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Author Topic: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - From Software  (Read 6847 times)
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #210 on: April 13, 2019, 09:27:26 PM

The monk strat is stupid. She basically stands there until she gets an in air deathblow
Falconeer
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Reply #211 on: April 14, 2019, 02:31:43 AM

I understand the technical criticism, but does it really matter? I mean, could you find those strategies yourself or did you see them in some youtube video? Personally, I did not watch anything and I couldn't find any cheesy strat for any boss. *Had to* to them the hard long way and the final one is the only one that could finally make me looo for some help.

My point is that easy strats for bosses always existed in the other From games too and maybe they weren't so much a matter of bad programming like in this case, but I tend to think that without resorting to some internet scavenging those technical shortcomings are irrelevant and hard to find.

Ironwood
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Reply #212 on: April 14, 2019, 04:24:26 AM

You can't have it both ways though ;  you can't have this 'uber hard' game and then have that difficulty trivialised. 

The game basically IS the difficult and engaging combat.  And now you can see that it's smoke and mirrors.  At least two of these strats are not hard to find for anyone and one of the others I found myself to my amusement.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #213 on: April 14, 2019, 05:56:14 AM

Got the corrupted monk
Falconeer
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Reply #214 on: April 14, 2019, 09:21:58 AM

Still stuck at the final boss Ironwood? What's your attack power? Mine is 15 and I am tempted to grind that up some more cause I feel so terribly weak.

Ironwood
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Reply #215 on: April 14, 2019, 09:53:48 AM

12, I think ?  If you're talking about grinding skill points for 4 for 1 then I can honestly say ;  fuck that.   why so serious?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Falconeer
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Reply #216 on: April 14, 2019, 10:57:33 AM

That's how I reached 15 from 12. I decided at some point that I did not care for new skills anymore and put those points into attack. It's 5 for 1 as far as I know. It's not really helping me so far (although I feel I am close, brought the big boss to its final stage and half HP there).

What about Vitality? I have 18 and I won't' be seeking those last two points until (if ever) I'm done with the final boss.

Ironwood
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Reply #217 on: April 14, 2019, 11:42:35 AM

I have the full 20.  It's about technique more than anything else and I'm old.  I'll get to it.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #218 on: April 14, 2019, 12:20:52 PM

Given that you beat most of the bosses both of you should be much higher than 12 or 14. each memory gives you 1 ap and Iím already at 14 even though Iíve yet to beat the ape
Ironwood
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Reply #219 on: April 14, 2019, 01:01:57 PM

Nope, just checked :  20 Vit and 12 AP.

I think you're either getting confused, or actually, I don't know what the fuck.  I've beat all the bosses save the last two.

Please let me know what I've missed.


"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #220 on: April 14, 2019, 01:25:46 PM

You should get 1 vitality for every prayer bead necklace (every 4 prayer beads) so youíll end up with 20 vitality because there are 40 beads total to get. (Option: enhance physical attributes on the sculptorís idol menu). Thatís 200% vitality. You only get them once, they donít reappear on subsequent NG+ playthroughs.

You should get 1 attack power for every memory you get from a boss. There are 14 memories you can obtain from bosses not all of them in the same run. (Option: enhance attack power). The cap for AP is 99. https://sekiroshadowsdietwice.wiki.fextralife.com/Memory

I beat Lady Butterfly, Gyoubu,  Genichiro, Folding Screen Monkeys and Corrupted Monk thatís why I have 15 AP

You both should have more because you beat more bosses than me.

You have to ďtrade them inĒ at the sculptorís idol though
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #221 on: April 14, 2019, 01:27:49 PM

You can see your current stats on the bottom of the inventory screen
Ironwood
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Reply #222 on: April 14, 2019, 01:33:42 PM

I know all that.  I've done all that. 

However, is your math off or some shit ?

I have beat 11 bosses.  I have 12 AP.

If you've beat 5 bosses, you should have 6.  What the fuck ?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #223 on: April 14, 2019, 01:40:23 PM

I thought you started at 10 for both stats. You only start at 10 vitality though. So ignore my previous comments  embarassed
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #224 on: April 14, 2019, 03:00:26 PM

AP soft caps at around 14
Falconeer
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Reply #225 on: April 14, 2019, 03:02:56 PM

I was going to say that. Attack Power starts at 1, unlike Vitality. No way in hell you can have 15 AP halfway through the game. More like 5. I have 15 cause I ground 3 extra AP through an item you only get right before the end.

