stupid takes by morons so much free exposure.

Also Owl is a cheating bastard
Ironwood
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Reply #257 on: April 17, 2019, 10:16:04 AM

I found second owl easier too.  But that's probably because by that point you knew his moveset off the top of your head.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #258 on: April 17, 2019, 10:52:33 AM

I’m rapidly approaching the limits of my ability and patience with this game.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #259 on: April 17, 2019, 05:54:03 PM

OK so late game Ashina Castle is basically “what if we recycled a lot of the mini bosses but put them in small enclosed spaces so that they are an absolute pain in the ass to fight”
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #260 on: April 19, 2019, 03:38:06 PM

Owl is dead. Killed him after I had already spent all of my gourd, all of my pellets and two resurrections.
That had to add poison even after all the other shit he can do. Off to fountainhead.
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Reply #261 on: April 20, 2019, 03:11:26 AM

Criticism is fair but the reality is that this game is great and like all the other Froms is very addicting and keeps calling you back no matter the frustration until you down that boss. And downing a boss brings a form of bliss very few other games (any?) could ever ever deliver.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #262 on: April 20, 2019, 07:31:19 AM

Criticism is fair but the reality is that this game is great and like all the other Froms is very addicting and keeps calling you back no matter the frustration until you down that boss. And downing a boss brings a form of bliss very few other games (any?) could ever ever deliver.

Well, I’m sorry that I’m not as positive about the game as you but Im not feeling the bliss right now. I’m mostly pissed off and I’m playing this more out of spite than anything else. My main reaction after the last few bosses hasn’t been a feeling of achievement or the rush you feel after overcoming a tough challenge but mostly a mixture of pissed off anger and „well I’m glad I won’t have to do that ever again“.

Maybe it’s still a testament to From Software that I haven’t quit yet and that I’m stubbornly pushing on regardless. The amount of time I still spend on Sekiro content - either playing the game or watching/reading things about it - seems to indicate that I like something about the game or I’m already deep in Stockholm Syndrome territory.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #263 on: April 20, 2019, 07:50:37 AM

Owl phase two for example is not harder than phase one, he still has essentially the same moveset. Augmented with a lot more bullshit like covering the whole floor with poison you can’t cure because there’s no window where he lets off attacking you, or smoke bombs that remove lock on or insta gib firecrackers or posture recovery.

That’s challenge but the kind of challenge that just pissed me off royally because it’s cheap. Which is fitting for a Shinobi Boss in a twisted way but doesn’t make the fight any more fun. You only have few windows to heal in fights anyway because bosses are just relentlessly attacking and an area of effect poison ability in an enclosed space is just mean spirited, as is an ability that removes lock on, stuns and fucks with your camera. In a game where the windows to react are tight and you are always only one or two hits away from death. It’s fun when the camera resets you now have your back turned to the boss and then get almost instant killed.

That’s not tough, that’s not difficult, that’s just bullshit.

Firecrackers into posture break and knockdown and stun into jump with coup de grace stab into the chest in an arena that by this time in the fight is mostly covered in poison. That is one attack you didn’t evade in a ten minute fight and you’re dead. From a full health bar.

I wasn’t feeling any bliss after that fight in truth I was mostly hurling expletives at my TV and From Software in general.

Then the very next area you go to starts off with the next 3 phase boss that is also just a recycled boss from earlier in the game. No down time, no time to recharge or cool off or to get you in a different mindset. just bam, bam, bam, boss after boss after boss.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #264 on: April 23, 2019, 01:54:56 PM

On which platform are you guys playing this btw?

Had the chance to play this on PC and it is much easier to deflect attacks and in general react than it is on my PS4 pro.
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Reply #265 on: April 23, 2019, 02:27:22 PM

PC fpr me. In my experience, From Software games are better on PC -since Dark Souls 2- if nothing else for the shorter loading time. That helps in a game where I died and went back to the loading screen about 2189842 times.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #266 on: April 23, 2019, 02:48:54 PM

According to Digital Foundry and the ResetEra OT for Sekiro the console versions have additional input lag over the PC version.

The XBox One X version is allegedly the worst (figures, the XBox has worse input lag in general) and the PC has the best with the PS 4 in between.

This confirms one of my long held suspicions in that I always need to parry “earlier” than I would intuitively parry as if I have to “lead” the parry a little. If I parry when I think I should I always get hit on the PS 4 version, which means that I have to memorize the attack patterns completely because react parry never works.

I tried it on the PC version today and if I parry when I think I should I don’t get hit and “sight reading” enemies sort of works better than on my console.

Also if I’m not imagining things the patch has actually made things worse. I’ve missed so many inputs today and generally had a pretty bad time with the two Owl memory mini bosses and the trek through Hirata Estate. I even had a few hiccups and hangs.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #267 on: April 23, 2019, 02:55:53 PM

Quote from the thread

“The problem is not that parries are super generous, its that there's a sizable input lag between hitting L1 and your character actually blocking, at least on console. You can easily test this by rapidly tapping L1 or binding it to turbo function on modded controller. Sekiro will do about 4.3 blocks per second no matter how fast you tap it. That's about 230 ms or 12-13 frames of latency, which is massive for a game that's built around parrying. Now they must have done it to discourage people from parry-dancing, but it still punishes people who have the reflexes to pull off reactive parries. Instead you have to sorta 'lead' the block by few frames to do parries. If you wait until the sword is 4 feet from your face before hitting block like the game tells you to, you are going to get smacked in the face.

