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Author Topic: FIFA World Cup - Russia 2018  (Read 2727 times)
calapine
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Reply #140 on: July 11, 2018, 03:56:23 PM

Wow. what a match.

As soon as a competent and experienced team put on the pressure England fell completely apart.


Eh, they didn't look bad. Could have gone either way.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 03:59:49 PM by calapine »

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01101010
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Reply #141 on: July 11, 2018, 04:06:15 PM

England and Belgium for yet another throw away game.  awesome, for real

I hope it is just Kane and Lukaku just taking shots while the rest of their teams watch on the side.

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #142 on: July 11, 2018, 04:11:26 PM

Wow. what a match.

As soon as a competent and experienced team put on the pressure England fell completely apart.


Eh, they didn't look bad. Could have gone either way.

First half I agree, once Sterling left they were out of ideas though.  They didnít have a single serious attempt at a goal beyond the 65th minute.

You could see it getting to them.

Young team. Experience beat them today. Four years from now itíll probably be a different story
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Reply #143 on: July 11, 2018, 04:19:55 PM

Croatia are impressive though, definite contenders.

Called it  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Reply #144 on: July 11, 2018, 05:29:23 PM

A blind kid at the local radio station said Croatia too. :)

England definitely took their foot off the gas in the second half.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 05:33:12 PM by Sir T »

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Reply #145 on: July 11, 2018, 07:40:20 PM

England was exhausted. Their only real chance in the 2nd half/extra time was some long ball up the pitch for Kane, who was ineffective all game long.

France are gonna bum Croatia. Like 3-0.

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Reply #146 on: July 11, 2018, 08:01:25 PM

I would have liked a France-England final just to see France beat them across the pitch. The anguished tears on the UK channels would have been glorious. As it was they were practically throwing themselves off a cliff on the ITV Channel.  why so serious?

Ah well, we will get to see Belgium murdering them on Saturday.

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Reply #147 on: July 11, 2018, 08:31:45 PM

England was exhausted. Their only real chance in the 2nd half/extra time was some long ball up the pitch for Kane, who was ineffective all game long.

France are gonna bum Croatia. Like 3-0.

France looked good during Euro 2016.  I thought they might go all the way this time.
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Reply #148 on: July 11, 2018, 11:13:57 PM

England got way too many of their goals on set pieces, which told you that their attack wasn't doing much in open play. Alli seemed mostly useless and wasteful all tourney, as was Lingard, Sterling was Sterling (meaning he was fast as hell but with horrible shooting or crossing) and I still can't figure out why Kyle Walker was used as a center back in a 3-man defense as opposed to a wingback. I still don't see what the fuss is about Stones either - he has good ball skills but his defensive attention span is practically nil. Trippier looks good from the dead ball and dead from the live one. Ashley Young is not a better choice at LB over Danny Rose. I'm not necessarily saying there were better options, mind you, but England lucked their way into the semis.

As for Belgium and Fellaini, I think he was a better choice than Weitsel, who has looked completely out of his depth all tournament.

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Reply #149 on: July 12, 2018, 03:28:15 AM

It's not going to happen but Croatia winning the Worldcup would be awesome.

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Reply #150 on: July 12, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

I want Croatia to win just because they beat Russia and players taunted them with pro-Ukrainian slogans afterwards.     awesome, for real

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Amarr HM
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Reply #151 on: July 12, 2018, 06:49:30 AM

A blind kid at the local radio station said Croatia too. :)

You really should give him a regular slot.

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Reply #152 on: July 13, 2018, 06:13:54 AM

BTW because only Reddit seemed to have noticed.

England tried to kick-off and score while Croatia were still celebrating the 2:1.

Apart from the cuntiness and lack of sportsmanship it's funny for several reasons

1. It's impossible because the rules of the game don't allow this. (e.g. opposing team needs to be in their own half during kick off)
2. England should know that it won't work because of the Panama game
3. Panama tried the same "strategy" during the England vs. Panama game and got mercilessly mocked by the English press and team because of the stupidity

and finally: England managed to still make the resulting "goal" be offside if it were allowed.
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Reply #153 on: July 13, 2018, 06:26:57 AM

Fake alternative facts!!

 why so serious?

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01101010
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Reply #154 on: July 15, 2018, 11:58:22 AM

 DRILLING AND MANLINESS DRILLING AND WOMANLINESS DRILLING AND MANLINESS DRILLING AND WOMANLINESS


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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #155 on: July 15, 2018, 01:00:49 PM

Two problematic Ref/Var decisions gave France two goals.

Griezmannís Flop led to the free kick. The handball decision gave them the penalty.

 Colored perception of the final and made it a more negative spin that it should have been
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Reply #156 on: July 15, 2018, 01:09:23 PM

I disagree. The Griezman thing was a bit of a flop in that he pretty much invited the contact but I still see a foul there. The handball decision though was absolutely right in my opinion. While the player didn't really know much about it, his hand did move towards the ball (whether by accident or not) and it's something I could easily see the ref having missed in real time. The benefit of the replay is that he got to see it again at full speed from a different angle, and he got it right.