Anyway, I am timing myself with a stopwatch. I am 8 hours into the Final Boss attempts. Still no luck. I would be happy if I could kill it within ten hours of trying, but I am not sure. I have reached the final stage about ten times now (out of hundreds of attempts), and one time I was close to end it but failed. As Ironwood said it's all technique, precision in execution, timing, etc. That's why it's taking me so long, it takes me longer than the average person to learn the pattern, have my brain react flawlessly to the visual cue, and even more time to communicate the data to my fingers, which don't always perform as sharply as they should. I won't be surprised when I'll hear my friends say "Oh yes it took me a long time! Like 1 hour". Ugh.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #226 on: April 14, 2019, 03:25:33 PM

Going by achievement completion percentages youíll be well above average if you beat that fight.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #227 on: April 14, 2019, 04:42:01 PM

About that ape  Head scratch Argh!
I mean how? Heís running around like heís on speed and is hammering me into the ground with his huge arms, when heís not literally shitting on me.

Never get a hit in even I use fire

Edit: problem is that deflecting/blocking will knock me away so Iím always too far away to attack.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 04:44:24 PM by Jeff Kelly »
Falconeer
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Reply #228 on: April 14, 2019, 05:02:17 PM

The Ape took me four hours I believe. As usual, until your brain starts to recognize the patterns at a glance you won't beat it. To me the key is a skill called Ichimonji. I knew which attacks to avoid (almost all) and which ones I could afford to deflect to put a hit or two in before running away again. The attacks that leave the ape a bit open are the ones where it rolls on the ground left and right. When you see that one, you go in, deflect both the ridiculous motions and then slam the ape with ichimonji wich almost completely reset your posture and damage the enemy's a lot. Another attack that is easy to exploit is the fart one. When it turns around and before the ape farts you can put a hit or two in. Another good chance is when the ape does that 40 yards jump. Use sprint and get behind. I know this stuff seems obvious but that's how I did it. What was seriouslly tough was phase two. Which... I can't even remember how I did it. I think you want to try and stay behind the ape as much as you can, and use its weakest attacks to punish it. When it lunges forward falling flat on the ground for example, great chance. In phase two it's also immune to firecrackers, so forget about it. Honestly, it's once again all about realizing what's going to happen and react to it in a split second. Almost every attack has a safe spot, a single tile on the floor where you are safe. I know you know it, but that's how the Guardian Ape works. In phase two it's harder to read what the ape is doing, so I am gonna tell you: when it goes berserk slamming things in all directions, it's "kind of" safe to circle it by going left, not right. A lot of time you are safer between its legs.

Anyway, some things you can deflect, some things you should just try to dodge and time the minuscule number of i frames of your dodge. But when your posture is in the danger zone, that's where Ichimonji saved the day for me (with that boss, and all the other ones too). It's my personal cheese.

Sorry, I know this is probably not helpful. I am sure there are better guides everywhere and youtube videos that make it look trivial. This was my take on it, I realized (after 80 tries?) which attacks had a tiny safe window and where, and which ones did not and I just had to run. Sure this game is about precision, reaction and all that, but there' definitely a phase which I would call "intel gathering" where execution doesn't matter cause you simply cannot win against bosses until you learn the weak spot of every single one of their attacks.

EDIT: English.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 06:02:54 PM by Falconeer »

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #229 on: April 14, 2019, 05:14:48 PM

The problem with guides is that they donít help when you donít have a good grip on the fight. Because while they explain what you should do they canít help you actually do it.

Iíve watched a few and they always make the fight look easy. Hard part is doing it myself
Ironwood
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Reply #230 on: April 14, 2019, 05:33:28 PM

The best guides show you the moves that you're already kind of familiar with after getting the fuck kicked out of you.  It's about learning the rhythm and it helps when the guide says block, block, dodge, punish and you can try and internalise it before the fight.  The guides I watched on the Monkey fights really, really helped me out since I KNEW what was kicking fuck out of me, but not quite HOW.


"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Falconeer
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Reply #231 on: April 14, 2019, 05:38:45 PM

I did it.

11 hours and 46 minutes.

I am exhausted. I am probably never gonna play this game again in my life. But it was awesome.

Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #232 on: April 14, 2019, 06:32:55 PM

Congratulations mate!
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #233 on: April 15, 2019, 05:32:57 AM

For people who like me struggle with accidentally pressing the stick in difficult fights, you can unbind crouch without the need to assign it to a different button. I basically unbind crouch from L3 if I do a boss or miniboss now if it's not needed (for a stealth deathblow for example)

I simply can't hold the controller so that I don't accidentally press L3 (I've tried a lot) and this tweak means I never accidentally crouch and fuck up my movement/attack while trying to stay alive.
Cyrrex
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Reply #234 on: April 15, 2019, 05:51:35 AM

Smart thinking.  Not sure if I have that problem in this game, but I think there is another game where it gives me fits.  Breath of the Wild, I think.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #235 on: April 15, 2019, 06:00:21 AM

Binding of Isaac added a "reset run" option to the console versions in the latest patch (it's the "r" key on PC). You have to press both L3 and R3 and you can't rebind the command or deactivate it. I've probably reset a few dozen runs by accident that way. One time literally 10 seconds before I would have completed one of the hardest achievements in the game. You could say I was not amused.
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #236 on: April 15, 2019, 06:58:24 AM

So apparently the platinum trophy/achievement requires at least one if not two NG+(+) playthroughs. You can cheese it a little because you can get 3/4 endings by copying save files but you need all boss kills on the same save file for the platinum and that's not possible in a single playthrough.
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Reply #237 on: April 15, 2019, 07:08:06 AM

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHA

More seriously, why? Or also: not happening. As soon as I was done with my playthrough I went to watch all the other three endings on Youtube and I was very happy like that. Do people care about achievements that much?