I dunno how much of a problem it is on PC, but in the DF PC video, the first thing he says is how easy it is to parry compared to console where he had to anticipate and lead his blocks.”
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Reply #268 on: April 23, 2019, 03:49:12 PM

Not sure if it would make a difference for me. I don't do the parry based on my eyes, I do the parry based on when the game taught me to do the parry. If you know what I mean.
Since we are talking about frames, which are seriously hard to perceive for all humans let alone a 45 yo one, I don't exactly do things based on what I see when I see it, I doubt my reflexes and my eye.hand coordination would be able to keep up. I am under the impression that my fingers react exactly to the patterns I have learnt by playing and by dying over and over. Since I am on PC I react at a specific point during an enemy attack. If I were on PS4 I would react a slightly different time, whatever it is that my muscles have recorded as "safe" as opposed to "hurt".

The bottom line is that I am sure it matters for people with incredible reflexes, but overall I am tempted to state that the majority of players don't exactly learn the timing of games (when it comes to incredible small amounts of timing aka frames) based on what they really see and can do in a single frame, but instead through pattern recognition. In a sense I felt that the game trained my fingers before it trained my eyes, and with a different frame lag I would have simply learnt slightly different reaction patterns from the get go.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #269 on: April 25, 2019, 07:13:05 AM

Restarted my playthrough on PC. Yes, I know I’m mad.

The PC version is leaps and bounds better than the console version, it feels better, it looks better (obviously), it controls much better. I can now actually reliably deflect and Mikiri counter. Seven spears was almost a joke, I murdered every mini boss between the dilapidated temple and Genichiro, Gyoubu first try, Bull wasn’t a problem because I can now actually parry him.

Only ogre was still a bitch.

I’m now at Lady Butterfly and Genichiro, have 10 prayer beads already and it took me less than five hours.

60 FPS and the lower input latency make so much of a difference.
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Reply #270 on: April 25, 2019, 12:38:12 PM

The world finally opened up a bit but it still feels linear and way too much about defeating bosses than exploring a world. I don't get the sort of satisfaction I used to get because the moment you kill one the next one is five minutes away and have to learn that dudes move set. In some way its the feeling of another dude in armor that dark souls 2 gave me. Don't get me wrong, its a well designed game with solid fighting mechanics but I miss the old fun I used to have with these titles.

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Reply #271 on: April 25, 2019, 11:21:57 PM

Restarted my playthrough on PC. Yes, I know I’m mad.

The PC version is leaps and bounds better than the console version, it feels better, it looks better (obviously), it controls much better. I can now actually reliably deflect and Mikiri counter. Seven spears was almost a joke, I murdered every mini boss between the dilapidated temple and Genichiro, Gyoubu first try, Bull wasn’t a problem because I can now actually parry him.

Only ogre was still a bitch.

I’m now at Lady Butterfly and Genichiro, have 10 prayer beads already and it took me less than five hours.

60 FPS and the lower input latency make so much of a difference.

Huh, interesting.  You are playing with a controller on the PC I assume, right?

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #272 on: April 26, 2019, 08:47:23 AM

I use an XBox One Elite controller in conjunction with the wireless dongle from Microsoft. Works fine. Haven’t used a PS 4 controller yet.

I haven’t had time to play any further because I’m down sick and Picross is better suited for my enfeebled mind right now.

I might suffer from confirmation bias so take everything I say with a grain of salt but on the PS 4 Pro I had to memorize most of the attack patterns to reliably deflect them, on the PC I can react to some of them and still hit the input window that’s probably why Mikiri Counter now works.

You definitely can do more inputs/s though than on console so being aggressive pays off more.

I still play the  game on my 4K Sony TV@1080p (HDR makes a lot of difference) and probably due to the higher graphical fidelity and twice the FPS (locked 60 FPS on PC vs unlocked 30 on Pro) I now notice the cues much better (the flashing of the enemy blades when they do a perilous attack and the sparks for deflects)
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Reply #273 on: April 26, 2019, 09:42:34 AM

I didn't know it was 30 fps on Playstation. Fuck that. I mean, 30 fps are totally fine to play games, but not when you can have 60. We all know that they truly feel different.

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Reply #274 on: April 26, 2019, 12:06:25 PM

I didn't know it was 30 fps on Playstation. Fuck that. I mean, 30 fps are totally fine to play games, but not when you can have 60. We all know that they truly feel different.
Playing on ps4 since I haven't upgraded my gpu.....no wonder it feels like some stuff ends up more difficult than it should

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Reply #275 on: April 26, 2019, 03:50:53 PM

Base XBox One: locked 30@900p
Base PS 4: locked 30@1080p
XBox One X uncapped@1800p (3200x1800)
PS 4 Pro game uncapped@1800p (3200x1800)
PC: locked 60@1080p up to locked 60@4K with mods.

Both uncapped console versions are “very inconsistent” according to Digital Foundry and average frame rates are in the “high thirties to low forties with frequent judder.
Both capped console versions frequently dip below 30 FPS and feature stutter and judder. The DF video compares it performance wise to Bloodborne or Dark Souls 3 which have been bad as well.

PC has completely stable 60 FPS even on low end cards like GTX1060 or RTX560

In addition PC version also has the lowest input lag compared to PS4 and XBox
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