I think it was a great game to watch personally and I didn't really have a cheering interest in either time other than to see good players playing well. Kylian Mbappe is just goddamn amazing.

01101010
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Reply #157 on: July 15, 2018, 01:10:09 PM

Two problematic Ref/Var decisions gave France two goals.

Griezmannís Flop led to the free kick. The handball decision gave them the penalty.

 Colored perception of the final and made it a more negative spin that it should have been

That handball was the right call, so not that problematic when that is the reason for VAR.

As for the flop, *shrug* maybe, but it was convincing enough.

edit: Kante getting a yellow was a bit much for me at the beginning.

And I am on a streak of 2 Cups calling the winner.  awesome, for real

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Reply #158 on: July 15, 2018, 01:11:43 PM

The N'Golo Kante yellow card was extremely ridiculous.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #159 on: July 15, 2018, 03:25:59 PM

Two reasons why I have issues with the handball rule and how it is applied.

- what constitutes handball is not clearly defined and this leads to all kinds of confusion.  VAR will only make it worse.
- at a certain point we're penalizing a defensive reflex designed to protect vital areas like the head from injury and it's not even been discussed if that should even be penalized in the first place

Handball being somewhat of a gray area would be less of a problem if a handball call wasn't such a huge - possibly game changing - deal. If the consequences are minor, then it's not that much of a big deal if a rule can't be clearly applied to every situation or is somewhat murky. That's why I'm less angry about that free kick and how it came about. A free kick usually amounts to nothing and I can't blame France for Mandzukic heading it in.

A handball is a mandatory yellow or even red card though and leads to a penalty if it happens in the box. It could lead to a team being one man down or one goal down or both and in a game where scores are usually low and a 0:0 is a pretty likely outcome this is a big deal. The rule and the application of the rule should be absolutely crystal clear and evenly applied in that case because it could be a match deciding decision. Additionally the broad implementation of VAR will lead to many more reviews of potential handball situations leading to many more potentially game-deciding devisions in the future. So VAR and unevenly applied rules will decide games.

Also at a certain point we're penalizing a defensive reflex designed to protect vital areas like the head from injury. A soccer ball can get up to a speed of 120 km/h or 75m/h for a serious goal attempt and the penalty area only extends 18 yards to each side of the goal and 18 yards in front of it. I once got such a ball directly on my left eye and was blind for two weeks because a whole slew of blood vessels in my eye burst and was lucky that I got away without any lasting injuries. We're asking players to untrain an unconscious reflex designed to prevent serious injuries and to potentially "react" or better don't react in a fraction of a second.

According to the rules of the game it's a handball if "any player except the goal keeper inside the penalty area deliberately handles the ball when in play" and that a hand ball should not be awarded when a player "is ruled to have handled the ball accidentally".

Both terms are not clearly defined and the current guidance for referees is that it should be a "hand or arm motion that is untypical for sooccer".

TL;DR: I'm not okay with a potential game deciding decicion being so badly defined, implemented and applied, when VAR will lead to many more calls and reviews of that particular offense.
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Reply #160 on: July 15, 2018, 03:42:24 PM

I hear what you are saying and can agree with most of it, but not in the case of this past match. It was clearly a handball and his hand was not even close to being a part of his torso or thigh. Might not have been any intent and I certainly do not think he meant to get his hand in the way - so incidental. It should be handled differently than say an intentional sticking your arm out to impede the ball moving, but as it is now it was a cut and dry handball in the box.

Who knew soccer would have its very own catch-rule.

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Reply #161 on: July 15, 2018, 04:00:44 PM

It was an accidental handball which is probably why he did not receive a yellow card for it. I don't have a problem with accidental handballs being called as penalties or fouls - sometimes it is just not possible to NOT handle the ball, but just saying "if it touches your hand, it's a handball" is too harsh. Leaving it up to the refs discretion is also fine, IMO, and while I agree the definition could be a little more defined, having VAR means that anywhere from 1-4 refs including the ref get to weigh in on the decision after reviewing evidence. That they still came out with a handball in that case seems like the right call.

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Reply #162 on: July 15, 2018, 04:42:48 PM

VAR can only mark things for review, itís still the Ref on the pitch who makes the call.
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Reply #163 on: July 15, 2018, 06:06:59 PM

The free kick was a bogus call but its a miss a human will make and it is only a problem because it resulted in a goal.

The PK was truly unfair in terms of the flow of the game but it was the correct call. Hand in unnatural position, moving towards the ball, diverting it from going on frame. Its a PK for me for sure.

I'm glad it was France but I'm sad for Croatia they worked so hard and it was their only shot for probably 16+ years.

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Reply #164 on: July 15, 2018, 07:24:56 PM

At least it was a competitive game. The score flattered France because Croatia really did dominate the game, they just couldn't get their shots to go in.