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #238 on: April 15, 2019, 07:37:28 AM

Games that offer NG+ apparently need a justification for why you should play NG+. I can't think of a better reason, actually.

Getting all achivements would be hard on a single NG anyway because you'll need to get all skills and all prosthetic upgrades which will turn into an absolute grindfest given the XP progression. The all gourd and all prayer beads achivement additionally locks you into a specific ending because you need the
In Bloodborne it was the chalice dungeon achivement which required additional NG+ attempts because not all items necessary to create all chalice dungeons could drop on a single playthrough.
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #239 on: April 16, 2019, 06:04:22 AM

I'm now 50 hours in, I've revisited most of the areas to pick up items and explore the waterways with my new skill I picked up after the corrupted monk. I killed a few mini bosses, failed hard at one or two headless (instant kill due to terror is absolute bullshit, the fight is hard enough already) and I'm still stuck at the Guardian Ape.

The game is a lot of fun when they design the fights so that they fit the Sekiro combat system. Genichiro Ashina is probably the best all around fight in the game so far, The Centipede Mini Bosses test your deflect timing, Seven Spears needs counters. Corrupted Monk rewards execution or cleverness (prosthetics use vs. blocking, deflecting). Lady Butterfly is loads of fun, Gyoubu's charge attacks let you experiment with loads of different tactics. The game is decidedly less fun when they screw with you by taking away some of your tools/moves or if they put a Dark Souls/Bloodborne style boss in where you're more dodging and chipping away at their health bar. Chained Ogre with his dodge heavy wrestling moves, Flaming Bull,  (which is basically a Bloodborne Boss who doesn't fit the Sekiro combat style at all) or the headless with the slowing mist, teleport and terror attacks. The first half was much more interesting than the second half but that is an issue all From Software games share. There's also entirely too much reuse of (mini-)bosses and regular enemies. I don't really need to fight the drunkard three times or the same headless multiple times.

Guardian Ape is annoying as fuck and absolutely no fun to fight. The best strategy seems to be to dodge everything and get a few hits in when he does one of the attacks where he needs to recover. My best attempt was when I treated it like a dark souls boss basically dodging everything, running in hitting him once or twice and then running away. Which means that the fight takes ages. Also dodging is not effective because all enemy attacks track you. This makes a lot of sense because you don't need to worry about positioning for your deflects and parries and it makes the combat smoother, as long as it is centered on sword combat. It's bad though when you need to dodge because enemies make ridiculous mid attack corrections to track you. Ape's flying overhead grab for example. It's fun to evade it only to see him change direction 90 degrees while in the air and still hit you, then insta-kill you.

Then there's the weird difficulty spikes. There are regular enemies that are decidedly more difficult than most mini bosses or bosses. The two grey double sword wielding monkeys in the poisonous swamp prior to the Ape fight, the purple interior ministry ninjas, the knife wielding Mibu village grandmas who take out a whole healthbar if you miss one dodge, those fucking black dudes with Ichimonij. The pacing constantly switches between "a little bit too easy" and "repeatedly hitting a brick wall for five hours"

Right now I'm not sure I'll ever finish the game, not because I think I couldn't but because it stopped being fun a few hours ago. I've basically done everything I could at this stage in the game and have run out of options except banging my head against the Ape until I kill it. The fight is not nearly fun enough to spend hours on completing it though.
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #240 on: April 16, 2019, 06:13:50 AM

For me hard games like the ones From Soft makes need to pose interesting and fun challenges. No one except the most masochistic gamer will fight a single boss for hours if the challenge isn't interesting or fun. Bloodborne can be excruciatingly hard at times but most of the bosses and areas are a lot of fun, even after you have repeated them dozens of times. I didn't mind retrying Genichiro for a few hours, I didn't mind retrying Lady Butterfly, I probably spent a whole day on Queelag in Dark Souls and probably two on Artorias the Abysswalker.

There were already too many bosses in Sekiro though where my reaction was "this is not fun but I'll probably have to do this for the next few hours anyway"
Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #241 on: April 16, 2019, 04:04:25 PM

Fucker is down. Took me five hours. Now my hands hurt
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Reply #242 on: April 16, 2019, 04:06:51 PM

I know the feeling. And especially Guardian Ape took me about that much.

Jeff Kelly
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I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #243 on: April 16, 2019, 04:29:12 PM

They seriously make you
Ironwood
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Reply #244 on: April 16, 2019, 04:34:32 PM

It's easier.  Tons easier.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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