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Reply #165 on: July 15, 2018, 07:54:59 PM

At least it was a competitive game. The score flattered France because Croatia really did dominate the game, they just couldn't get their shots to go in.

Yeah seriously. Croatia had time of possession, shots, passes, and corners in their favor but just couldn't connect save for that stellar shot Perisic buried. But if you take out all the goals that you could raise a question about, Lloris's mental fuck up, the handball, and Griezman's free kick off Mandzukic's head then France still wins 2-1. I'm just glad Pogba got a nice goal this tournament - he was doing a lot of behind the scenes work the entire tourney (though a lot of his passes today came off as lazy/uninspired).

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Reply #166 on: July 15, 2018, 09:00:04 PM

At least it was a competitive game. The score flattered France because Croatia really did dominate the game, they just couldn't get their shots to go in.

They dominated the first half. France defended deeper in the second and Coratia didn't have much of a shout, and got punished badly.

Of course being 2-1 up/down at half time kind of meant that that second half was likely to play out that way, but France still ended it.

No surprise to see Jeff complaining about decisions in line with his bias...

The penalty was tight, and France got it having done nothing to deserve it, but it was not a bullshit call.

The free kick was not a free kick, but that happens. Not every free kick leads to a goal, so you can't complain that it was a game changing bad mistake - it was just an unlucky own goal.

Croatia were unlucky in the first half and played very well, but France rolled them in the second and could have ended it 5-1 if it wasn't for some silly mistakes on their part. They deserved the win.

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Reply #167 on: July 16, 2018, 05:18:28 AM

They dominated the first half. France defended deeper in the second and Coratia didn't have much of a shout, and got punished badly.

Of course being 2-1 up/down at half time kind of meant that that second half was likely to play out that way, but France still ended it.

No surprise to see Jeff complaining about decisions in line with his bias...

Look I know that my opinion is colored by who I'd like to have won. France had a very deserved win I can#t deny that.

It doesn't invalidate my point though if you apply it to the tournament as a whole because it highlights issues we'll probably see much more of once VAR has been rolled out to all leagues and tournaments.

With other calls they accounted for VAR. FIFA for example changed the handling of offside due to VAR. The linesmen are asked to signal difficult offsides after the goal attempt has been completed. That's because VAR is allowed to review goals and thus can retroactively call a goal offsides but can't review a wrong offsides call by a lineman that stops an attempt (Additionally that won't make much sense anyway because even if it could, the offsides call would have stopped the flow of the attack anyway)

VAR can only review a simulation attempt if it satisfies one of the criteria that have been defined for VAR reviews: goal/non goal decisions and potential red card offences. So this will most likely only matter to simulation attempts that lead to a penalty. A handball will very likely satisfy one or both of those criteria much more often though given how a deliberate hand ball is supposed to be penalized.

We've already seen lots of VAR-related handball calls at this WC and if this is indicative of a trend we'll probably see a lot more handball calls/non-calls and contests going forward with VAR.

Given how inconsistently the handball rule is applied it's not something I'm particularly looking forward to.
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Reply #168 on: July 16, 2018, 08:53:48 AM

I don't really have a problem with it. On the balance I think VAR at this world cup was a huge success.

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Reply #169 on: July 16, 2018, 09:43:53 AM

That was about as handball as you get, don't see the confusion.

And yeh, Croatia really lacked a cutting edge for most of the tournament. I lost a bit of belief in them after the Denmark game, all the same they showed great character to get to the final.

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Reply #170 on: July 16, 2018, 10:06:10 AM

The confusion in the handball rule probably stems from the word deliberate. The important bit is whether you could have prevented handling the ball by managing your body better in that situation and if you didn't this can be deemed a deliberate act. e.g. If you run around the penalty box waving your arms around the place and the ball hits one of them, you may not have deliberately made contact with the ball but your actions which led to ball hitting your arms were deliberate.

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Reply #171 on: July 16, 2018, 10:52:38 AM

The confusion in the handball rule probably stems from the word deliberate. The important bit is whether you could have prevented handling the ball by managing your body better in that situation and if you didn't this can be deemed a deliberate act. e.g. If you run around the penalty box waving your arms around the place and the ball hits one of them, you may not have deliberately made contact with the ball but your actions which led to ball hitting your arms were deliberate.

The word deliberate is in there because otherwise strikers would just try and hit the extremities of defenders and try to coax penalties out of that.
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Reply #172 on: July 16, 2018, 01:53:36 PM

Guys I have found out something that no one else has reported on.

DID YOU KNOW THAT GARETH SOUTHGATE EVEN ATTENDED AN NBA GAME TO LEARN MORE ABOUT CREATING BETTER SET PIECES??

holy fuck.

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Reply #173 on: July 16, 2018, 02:12:34 PM

Seriously?
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Reply #174 on: July 16, 2018, 02:19:56 PM

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